I'm out

[Kilimanjaro]

Screw the record books! All of them, B&C, P&Y, and SCI. Just because you follow there rules doesn't mean the rest of us will. Don't hold us to your standards. Since when in life should we start allowing groups and orginizations to dictate what's right or wrong? That is each individuals God given right to choose for themselves. To assume that everyone that hunts will subscribe to the same set of ethics that was set up by the Boon & Crockett Club is crazy!

 

As far as I'm concerned the law sets the minimum bar. If you choose to live a higher standard good for you, but please don't expect me to do the same.

 

How many people here are card carrying members of the B&C or P&Y? Those should be the ones that you're preaching to.

 

I'm not a member, and have no intention of joining.

 

 

Excellent post, TAM... I agree 100%. I'd like to add something to it, but you pretty much said everything I wanted to!!

 

[BASS]

From this thread I have learned a few things:

 

almost everybody on cw.com uses radios and doesn't have a problem with it. (except Dryfly who apparently thinks it is very offensive

 

Actually there was another who doesn't use them.

 

 

Only 'cause you have no friends to talk to!

 

 

 

Anyone who has actually tried to use radios (not these expensive high tech police grade, repeater bouncing Motorolas, I'm talking Garmin Rhinos, Talk-Abouts etc.) know they are all but useless 90% of the time here in Az. Heck I've been on the next ridge trying to talk to someone and can't get a clear line of communication. Drop down into draw and the line is completly severed. Besides, all people do is scan the channels looking for your animal. *stir the pot*

[BOHNTR]

Only 'cause you have no friends to talk to!

 

Ouch! Now BASS I thought you were a friend......why if I found out you weren't my friend I don't know if I could stand it.

[BASS]

Only 'cause you have no friends to talk to!

 

Ouch! Now BASS I thought you were a friend......why if I found out you weren't my friend I don't know if I could stand it.

 

 

You prolly couldn't stand me as a friend.

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

Screw the record books! All of them, B&C, P&Y, and SCI. Just because you follow there rules doesn't mean the rest of us will. Don't hold us to your standards. Since when in life should we start allowing groups and orginizations to dictate what's right or wrong? That is each individuals God given right to choose for themselves. To assume that everyone that hunts will subscribe to the same set of ethics that was set up by the Boon & Crockett Club is crazy!

 

As far as I'm concerned the law sets the minimum bar. If you choose to live a higher standard good for you, but please don't expect me to do the same.

 

How many people here are card carrying members of the B&C or P&Y? Those should be the ones that you're preaching to.

 

I'm not a member, and have no intention of joining.

 

Excellent post, TAM... I agree 100%. I'd like to add something to it, but you pretty much said everything I wanted to!!

 

Boys,

 

I happen to be a "Card Carring Member" of the P&Y Club..... and so as you know, I have no problem with the fact that you are not. But, you gotta know that I am a member and I do support them, not just because I have legitimate trophies listed in thier ranks, but because they help in the fight to preserve this sport that I love. It is more than just legality.... I'm not a religious man, but I do my best not to take God's name in vain...... even though it is perfectly legal to do so.... I just choose to be better than that.... whenever I can, not that I am perfect... That I am NOT!!!

 

[huntnaz]

Then again I don't have any hunting buddies so I'd be wasting my time with radios.

 

 

WOW I DIDNT SEE THAT COMING!! Going by the way you like to judge and criticize people i Figured you would have tons of friend that would want to hang out and spend there valuable hunting time with you...

[AZLance]

Redbeard Rocks!!

 

Thank you Redbeard for everything you have given to hunting in AZ. I am proud to call you my friend!

 

I use radios, I use game cameras, I use rangefinders, I have flown in a plane looking for animals, and now my latest toy is a thermal imaging scope made by Raytheon that can see a deer at night over 5 miles away. I can actually count points at 2 miles...

