DesertDiesel

I hope he has called the local PD. If he can provide the serial number for the rifle, the burglar won't be able to pawn it & if he tries, he'll get nailed.

AZ4life... You are the man...rather than telling me your secrets & taking me out from 1200...a hint and a beating will sufice. Peace out.

Those custom made barrels & actions are part of the M24. So incredibly custom that Remington was contracted to build the rifles using a 700 action....so custom that only thousands have been made. The ammo you are refering to is the M118LR, a 175 grain sierra match king (.308) The M24 is based off of a long action 700. The intent, we were told (as students of the school) of the LA700 was so that the army could convert the M24 to a .300 win in the future. As I have stated in an earlier post. So far I have only seen a few navy guys using .300 wins. Infact they started using their .308s in iraq because the ammo from the army was so plentiful. If sniper students are using 300 win in school....then that is new from perhaps the last 3-5 years. During the school we trainined to shoot moving targets from 300, 400, 500, & 600 Meters day and night quals. We also shot unknown distance targets, where we were required to mil a known target size and determine the distance from the target. We then fired 2 shots at that target before being assigned a new target to engage but no targets were beyond 800 Meters. Infact, the army preached that the max effective range of the .308 win using M118LR out of our M24 was 800 Meters. We spent one day shooting at 925 Meters, just for the heck of it & I can tell you it humbled the the sh!t out of all of us. If the army has started using the .300 win (and all my sorces tell me they haven't....ie buddies still in the game) perhaps they are playing with 1k. A US Army sniper is expected to make shots at 800 M 70% of the time. There were no 1K requirments. Again, I don't know where you get your info. I believe you mean well, but I don't think your advice is based off of solid experience or reliable sorces. I know that I don't have a ton of posts on this site (but I do read it often) and I don't mean to step on anyones toes, but the man that started this thread is/was looking for advice before he spends a few, hard earned, fat ones. With that in mind my 2 cents worth is that we should all use a little caution when giving advice to someone who plans to spend their dough. I will step of off the soap box and go back to lurking.

Matt, I didn't think of this until after I had stepped away from the computer. If your not happy with accuracy of your 30-06 and you intend to shoot factory ammo. I would highly consider getting a long action remington 700 in .308 win. For a couple of reasons: 1. Plenty of Match grade ammo availble for those who don't reload. Match grage ammo is a must for long range shooting. 2. A long action rem 700 can be rechambered down the road to a 7 STW, 7 RUM, 300 RUM, or 338 Edge and many others. I wouldn't do this until until you had so much range time with that .308 that a new barrel needed as well. 3. pleasent rifle to shoot while you master shooting skills (unlike many of the mega magnums). 4. if you can find a .308 now with a 24 or 26 inch tube heavy tube, you will have the velocity needed for coues kills to 1k.

Matt, There is no such thing as a best calibur for LR hunting. Infact, I would argue that calibur selection is way way down on the list of importance when it comes to LR hunting. I has so much more to do with skill of the shooter...heck military snipers have been taking targets down from extended ranges with 30-06 and 308 win for years. What is important is that you have an accurate rifle with good base/rings combo and a repeatable scope....ie when you turn the turrets up 2 moa and back down again that is exactly what the scope does. After that you need ammo that is of the highest quality...i'm talking very very little varience velocity spread. A quality rangefinder and MOST IMPORTANTLY a man capable of putting it all together. With that said, the popular caliburs for those who pursue the endeavor are 7mm stw, 7mm rum, 7 allen mag (basically a 338 lapua necked down to a .284), 300 rum, 30 allen express (338 lapua necked down to .308), 30-378 weatherby, 338 edge (also known as a 338-300rum), 338 lapua, & 338-378 weatherby. I realize you are talking about a LR deer rifle and most will tell you that a .338 is overkill for a coues deer. They are absolutely correct. But the whole point of LR hunting is putting the metal to the meat from a long, long ways away and a bullet that drops less down range and is less affected by wind drift makes it easier to do than a light bullet....ie the 338 calibur. It doesn't matter if your target is a coues deer or 8"x 8" black circle. All caliburs mentioned will kill bull elk beyond 1k if hit in the vitals and none will a butterfly if you can't hit the broad side of a barn. The list of caliburs mentioned is by no way the end all be all of caliburs....there are many many more to choose from, but I've listed the common caliburs and even some not so common. A dedicated LR rifle will have at a minimum, 26 inches of barrell and preferably 28 to 30 inches. The barrell will also be much heavier (thicker contour) than a typical rifle barrell...for the most part you wont see many light mountain rifles used for LR hunting. Scope wise, the top of line is Schmit & Bender but at $2000 plus per scope, not many can afford that luxury. Nightforce is also a tremendous quality scope. I have a lot of experience with NF scopes and I personally cant justify another $700-800 for a S&B scope over a NF scope. An excellent value is the Leupold VX-III LR scope. I went with the 6.5x20 power and it has worked out very well for me. Deer are very small targets beyond 500-600 yards and that added power on the scope really comes in handy. A custom built rifle will cost you in the ball park $3000. Scope is another $700-1400 (leupy vs NF). A good base will run about $100. The burris tacticall rings you can find for under $40 & they seem to be pretty good quality. A quality rangefinder will run about $500 or so and is a must. A kestrel wind meter is another $150. A dedicated palm pilot with ballistic software is another $400....and the list goes on and on. On the otherhand, you can find a sold Remington 700 sendero in 7mm rum or 300 rum for around $1200. Or a Weatherby accumark in 30-378 or 338-378 for around $1600 or so. Both rifles are excellent off the shelf rifles that you can shoot the heck out of and have customized later on with longer barrells and action/bedding jobs. Another viable option is watch longrangehunting.com classified adds for something that will work for you. I've seen some excellent deals for custom rifles with scope/ring/& bases for around $2000. Then there is the reloading equipment you will need to consider. I haven't even mentioned glassing yet. It only makes sence to have the highest quality optics for glassing...ie swaro 15x56 or the like. If your not capable of finding them from 1/2 - 2 miles away what do you need an LR rifle for? I wish I could tell you that LR hunting is as easy as buying the rifle/scope combo, buy a box of ammo on sale at wal-mart then point and shoot. But it's not. Your 30-06 with 180 gr pills is plenty for 400-500 yard shots, if the shooter/rifle/scope/ammo combo is capable of shooting moa. As an example, my son's tikka in 7mm-08 will shoot sub moa all day long and that rifle cost less than $400 8 years ago (new they go for about $520 now). I have no problem using that rifle for coues out to 500 or so. by the way, if my wife ever sees this post and figures what I've spent for this...."hobby" as she likes to call it, I'm a dead man.

