Coues 'n' Sheep

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

Is getting a guide a good Idea? Sure. Is going DYI a good idea? Sure. I'd worry about what you are gunna do after you draw the tag. Also... keep in mind what is cheaper? Purchasing Lots of gas and the logistics of an Arizona Safari or pay someone else to handle it? Bet you find it very comparable. But is the cost worth it? Hells Yeah! It is an opportunity of a life time! Do you really want to to look back at all those years of not having a rifle tag in you pocket and say, " I shoulda..." or "I'm glad I did it!!"... Whether you go DYI or the Outfitted method... just Do It!! You'll likely not get a chance to have that many points again! Also... keep in mind what your expectations are... I saw pics recently (think it was a thread here) where a couple of boys took very small, young deer on a Strip hunt, deer that they could have shot in most units accross the state. But even a hard hunting DYI hunter can expect to shoot a 180"plus buck in the strip, and if that is good enough for you then great! But those 220" plus deer are not behind every tree so if that is what you want from all those bonus points than spend the $$$ and have a ball! Good Luck!!

That is one helluva COUES buck! try to play the wind so that you minimise the area lost to being smelled by the deer... a pop up blind will really help hold your sent and also cover your movement better than a brush blind. Good Luck! This is why they call it hunting and not killing! You may not see that buck again till march if he leaves to go a-ruttin'... and if he has busted you once, he will bust you every time, it is what they do for a living. Again, best of luck, hope to see the kill photos posted on here soon!

Well for the record I only quietly shake my head after shot #3 in a row.... and never stomp or swear about it. I think there is a lot to reflect about in the posts of this thread. Points that I really think sum it up are these: Educate Practice Stick together Support all forms of Legal hunting We all make mistakes "Crap" happens to all of us Jealousy & Envy have no place in hunting Know your limits... and stay with in them Know your equipment and stay with in its limitations Please don't be a SLOB! Do what works for YOU not what works for others To those that have mentioned that an shot over 400 yards is (more or less) lazy, unethical, un-sporting, and so on... I respect your point view. However, you have no real grasp on some of the topography and vegetations that some great trophies live in. Many place I hunt require two people (a spotter and a ground pounder) just to find a downed animal over 200 yds away. Have you ever walked circles around a coues deer,bear, or even a large bull elk for for 30 minutes to an hour saying, "I know it is RIGHT here!"... If you can't find it dead at Point Blank Range, how can you get that close for a clean shot??? My point is there is a time and a place for getting close and there is a time for taking a shot at distance. To say there is only "one way" is a farce. Lobo made a great point in my mind... He said that he is very comfortable making running shots. I am not comfortable with running shot nor will I try one. I am comfortable with shots under 600 yds if the conditions permit and I cannot get closer. We both have one common fear with the hunter that will only take a 300 yd (and in) shot... and that is, "what if?" Anything can go wrong at any distance! I have had coues jump my string at 14 yards!!! There are pleny of "what if's" out there and that is NOT what this thead is about... it is about making the call... being the adult and saying, "This is not good", "I'm not certain this is do-able from here", "I think we should try to get closer", "He wins today, we got beat"....etc. This is about being able to Man Up and know ones limitations! Knowing your TRUE limitaions solves the "ethics" question all in one instant.... and the proof will be in the outcome. Period...and we will still lose from time to time and battle within our own mind as to "did I choose wrong?"... but over all the woods will be better if we can just learn to say "NO!" once in a while. IMO anyhow. Merry Christmas to you all!

C, It is also has to do with the components (parts) of the gun and how they were put together, as well...some guns are shooters right out of the box, others require a little work to perform... one 7mm-08 might not be as accurate as the next and same with the 30-06's. You would have to shoot several of both caliber, and maker to get a really good test. However you would do well to show and test the drop of the 2 calibers when zero'd at say 100 or 200 yards and shooting out to say 500 by using a sheet of ply wood. Good Luck! ...and Merry Christmas, Kiddo!

I'll have to disagree... there is a time and place for just about all types and styles of hunting. Art Young and Saxon Pope and Fred Bear harvested many, many trophy animals at 100+ yds with a stick and string. Three of the most acclaimed archery hunters of all time and they were gods with bows in their hands… an extension of their arms… they practiced, and practiced, and practiced. There are many places that I have hunted where you shoot it from right HERE or you simply just don’t shoot… it does not, however, happen every time. I love getting close… my closest archery coues was 12 yds. and my furthest rifle kill is my lion this year at 525… I can tell you I am far more proud of the 12 yarder, but would do the 525 yarder without a doubt a 100 times again if the chance arose. I do think that with each 100 yards past 300 you have to take on a bunch more responsibility and be able to make the call: Shoot or Don’t Shoot. Wind, rest, shooter, can we get closer… all things that must be weighed and measured. I can think of several different ways that I have hunted in different environments with a bow or a rifle and they are all AWESOME! They are all hunting and they all test a different part of me as a hunter. There has never been a type of hunting I have done that I would not do again… there are some methods that I prefer to others. I am sure we each have our own favorite… just like we have a favorite rifle. You don’t suppose we would have a need for different calibers of rifle if we all hunted the same way? I love my Winchester 3030… I killed my first elk with it at about a 125 yds… but today I usually grab my 300 wby mag…. and mostly for the BC and the ability to buck a little wind. I learned a lot about a “little” wind back when I used to carry my model 700, 22-250 for coues…. Anything over 250 had drift in a breeze… so I hung her up and the rest is history. But there are places and times that I’d not hesitate to bust out my ol’ 3030 for coues if the time and place warranted it. It is all hunting… it is all good hunting… but where we lose our way is when we think that there is only one way. Having the proper equipment is a must (IMHO) if you intend to ethically break the 400 yd mark… Even if you zero a factory loaded 180 gr Barnes X out of 300 Wby @ 300yds you have hold over to center punch a bull elk… how big is the chest on that bull? Well a big mature bull should be 30” at the withers… a rag horn obviously much less. How much do we hold over? What are we judging our inches against? All good questions. I have done the “hold over” method… I’ve won and lost… but always recovered. But it was ethically not my best choice, so that is why I share my thoughts about it with you. The “dial-up” method of the new scopes is awesome and repeatable…. But many, many hours go into that and being proficient requires all the point put forth by 308Nut ( Nice post Mike!)… What this post is about is thinking about what we do before we do it… about supporting and educating our future hunters and those new to the outdoors. It is not about pointing fingers, cuz I can point a few at myself (and if you can’t your lying to yourself)…. It is about bettering our community one better choice at a time. Thanks to all the posters you guys rock! Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!!

