Hunt proposal, more limited archery units

[Ohthatguy]

Coati's are not listed under the Predatory & Fur-bearing Mammals. 

They are under Other Birds & Mammals.  Commission Order 14

[HuntHarder]

It's crazy how much politics and back door interests there are.  So much dark stuff happens that no one knows about.  

[GreyGhost85]

8 minutes ago, Ohthatguy said:

Coati's are not listed under the Predatory & Fur-bearing Mammals. 

They are under Other Birds & Mammals.  Commission Order 14

That’s what I thought. Don’t see anything anout rabbits, squirrels, prarie dogs or sparrows either

[Delw]

3 hours ago, Desertguide said:

I had the opportunity to sit down with a former Game Branch Chief. I asked him all kinds questions. Supposedly they have some complex mathematical formula they use to determine the total number of bucks, does and fawns based on what they see when they fly. Problem is, they only grid and fly certain areas of a unit... never the entire unit. 

What I've always wondered is how they do aerial surveys in thick country like in the pines. You're telling me they can get a relatively precise count of elk and deer flying over a pine canopy? Horsesh!t. 

Not to mention they pay $1500 per hour to fly. 

Its called a standard. They do the exact same thing on the lakes. this way they have more accurate info over the years how the game and fish species declined or got better. it gives more accurate data doing it this way. if they do everything the same way in the same spots and same time frame its a better way of getting info. While it doesnt make much sense to most people, it makes more sense when its explained and used.

Granted some areas do change, because of loss of habitat its the best way to get a more accurate number. were talking years and years of data from the same places.

 

[Couzer]

30 minutes ago, Ohthatguy said:

Coati's are not listed under the Predatory & Fur-bearing Mammals. 

They are under Other Birds & Mammals.  Commission Order 14

Good eye

[Desertguide]

19 minutes ago, HuntHarder said:

It's crazy how much politics and back door interests there are.  So much dark stuff happens that no one knows about.  

Oh man... talk about politics. We interact with other hunters. Game and Fish has wildlife organizations, ranchers, the USFWS, greenies, greenie groups, OHV people and... hunters all coming at them. They HAVE to be political to deal with that many different interests. Unfortunately they forget that we all just want to hunt and if they would educate us and then work with us... it could be an amazing partnership. The other part of the equation is hunters and their apathy. I swear hunters are the most apathetic group of individuals I've ever encountered. The vast majority only care about their next tag. 

[Desertguide]

4 minutes ago, Delw said:

Its called a standard. They do the exact same thing on the lakes. this way they have more accurate info over the years how the game and fish species declined or got better. it gives more accurate data doing it this way. if they do everything the same way in the same spots and same time frame its a better way of getting info. While it doesnt make much sense to most people, it makes more sense when its explained and used.

Granted some areas do change, because of loss of habitat its the best way to get a more accurate number. were talking years and years of data from the same places.

 

That makes sense. At the same time when I look at a desert unit where deer only live in certain areas and those areas change from year to year... how can they possibly get a solid number if they're flying the same spots year after year? 

[Delw]

Ive worked with g&f alot over the years on alot of fishery stuff. pretty much all of them are top notch people and go out of there way to explain things on the hows and whys for this and that. the problem is the public is generally pigheaded and dont even take the time to understand the hows and whys, the public  just wanna bitch because they feel they were outed and they know best as well as most special interest groups. Of course the public uses the same old bitch line " they dont know what there doing, there only there to make money, they dont care about this or that etc etc Ive seen it all on both the fishing side and the hunting side in the last 40 years, not to mention on the forums in the last 25 years.

[NOTAGS]

9 minutes ago, Desertguide said:

Oh man... talk about politics. We interact with other hunters. Game and Fish has wildlife organizations, ranchers, the USFWS, greenies, greenie groups, OHV people and... hunters all coming at them. They HAVE to be political to deal with that many different interests. Unfortunately they forget that we all just want to hunt and if they would educate us and then work with us... it could be an amazing partnership. The other part of the equation is hunters and their apathy. I swear hunters are the most apathetic group of individuals I've ever encountered. The vast majority only care about their next tag. 

