bobbyo

If you are using sabots one thing to remember they are all not the exact same size for a particular caliber sabot. There is slight differences. Which will shoot significantly different. My ML only likes one kind. I believe there are only three propriety manufactures of sabots (probably old info) and all the bullet manufactures buy from them to put in their packages. Once I figured out which sabot my gun liked ( 2 year process of frustration) I could get many different bullets to group. Check these sites out for some help. Randy Wakeman has written more than any other person on the web about ML. He is an arrogant bastard and really pushes his own sponsors, but he does give a lot of valuable info on ML http://www.chuckhawks.com/sabot_bullet_guide.htm http://www.chuckhawks.com/barnes_bullet_for_muzzleloader.htm http://www.chuckhawks.com/index2h.muzzleloader.htm Bob

Unless you have a muzzlebrake I'm not sure if the ultra mag will stand upright. The heavy Bogen, may be the right medicine. I would love to see any pics of bucks you or your buddy's shot with the $1.50 tags. I get a kick out of seeing that. Was it like Nevada back then where body weight of the deer counted more than antler size.

Scotty, 110 in pellets is equal to 88 grains of loose powder. I use loose powder because you have more variability. Some claim they get a better burn with pellets due to the hole in the center. I have never noticed a difference. You should experiment. A suggestion would be to start with 90 grain loose. It should group right where your 110 pellets are shooting. Besides you can buy cool looking gunpowder flask and brass measure thingy. Us loose guys look down on the pellet wieners. We are just cooler. Bob

Why is it always, Rage or Fixed, There are plenty of good mechanicals that will not deploy in your quiver. 15 dollars a broadhead! Why not melt gold and attach it to your arrow. Rage is the most overhyped head yet. If you want to use mechanicals try rocket steel heads they win penetration tests against fixed blade all the time and the exit wound will look like the rage"s entry wound. The key with the stealheads is you will likely have an exit wound not too sure about the rage. If interested I know a web dealer that will sell you a pack of 12 for the price of 4 Rage's. If my math is right that is three times cheaper, but the TV guys don't use them. Bob

Kent I would love to pack in with you. I have had the good fortune to hunt Bulls twice in unit 22 and the Rim area has to be one of the most beautiful in the world. Trouble is although i have spent maybe 10 days on the ground in the unit I did not see many Whitetail! The only Buck i saw was a world class Mule. The only Coues was a couple does, the Fan Tail variety. For the life of me I can't figure out why there is so many tags issued or why they are so desirable in that unit. Maybe the reason is that everyone I know in Payson has an impressive collection of 100 inch deer. No I think I will pass on 22. I am not happy unless I come back from a hunt looking like I had a fight with 20 house cats. For me, cactus and cat claw have to be on the agenda. I do like your generosity though and if you ever get skunked on getting a tag I could possibly point you and your pack train in the right direction if you get a left over tag down south. Bob

Wow, i didn't even notice the fish cut outs until you mentioned it. Kind of neat. do they dampen sound as well as cut weight out of the riser. Bob

Awesome! Lets have a Coues Whitetail get together in unit 22. Archery only. I could bring 10 or 11 guys and sure we will car pool. Maybe Coues and Sheep or Game hauler can put us up. Thanks for the generous offer guys. Just give us your cell nunbers and we will call you when we are on our way. Promise not to eat too much can't guarantee about the drink though! When is opening day again? Bob PS. nlacost, You are doing a real solid. We need more of that spirit around here. Great deer. I didn't seem to get one of those color coordinated maps though. Kent so you are saying you are going to pack in me and my carpool buddies? Just kidding Coues and Sheep have us covered. Really there is nothing wrong with the other 95% of hunters. Lets face it we are psychos. Many people would not consider it a good time to pack in (out of cell phone range) and glass seemingly lifeless hills for 12 hours a day. The 5% that call this fun might be the one's that require help .

Holy cow what is the brace height on that puppy 4". Better get one of those old school arm guard thingys. I can hear the slap now. Remember the mathews MQ 32. DID you know the brace height was 8"!!!!! Sure this one probably shoots 50 FPS faster, but at least you don't have to wear one of those arm guard deally's. Catch me if you can, Bob

Isn't it sacrilegious to put a religious symbol on a commercial product? Buy my Jesus endorsed bows. Its better than Chuck's and Randy's. Bob

Awesome! Lets have a Coues Whitetail get together in unit 22. Archery only. I could bring 10 or 11 guys and sure we will car pool. Maybe Coues and Sheep or Game hauler can put us up. Thanks for the generous offer guys. Just give us your cell nunbers and we will call you when we are on our way. Promise not to eat too much can't guarantee about the drink though! When is opening day again? Bob PS. nlacost, You are doing a real solid. We need more of that spirit around here. Great deer. I didn't seem to get one of those color coordinated maps though.

Why change from the Whisker Biscuit?

