I'm out

[azpackhorse]

Redbeard Rocks!!

 

into the books, I would follow the record book rules. I, unlike most of the illeterate people who have responded, realize Viva Redbeard!!!

 

Lifelong AZ hunter,

 

Lance

 

It's spelled Illiterate

 

 

 

 

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

Redbeard Rocks!!

 

into the books, I would follow the record book rules. I, unlike most of the illeterate people who have responded, realize Viva Redbeard!!!

 

Lifelong AZ hunter,

 

Lance

 

It's spelled Illiterate

 

 

Oops!

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

Screw the record books! All of them, B&C, P&Y, and SCI. Just because you follow there rules doesn't mean the rest of us will. Don't hold us to your standards. Since when in life should we start allowing groups and orginizations to dictate what's right or wrong? That is each individuals God given right to choose for themselves. To assume that everyone that hunts will subscribe to the same set of ethics that was set up by the Boon & Crockett Club is crazy!

 

As far as I'm concerned the law sets the minimum bar. If you choose to live a higher standard good for you, but please don't expect me to do the same.

 

How many people here are card carrying members of the B&C or P&Y? Those should be the ones that you're preaching to.

 

I'm not a member, and have no intention of joining.

 

Excellent post, TAM... I agree 100%. I'd like to add something to it, but you pretty much said everything I wanted to!!

 

Boys,

 

I happen to be a "Card Carring Member" of the P&Y Club..... and so as you know, I have no problem with the fact that you are not. But, you gotta know that I am a member and I do support them, not just because I have legitimate trophies listed in thier ranks, but because they help in the fight to preserve this sport that I love. It is more than just legality.... I'm not a religious man, but I do my best not to take God's name in vain...... even though it is perfectly legal to do so.... I just choose to be better than that.... whenever I can, not that I am perfect... That I am NOT!!!

 

Gino, kinda sounded like I was bashin the B&C and P&Y. Didn't mean to come across that way or sound disrespectful to a good orginization! They both do a lot of good out there for hunters, I choose to put my support in other orginizations like the NRA, and the Arizona Deer Association. I can't afford to support them all, but they all do good for our sport in there own way.

 

My point was that I will not allow ANY person, group, or orginization to dictate where I should set my own personal standards. Including those groups that I do support financially or otherwise. It's awfully arrogant for anyone to hold me to there own set of standards. I will define what I consider "fair chase" and I will live by it, but I won't expect anyone else to. I have a couple legitimate animals that I could enter into P&Y, but I just don't care to. Not that I'm against entering them, it's just not my thing.

 

Your point about choosing to be better than that is well taken. We should all be striving to become better people and better hunters. I still stand by my point that the law is the minimum bar for any code of ethics, but over time as we strive to become better perhaps our personal code of ethics will be increased a notch or two? JMO and It's probably not even worth .02

 

I think this one has run its course. I'm bowing out. Thanks Redbeard and everyone else for a enjoyable discussion!

 

 

Thanks, Tim..... I totaly do agree with your last post thanks for clearing that up. And Jason, AZOnecam..... I also totally agree with what you posted!

 

Regardless of which side of the fence you are on this has been a great thread..... Thanks to all who have posted thier POV and thanks for letting me post mine.

 

BTW... Bobbyo..... if yu ever come across one of those "competing pics" like you mentioned with Randy holding a Mathews next to one of these monster mulies from Nevada..... please get it for me cuz I Want that photo!

[HEADACHE]

And do you all think that Randy is the only one who does that??? ha.

no way jose. When it comes down to money and contracts and all that stuff, I'd venture to say that many people bend those grey area rules as well.

 

I'd love to see RU with a big ol buck and a Mathews bow too!!! shoot me one of those pictures!

[bobbyo]

BTW... Bobbyo..... if yu ever come across one of those "competing pics" like you mentioned with Randy holding a Mathews next to one of these monster mulies from Nevada..... please get it for me cuz I Want that photo!

 

IF RANDY used a Mathews it obviously would not be fair chase. One of the best archers in the world with the most accurate, most forgiving on top of being the smoothest and quietest bows ever made. Imagine the uproar!

Bob

[Condor]

On Randy's sheep hunt a while back he used hand signals and no radios and he has used hand signals on several other hunts so he can do it both ways just my .02

[CEI]

I have been a viewer of this forum for some time (years) and this topic finally persuaded me to register.

 

Bottom line :

 

I think you need to do some self evaulation if you are unable to talk freely about your tactics that you used to harvested an animal. By this I mean, if you used radios and you are not ashamed of it, then why try to hide it. That to me is like lying or at least mis-leading because people don't get the whole picture. I believe the same holds true for flying or any other topics you want to throw at it. Some people use radios and some don't (use your scan mode while hunting and it can be entertaining) and it is currently legal but it is breaking the rules, if you enter them into the Fair Chase books.

 

Redbeard, I appreciate your honesty and opinions about this subject. One thing that I will tell you is I also have some strong opinions just like you but remember the only person you can control is yourself. For the rest of us, remember that we are a family and most people don't understand us but at the end of the day we will all stand together to fight those that try to destroy us!

 

FYI- I have used radios but most of the time I don't because they are just a pain in the arse and I also might want to enter him into a book. I am honest about it because I want my integrity to be intact at the end of the day, as that is all you have while you are on this earth!

I will get off my soap box!

 

 

[CouesWhitetail]

Guys,

 

A couple points I would like to make. Please remember that this forum is not to be used to bash anyone. I think Redbeard could have brought up this topic without bringing Randy into question. I am all for a productive discussion about ethics and all, but I would like to point out that Redbeard has said repeatedly that he is making assumptions about use of radios on this and other kills. Apparently Redbeard has some information on some hunts where radios were used, but that is a far cry from knowing that all or most of Randy's kills have been done by radio. I don't think we should assume that Randy hasn't done an archery kill by fair chase rules.