Sweet! Good Times! Congrats!

In lieu of an angry phone call I got about one of my examples sounding like someone in particular… Sorry… I know a lot of people and hear a lot of hunting stories… none of the examples of poor ethics were of people close to me. However, I too, am working each year on refining my personal ethics and becoming a better hunter, and encourage you all to do the same. Sorry if anyone wishes to take what was written in my first post as an accusation. This Thread is meant to be food for thought not a finger pointing.

Well I am very happy that so many are also bugged by our ethics of today. Lark, Tony, and all the rest not one post in this thread (so far) has an untrue word in it... Well said by all, and Thank you. WE need to work harder to educate ourselves, and our hunting family/friends... WE need to discuss amongst ourselves... and WE need to spread morality and good ethics where ever we can... I believe we can close the ranks in doing so, IMO. I am a huge supporter of LR hunting tactics and practices, however, I also support common sense (and using common sense). We need to help each other find that middle of the road to avoid bouncing off the ditches. As mentioned once or twice in this thread there are several point that need addressed among hunters, and people in general. It is not only Hunters that are Slobs in the woods, but that is another Thread all together. What I mean by this on is that it is just One point which we MUST pay attention to… we don’t need more laws, or guidelines… we need education and discussion… civil and constructive discussion. We need to promote cognitive thought in our fellow hunters and promote high higher regard for these animals we hunt… They are meat, they are a renewable resource, they are the very fabric of our lives… without them all of this means nothing… they are the root of our passion… WE should regard them as such. Again, Thank You All… and please continue to talk about this, it is important.

Good for you, man! Don't weaken! The best is yet to come!!! Wait till Christmas before you pull the trigger and you will likely be rewarded.... unless a No Brainer steps out before then....

Congrats to you on a Great Ram! Looks like one heck of an adventure! Also wondering if they have a lion problem or something else... too many pickup heads IMO.... Shame to see such good rams waisted.... Congrats a successful Hunt of a Lifetime!!!

Yup same Ram...TOAD! Last I heard this Ram was headed to Chris Harlow's shop....

Scotty! What more can a guy say.. that Fantastic!! Congrats to you on the Dugga Boy and your buddy on a GREAT Bag... the pics made me long for Zim!! How is the outfit you hunted with compaired to LEMCO?? ...in cost and quality both? It looks like it is well managed, just curious. Congrats again!! Thanks for sharing! ...and Merry Christmas!

Beauty of a ram and a huge congrats to you!

Passing it off on a friend??? Really??? Bah HaHaHa!! Leave us out of your personal life Pal! Poor lil' Goats....

Jeremy from Chasin' a Dream Outfitters has been out everyday of both hunts. In the first hunt they put 3 bulls on the ground and on this second hunt his Wife (Kristy) shot a bull that is over 330" broken and likely 345"-350" if not broke. I found the bull Tuesday morning and after 2 stalks and 10 hours (no other hunters) and a single shot at 170 yds the bull took a Dirt Nap! It was a short pack but in the dark and the pics did not turn out that great, but hopefully they will post them and a story soon!! Thanks To Jeremy and Kristy for letting me be a part of the hunt!! I also agree that there, have been WAY too many people in the woods week after week in these units.... and that the elk quality as well as the hunt quallity/enjoyability is suffering. ... oh and the Stupid $hit some of these tagholders (and their Entourage's) do is just pathetic.... we are our own worst enemies....

I could not bare to open this thread last night.... and did so this morning. My wife and I had eyes welled with tears and cracking voices as I shared this tragity with her. We can not find the words.... but our thoughts and prayers are with the entire Webb family in these darkest days. The Wullkotte's

Congrats, my Friend... You put a lot of work and heart into this hunt.... and you all were rewarded! Fantastic Ram!

I saw the pics first by email and had a number in my head then... Great bull... simply great from a unit that AZGF had also way over hunted.... what a great memories. Congrats again... Can I get the score PM'd to me???

Congrats, my friend! You have had a great month!!! BTW... where are G's pics??? His is the only one I've not seen!

My wife saw a lone wolf... unmistakeably larger than a coyote... at the intersection of the Young road and Hwy 260 3 Dec. ago... they are around... and they are bad news for us all.

Awesome! Congrats to Dave! Glad he scored!

Nice Bull. Congrats!

Great Bull! Congrats!!

Congrats on the bucks!