Just do what I do. E scout! Sure you will get some criticism, but you have to have a sense of humor. Here is my favorite method. Sign up as a newbie. make sure it is your first post. Write, "I don't have time to scout but want to know where to hunt in unit so and so. Not looking for trophy areas but a good place to hunt maybe close to a road." Let a bunch of the regulars slam you. Wait for at least ten. Then write back apologizing for bothering everyone and just let slip that the reason you can't scout is you are coming back from your second tour in Afghanistan and you have to spend a few weeks rehabbing in Bethesda MD. getting shrapnel out of your brain and leg and such, but should be ready to go for the hunt. Apologize again for bothering everyone. I guarantee you will not only get specific spots to hunt, you will also get pictures of specific deer with directions to their haunts! As a bonus you will even get some risque pictures of some hunting experts daughter as a possible guide and maybe even some pictures of their wife. Good luck, Bob

900' apartment two elk. 8' ceilings. Where are you going to sleep. Mount it and keep it at my house. i have plenty of room. Bob

Boy what a bunch of boy scouts on this site. It's the law. Follow the rules. All officers are saints. All law breakers need to punished yada yada yada. Why can't John vent a little. Really what would of been wrong with a warning? Why are you guys so penal? Maybe it is because you are also anal. You all know there is two kinds of law enforcement officers, those that enforce the spirit of the law and those that enforce the letter. The former do there job and are a credit to their profession the latter are control freaks who seek out positions of authority to replace some deep seeded psychological problem. They love busting people to feel a sense of power. Maybe they were picked on in middle school or could never satisfy a women or man, not quite sure which, I will let Freud figure it out. If you are a law enforcement officer and you are reading it you know exactly what I am talking about. You probably even have a picture of someone in your mind as you were reading it. Let's be honest most of us would of been mad also if we were treated like John. Bob P.S. Hey JohnnyB. thanks for taking care of that on the other site. I owe you.

Does the 345 grains on the arrow include BH/Fld tip weight. I assume it does. I LIKE USING AN ARROW OVER 400 GRAINS. EASIER ON BOW, QUIETER, LESS VIBRATION AND MORE ke WHICH SHOULD INCREASE PENETRATION.yES IT WILL BE SLOWER.

Huntwithme2, I am not the ethics police. I take long range shots with bow and centerfire rifle, but i would not take a shot at an elk at 200 yards with a ML. You are basically shooting a pistol bullet that has the ballistics of a 44 magnum rifle. Would that be your choice on a center fire rifle elk hunt? The good news is you will probably have a shot under 100 yards. THis is why it is so hard to draw a tag. Just find the load that shoots accurately and don't worry about amount of powder ect. Practice practice practice. If I had your tag (really jealous by the way) I would expect to get with in 75 yards of an elk, so i would sight in dead on at a 100. I would pass up shots past 125 just because in most circumstances you should be able to get closer. Remember you are likely only to have one shot and an ELK is tough! My buddy shot a spike elk 9 times with a 300 short mag at under 200 yards before it went down. Maybe in a few circumstances like across a deep canyon I would take a 150 yarder, but it would have to be broadside with a steady rest, no wind yada yada yada. Did I mention I was jealous. Good luck, Bob

Webber, I have that exact same gun. You can use 150 grain in pellets, but only 120 grain in loose powder. Why? you might ask. Well it is great American marketing. The so called 150 grain in pellets are really only 120 grains of Pyro or 777. It is really only 150 grain Black powder equivalent. I use 100 grain loose which is equal to 125 grain in pellet. Confused? Dont worry about it. If you use pellets 3 pellets equaling 50 grains is your max. (a real big boom and kick). If you use loose powder 120 grain max. Hopefully your gun is not as finicky as mine. It will only shoot Nosler sabots well. I know Nosler probably does not make them, but I can't figure out who they contract with. So I try to find Nosler sabots. (beige color). Not easy. I will try to find web site I got mine. Look at the post That Tam has on here to see what works with my gun. My set up. Nosler sabots hornaday xtp 265 grain. 100 grain 777 loose. CLP oil 410 gauge, primer Clean with 50% mixture of windex and water. I do not use bore butter! I have tried to get the faster SST'S to work, but my gun just likes the slower xtp's. Have used all forms of power belts ect. Gun just likes those sabots and xtps.

THe more twist the more stable the arrow will be in flight. The trade off is more noise and slightly slower arrow. You have to take in consideration your rest and type of broadhead you are using. If you have a drop away no worries. Twist away. If you are using mechanicals straight should be fine. If you are using fixed the twist(helical or offset) i would have offset proportional to my cutting diameter. Meaning the bigger the cutting diameter the greater the offset. I think you would do great with most 100 grain fixed blade with 4 degree offset.