 

But Redbeard, as you know, I am not interested in entering anything in the books. If I was going to enter something into the books, I would follow the record book rules. I, unlike most of the illiterate people who have responded, realize that you were not saying that it was immorale to use my electronic gadgets, it was just against the rules if I planned to enter the animal in the record books.

 

So obviously, no offense taken on my end! I can READ!

 

Viva Redbeard!!!

 

Lifelong AZ hunter,

 

Lance

[AZLance]

sdrhunter,

 

Are you not calling Redbeard out on a public forum??

 

sdrhunter wrote: "why do you have to "call" him out on a public form. you could probably ask him yourself either through email, in person, or phone if you really wanted to."

 

Well, sdrhunter, have you e-mailed Redbeard? Have you called Redbeard? Or have you talked to him in person?

 

Follow your own advice!

[billrquimby]

Seems to me that the flap over radios is much ado about nothing.

 

In a book I ghost wrote for an international sheep hunter, the author told about hunting Rocky Mountain bighorn sheep in an area where hunters cannot legally possess radios.

 

The outfitter got around the law by having the guy manning the spotting scope carry a set of large flash cards. The guide and client were furnished a sheet telling what each card meant. If the spotter held up a card with a "T," another with a "B," another with a "S", and another with a "11", for example, it meant "trophy ram bedded south of you, 11 o'clock on the hill." The guide and hunter kept checking the spotter's cards with their binos as they moved up to the ram.

 

A sophisticated code of hand signals would get the same results.

 

Didn't sailors wave flags to "talk" between ships before radios came along?

 

What is considered ethical varies from region to region. In southern Africa, for example, local sport hunters consider it highly highly unethical to shoot an animal anywhere near water. (I cannot repeat what they say about visiting bowhunters who shoot thirsty game from blinds at waterholes.) Some even claim it is unethical to bait for leopards and lions. A hunter is supposed to track his game on foot and not hide and ambush it, they say.

 

Bill Quimby

[TAM]

Screw the record books! All of them, B&C, P&Y, and SCI. Just because you follow there rules doesn't mean the rest of us will. Don't hold us to your standards. Since when in life should we start allowing groups and orginizations to dictate what's right or wrong? That is each individuals God given right to choose for themselves. To assume that everyone that hunts will subscribe to the same set of ethics that was set up by the Boon & Crockett Club is crazy!

 

As far as I'm concerned the law sets the minimum bar. If you choose to live a higher standard good for you, but please don't expect me to do the same.

 

How many people here are card carrying members of the B&C or P&Y? Those should be the ones that you're preaching to.

 

I'm not a member, and have no intention of joining.

 

Excellent post, TAM... I agree 100%. I'd like to add something to it, but you pretty much said everything I wanted to!!

 

Boys,

 

I happen to be a "Card Carring Member" of the P&Y Club..... and so as you know, I have no problem with the fact that you are not. But, you gotta know that I am a member and I do support them, not just because I have legitimate trophies listed in thier ranks, but because they help in the fight to preserve this sport that I love. It is more than just legality.... I'm not a religious man, but I do my best not to take God's name in vain...... even though it is perfectly legal to do so.... I just choose to be better than that.... whenever I can, not that I am perfect... That I am NOT!!!

 

Gino, kinda sounded like I was bashin the B&C and P&Y. Didn't mean to come across that way or sound disrespectful to a good orginization! They both do a lot of good out there for hunters, I choose to put my support in other orginizations like the NRA, and the Arizona Deer Association. I can't afford to support them all, but they all do good for our sport in there own way.

 

My point was that I will not allow ANY person, group, or orginization to dictate where I should set my own personal standards. Including those groups that I do support financially or otherwise. It's awfully arrogant for anyone to hold me to there own set of standards. I will define what I consider "fair chase" and I will live by it, but I won't expect anyone else to. I have a couple legitimate animals that I could enter into P&Y, but I just don't care to. Not that I'm against entering them, it's just not my thing.