What next tag?   I can’t draw Dick  these days. The OTC deer was my salvation.  I have maintained for years that AZGF could learn from the Navajo GF who will lock you out of the following draw if you don’t report harvest or no kill . GF response to my inquiry regarding mandatory reporting  was they didn’t want to prevent anyone from applying , aka spending $$$.  Bunch of pimps, and we be the hoes.

[Delw]

4 minutes ago, Desertguide said:

That makes sense. At the same time when I look at a desert unit where deer only live in certain areas and those areas change from year to year... how can they possibly get a solid number if they're flying the same spots year after year? 

Its no difference than they lakes. you have to have a basis ie standard to compare your numbers to if you dont your shooting in the wind with guess's

for example went out on  electro shock and gill netting surveys a couple of years on Apache before the die offs. while I thought there numbers and spots were wrong, tournament results proved them to be pretty accurate over the years. I used tourny results as we had many of them on every lake every weekend so you have a vast number of data to compare it with. like wise if you used fishing reports the data was all over the place. which shows that most people Cant fish on good years or bad years so fishing report Data was flawed where as tourny data had better data.

kinda like hunting and forums look how many people cant ever find a deer or elk, then when someone posts they saw 5-10 different bulls a day or a ton of bucks here and there people always call BS, but yet if you look at the hunters who actually hunt hard or fishermen who fish hard they have no problems with seeing game there not complaining and if they are its something to be aware of.

 

[Desertguide]

8 minutes ago, Delw said:

Its no difference than they lakes. you have to have a basis ie standard to compare your numbers to if you dont your shooting in the wind with guess's

for example went out on  electro shock and gill netting surveys a couple of years on Apache before the die offs. while I thought there numbers and spots were wrong, tournament results proved them to be pretty accurate over the years. I used tourny results as we had many of them on every lake every weekend so you have a vast number of data to compare it with. like wise if you used fishing reports the data was all over the place. which shows that most people Cant fish on good years or bad years so fishing report Data was flawed where as tourny data had better data.

kinda like hunting and forums look how many people cant ever find a deer or elk, then when someone posts they saw 5-10 different bulls a day or a ton of bucks here and there people always call BS, but yet if you look at the hunters who actually hunt hard or fishermen who fish hard they have no problems with seeing game there not complaining and if they are its something to be aware of.

 

That makes prefect sense the way you explain it. I wish the individuals at the dept I had conversations with had explained it that way. Thank you

[68OLDS]

All I’ve got to say is make your voice heard, no matter what side of the issue you may happen to be on.  
The fact that they are seeking  public comment and interest on this issue is encouraging.  Now there will be a large contingency that will argue it won’t matter one way or the other since they will do what they want, and they may or may not be right about that.

There were about 170 people on the live webcast tonight.  They did provide a little bit of background and reasoning behind these changes.  I won’t go into detail but basically the three main points are continued drought, Continuing decline over the last few years of buck/fawn to doe ratios, And greater than 20% overall OTC harvest in many units across the state( many units in northern az).  
They showed a couple of Graphs relating to over the counter sales based on resident versus non-resident. It appears that non-residence accounted for about 4500 OTC tags last year.  They also presented a graph showing overall deer harvest and percent success rate.  Bottom line, They will be publishing the new rags in late May or early June and these recommendations will be adopted at that time for the fall hunts.  Make your voice heard and send your comments to them at AZHuntGuidelines@azgfd.gov

[HUNTnTAT2]

Anyone know of a link to view the meeting??  Missed parts of it due to work. I service the public in emergencies.... 

[68OLDS]

3 minutes ago, HUNTnTAT2 said:

Anyone know of a link to view the meeting??  Missed parts of it due to work. I service the public in emergencies.... 

For those who miss the webcast, it will be recorded and available to be viewed at https://www.azgfd.com/Hunting/Guidelines/. Additional comments can be emailed to AZHuntGuidelines@azgfd.gov

 

i don’t think they have posted it yet...and thank you for your service to the public 

[HUNTnTAT2]

2 minutes ago, 68OLDS said:

For those who miss the webcast, it will be recorded and available to be viewed at https://www.azgfd.com/Hunting/Guidelines/. Additional comments can be emailed to AZHuntGuidelines@azgfd.gov

 

i don’t think they have posted it yet...and thank you for your service to the public 

Solid man! Thank you!