It took me 4 pictures to figure out who it was. You Cliffrose junky. I had my all time best post right before you left too bad it got yanked. Man, I wish I saved a copy. Where have you been been. Probably taking a kid hunting.What ever happened to those furry handled pistols? Bob

Tam, Keep the pictures coming. Really this section gets so little use it could be basically a yearbook for your hunt. Your muzzleloader is not capable of shooting MODERN SMOKELESS POWDER, so I do not see how you could get a ticket for any black powder substitute in your gun. Below is straight from encore manual. USE ONLY BLACK POWDER OR AN APPROVED BLACK POWDER SUBSTITUTE SUCH AS PYRODEX® TO LOAD YOUR MUZZLELOADING FIREARM. Never use even small amounts of smokeless powder, even if it is black in color. The use of any other propellant may cause injury or death to the shooter or bystanders and damage to property. • NEVER SMOKE WHILE USING YOUR MUZZLELOADER NEVER USE SMOKELESS POWDER OF ANY TYPE OR IN ANY QUANTITY IN A MUZZLELOADING FIREARM, AND NEVER MIX POWDERS. The use of any smokeless powder could result in a detonation or explosion which could cause injury and/or death to the shooter or bystanders and damage to property

I know nothing about muzzleloaders. I don't have one, never even shot one. During casual conversation, though, with a guy who shoots them a lot, he told me that smokeless powder was illegal to use while hunting?? Don't know if it is true or not, but I thought I would just throw it out there for you. Might be something to look into. I only mention it, because when he told me, I remember thinking to myself that I didn't even know there was a difference. Thanks Blake. Can anyone clarify this? The Buckhorn Powder is a black powder substitute. I believe it would be legal. The savage ML is capable of using regular smokeless powder that you would use in your 300 RUM. My gun is not able to shoot this kind, so I don't know the legalities. I believe your gun can only shoot a blackpowder substitute also, so I would not worry about it. Keep posting the antelope pictures please. It is getting me fired up. Bob

Can view online results. Bonus points are not updated.

Bob, I do not know if you saw or heard about this, but UT changed this year. Being able to put in for more species may be nice, but the efffect is not. http://www.huntingreport.com/Lance-Staplet....cfm?post_id=14 Doug~RR Doug did not know that. Revenue generation seems to take the place of fairness. I really do think that my proposal to copy the old Utah system has a better chance of spreading the joy for hard to get hunts. Wouldn't most people be happy to have one great "premium" tag a year or at the least every other year . I think it would be the fairest policy for all. I have been incredibly lucky in Arizona's draw system. I study the draw odds like a final exam. I put in for the hunts that have the highest chance for draw. All the units I draw may not have premium animals. In a 15 year period, I would rather hunt 6A bull elk 3 times, then just once for unit 9. That is my choice. Still under the Arizona system my drawing success has far exceeded the odds. I would be for change to make it more fair to all hunters, but realistically, when has a govt agency ever been able to deliver fairness. Bob

Tam, Terry's right, every muzzle loader is finicky. It will take you time and lots of different bullets to find the one your gun likes. Even brand of sabots matter. My gun only likes one brand of sabots. Instead of preformed pellets. I use loose triple 777 powder. The cost is half the price and well real men use loose powder, so there. With the loose you can very your load infinitely to see what your gun likes. With pellets you are limited. The pellets are rated as blackpowder equivalent so when someone says they are using 150 grain in pellets that just means 150 grain Black powder equivalent. In loose powder 150 grain pellets = 120 grains of loose powder in 777 or pyrodex. 150 in pellets and 120 loose is the maximum recommended in most smoke poles. I can shoot sub 2" groups at 100 yards with a fowled barrel and a swab in between. My set up. Nosler sabots hornaday xtp 265 grain. 100 grain 777 loose. CLP oil 410 gauge, primer Clean with 50% mixture of windex and water. I do not use bore butter! I have tried to get the faster SST'S to work, but my gun just likes the slower xtp's. Have used all forms of power belts ect. Gun just likes those sabots and xtps. Practice on Jack rabbits. It is a lot of fun and you will get to know your gun in hunting situations. There is many many ways to screw up a shot with a ML in the heat of the hunt.(I think I have done them all.). The more experience the better.

Doug one thing Utah does to increase odds is limit you to put in for only one premium species or better described one premium hunt. So if you put in for antelope you cannot put in for Elk. You put in for sheep you can't put in for antelope ect ect. Bonus points are accumalated for each species. If this was done here you could designate any hunt that has under 10 % draw odds as a premium hunt and have the other higher than 10% draw odds as regular hunts having actually two draws.. All late whitetail, Kaibab-Strip mule, Bull elk , Antelope, hunts as premium and allow all hunters to pick only one of these to enter. If you don't get drawn you are eligible to enter the regular hunt draw, but if drawn lose all bonous points for that species in the premium hunt. Which would clear many bonus points.. This would spread out the draw and increase odds for the one premium tag, and still have a chance to hunt by being drawn in the regular hunt. Still Unit 9 would be a 20 year hunt, but 8 may only be 5 years.