 

Your point about choosing to be better than that is well taken. We should all be striving to become better people and better hunters. I still stand by my point that the law is the minimum bar for any code of ethics, but over time as we strive to become better perhaps our personal code of ethics will be increased a notch or two? JMO and It's probably not even worth .02

 

I think this one has run its course. I'm bowing out. Thanks Redbeard and everyone else for a enjoyable discussion!

[CouesWhitetail]

Seems to me that the flap over radios is much ado about nothing.

 

In a book I ghost wrote for an international sheep hunter, the author told about hunting Rocky Mountain bighorn sheep in an area where hunters cannot legally possess radios.

 

The outfitter got around the law by having the guy manning the spotting scope carry a set of large flash cards. The guide and client were furnished a sheet telling what each card meant. If the spotter held up a card with a "T," another with a "B," another with a "S", and another with a "11", for example, it meant "trophy ram bedded south of you, 11 o'clock on the hill." The guide and hunter kept checking the spotter's cards with their binos as they moved up to the ram.

 

A sophisticated code of hand signals would get the same results.

 

Didn't sailors wave flags to "talk" between ships before radios came along?

 

What is considered ethical varies from region to region. In southern Africa, for example, local sport hunters consider it highly highly unethical to shoot an animal anywhere near water. (I cannot repeat what they say about visiting bowhunters who shoot thirsty game from blinds at waterholes.) Some even claim it is unethical to bait for leopards and lions. A hunter is supposed to track his game on foot and not hide and ambush it, they say.

 

Bill Quimby

 

 

 

Thanks for the info Bill. Sounds like a pretty good system with those flashcards. And i think a lot of people not just in Africa, think that baiting and shooting animals at waterholes is unethical.

 

Amanda

 

[Coach]

Once again, "fair chase" is a subjective term much like "ethics". I don't think it's right to say that anybody who uses radios doesn't believe in "fair chase" just because their definition doesn't correspond verbatim with B&C or P&Y. There are other things that those clubs might consider "fair chase" that many hunters don't agree with. This week it's radios, two months ago it was salt and trail cams - and of course there's the ongoing "foodplot" debate. It's OK by B&C if I sit in a heated blind and shoot a buck from 750 yards on a pre-patterned food plot with a "beanfield" rifle, but stalking to within 30 yards of a coues deer in open desert country with a longbow or any bow for that matter, with help from a buddy on a radio isn't fair chase? You tell me, how does one of those qualify as "fair chase" while the other does not - in your own words - not a club's bylaws.

[KGAINES]

I think anyone who is a public figure is going to draw criticism at some point, the more famous you are the more criticism you receive. I have stated before that if it is legal and the person that does it feels good about, in reality that is all that matters. If there is enough outcry for something done there will be punishment be it monetarily or just being shunned by followers. One thing though if there is enough complaining going on about certain tactics, and the success there of the game and fish will be more than happy to pass more laws and restrict hunters even more, I can only live by the rules set in the regulations and my own personal beliefs.

[DesertBull]

Dang...this is messed UP!

 

To each his own.

[bobbyo]

Dang i have been hunting and miss 4 pages. My comments.

 

1. Randy is a public figure and of coarse it is ok to call him out in a public forum. Open Cabela's there is Randy with a big Nevada deer and a Cabela's t-shirt " that I have wore for three years." He uses these deer to sell Archery s---. Be like Randy, shoot a deer like Randy. Buy the s--- he promotes in the magazine. He is selling a false image. He could kill a deer with any brand of bow, any brand of broadhead and any kind of arrow. In fact on kills he takes pictures with multiple product placements from competing brands. Picture with three different bows ect. If he was trully honest and wanted the average Joe to have the success that he has, maybe he should come out with his own signature brand: The Randy Ulmer Radio, The Randy Ulmer Chute plane. He writes articles telling us nimrods how to hunt, but he never mentions these other tactics. But I guess it is just business.

 

2. Redbeard, Now I see the whole reason for this discussion is to slip another picture of your dump bull into a thread. You are darn sneaky .

 

3.I think there are many on this sight that are too sensitive and overreact to a difference of opinion.

 

Bob