 

I just want to caution everyone not to make statements that can be considered slander against someone in this forum. I have let this thread run because it seemed to me Redbeard was just trying to make a point and a productive discussion followed. However, please remember no one here has all the facts about all his hunts and let's not make broad statements that can hurt someone's reputation.

 

From what I know of Randy is a great guy and an excellent hunter. Let's continue the discussion without attacking him (or Redbeard, or anyone else).

 

Amanda

[HEADACHE]

Guys,

 

A couple points I would like to make. Please remember that this forum is not to be used to bash anyone. I think Redbeard could have brought up this topic without bringing Randy into question. I am all for a productive discussion about ethics and all, but I would like to point out that Redbeard has said repeatedly that he is making assumptions about use of radios on this and other kills. Apparently Redbeard has some information on some hunts where radios were used, but that is a far cry from knowing that all or most of Randy's kills have been done by radio. I don't think we should assume that Randy hasn't done an archery kill by fair chase rules.

 

I just want to caution everyone not to make statements that can be considered slander against someone in this forum. I have let this thread run because it seemed to me Redbeard was just trying to make a point and a productive discussion followed. However, please remember no one here has all the facts about all his hunts and let's not make broad statements that can hurt someone's reputation.

 

From what I know of Randy is a great guy and an excellent hunter. Let's continue the discussion without attacking him (or Redbeard, or anyone else).

 

Amanda

 

 

Well typed Amanda.

 

[GRONG]

Not sure how I missed this enormous topic but I'm almost mad at myself for spending an hour reading it all........

 

 

FWIW. I know for a fact that John McClendon and his army of guides were using radios and cell phones when they killed that big (399") bull in 19A last year. How do I know? Because Grong was there and he told me the story and I talked to the boys in Wal Mart a day or two before they killed it when they were buying more radios because they had more guys coming to help. Funny though when I read the story in Trophy Hunter Magazine there was no mention of this. Why? I hope that hunter doesn't plan to enter the bull in P&Y.

 

Ok that's just downright HILARIOUS!!! Buying more radios cause they had more guys coming to help? WTS is that about?!?!?! When I glassed the bull up we (Stan and I) called Travis and after they had blown the stalk they were working on that morning they hiked into where we were at and we planned the stalk from there. SO, just for the record, there wasn't an "army of guides" out there. Quite the contrary in fact. It was Stan, me, the hunter, Travis and the guy videoing the hunt were the only people there. John McC wasn't even there!! If that's an "army" then I guess that goes along with your off the wall ethics. Who is to say that just cause the "powers that be" in the B&C club have it all together and only their personal choice of ethics is the way to go? Why not ban any and all communication all together when the stalk starts? Radios, cell phones, hand signals, etc etc. Next thing they'll say is that there shouldn't be any sort of wind tester apparati on your bow or whatever cause it's unethical to judge the wind. Give me a break. If it's not against the laws that the G&F have set then who gives a crap? I've used radios for years guiding people into game, some were successful and some weren't. Andy and I chose the ol hand signal route last January and it worked out like a charm on my coues hunt. Had we used radios I could've cared less.

 

Like what was posted a few pages back, I don't look at record books to see whose name is listed as the killer, I look for the amount of points on each antler, gross score etc. I like pictures!! I haven't bought a record book in years cause you only get a few pics and 1000s of scores. I can look in the hunting magazines that come out monthly for all my antler joneses w/o going to the record books.

 

TAM, you rule!!

 

I'm going to bed, my head hurts after reading all this...........

[Kaffer62]

I like the girl in your avatar. She is nice.

[Snapshot]

Grong,

 

Please don't take offense to the "army of guides" comment. It was not directed towards you or any of the other respected guides or outfitters. The comment was based on what we have seen with some outfits, one of which is in AZ and the other famous one is based in Utah/Nevada who does guide high dollar clients with the army of guides and radio technique.

If the client or outfitter chooses to hunt that way that is their business, the client is paying big money and if they want the red carpet rolled out to within shooting range of that trophy buck or bull so be it. Even if I was a millionaire, I would never hunt that way, but that is just me, I like things one on one. Everyone draws there own line in the sand as to what hunting methods are exceptable or not.

The point being, that with the advancement of technology in hunting aids and a society of hunters looking for instant gratification without the hard work and or sacrifice that was used in years past to harvest an animal, I guess it is inevitable progress. I remember the day that all I carried was a canteen, a knife, and maybe a sandwhich. Now my day pack is loaded with so much crap that my shoulders hurt at the end of the day.

I have been a guide and I have been guided(once), and I have seen things from both sides of the fence.

[redline410]

 

 

Lesson #1: Unless you're physically there and see it with your own eyes- odds are, you don't know Jack as being fact.

 

Nothing like making accusations on heresay and rumor........I'm pretty sure MSNBC is looking for reporters with that very skillset.

[coues7]

In my opinion this is the perfect example of how CW.com is turning into Monstermuleys.com......which is just a sick, back biting, belittling, pissing match forum. I don't even enjoy getting on CW.com anymore......its seems that the majority of what goes on here is pissing matches, people being critical of others and members having personal converstations back and forth on an open forum.....we do have PM and email you know?

 

These forums are the perfect example of why we as a "hunting community" will continue to get our a$$es kicked by the anti-hunting folks. We would just a soon piss and moan about and with each other as doing something productive and enjoying the sport we all love.

 

Flame away!!!!!!!!

[AZ402]

Ahh, now I see I'm somehow involved in this annoying thread. I'll respond later when I'm a little less aggravated.