It has nothing to do with the necking. A lot of guys load thier Bees so hot that they blow out the primer pockets. As for the free bore, it is not designed to help accuracy, it is designed to help lower chamber pressures. If you are thinking of this calibur, may I strongly suggest going with 200, 220, or even 240 gr bullets (such as the Sierra Match Kings). In order to take full advantage of the huge case copacity and burn all that powder you need to shoot as heavy a bullet as possible. If you plan to shoot 165 or even 180 gr bullets, I'd suggest getting a 300 RUM. Ammo is much cheaper and performace is very close to the 30-378 in those bullet weights. However, if you are willing to shoot the bigger bullets with much better bullet BC, go with the 30-378. heavy bullets with high BC equal less bullet drop at extended ranges, less wind drift, and more energy down range. As stated earlier, I'm shooting 200 gr bullets and I feel that this is the light side of bullet selection for this calibur.

What military sniper school are you refering to? I attended the army sniper school and we shot to 925m only one day. Most shooting was 600m and in with occasional shots out to 800m. As for the 300 win, I know of a few navy guys using that calibur (and a few troops using the 50bmg & .338 lapua) but for the vast majority of military snipers, the .308 win is the only option available. Keep this in mind, you can have the finest hammer in the world, but it is only as good as the man swinging it. ie master the skills in shooting with what you have. Once you've mastered the skill, you will be a lot more in the know about calibur selection, then you can make the decision for yourself instead of investing a few grand in a rifle/scope based off of a strangers advise. I've read in the past, comments from those who like to take potshots at LR hunters. Personally, I bow hunt and in doing so, my goal is to get as close to game as possible for the shot. When I rifle hunt, I want the ability to shoot as far as possible. That is why I practice every week at the rifle range. I'm not saying that I would move further from my target, but it's nice knowing that if the conditions are right, I can make that LR shot. Matt, do you reload? If you don't I highly suggest that you start. I don't know any LR shoots that don't dedicate a lot of time in mastering the skill of reloading. Nesika action + Nightforce scope + Ken Farrell rings/base + Lilja barrel + McMillan stock = one awsome rifle....add garbage ammo and your stick is no better something you pull stock off of the shelf.

Is the 3200fps at the muzzle? .3", that's exceptional. Why $3.30 if you're reusing brass? What bullets are you shooting? 3200 fps at the muzzle. Brass still costs over $50 per 20 pieces and if I get 4 shots per brass I figure I'm doing about average. I use 117 gr of H50 BMG. Bullets are SMK's. I have a software program where you enter the cost of powder, bullets, brass, primers, etc in their purchased quantities and then include number of shots per brass and weight in powder used and the program will tell you what each shot costs you.

I bought a weatherby accumark in 30-378 last year. I topped it off with a Leupold VX-III 6.5-20 LR. I have a load shooting 200 gr bullets into .3" at 100 yards moving at 3200 fps. I am still able to reuse by brass. The brake is excellent, I can tell you that my weatherby kicks much much less than my Tikka in 300 win. Infact, my 16 year old used it last year to take the bull of a life time. It costs me $3.30 per round to reload compared to over $5 per round for store bought. Folks will tell you that is a crazy price to pay for ammo. Personally, when you look at the bigger picture, money spent on tags (not to mention how long you can go between getting drawn), time and $$$ on gas for scouting, taxidermy work etc.etc. etc. I don't see it as a huge deal. My son took this bull last year from 637 yards.

My son has killed 3 cow elk with 140 gr Accubonds out of a 7mm-08. Your 139 gr Interbonds will be just fine.

I have personally seen several mule deer killed (5 or 6) with 22-250's, my mother use hunt with one and on occasions, my father would use the same rifle. All deer where one shot kills.

I've been off the internet for a few days and now I see this. I checked the next meeting dates, and it looks like I already missed the Mesa meeting. Can anyone update me as to how the meeting went? My concern is much much greater than this single issue. My concern is that the G&F heads actually think these decisions are okay. They don't seem to even forsee the same problems that you and I can clearly see. I'm concerned about how incompetent the G&F heads really are. I've already fired off my slew of hate mail and suggested that the commission stop holding in their farts. Otherwise they travel up their spine, get lodged in their brain and then come out as sh!tty ideas.

I agree with the draw being somewhat strange or "fishy". A few years ago, I put in with my buddy for archery bull in 27 and december whitetail in 27. He also put in an antelope tag. That year, we drew all those hunts. What are odds of that happening in one year? He did have a bunch of bonus points for antelope. I think we averaged 6 points for the archery bull tags, and we had 3 points for the deer tags.

This whole draw thing is has me perplexed. My youngest has not drawn a cow tag yet (it has been 3 years of trying). My oldest, who is 16 has had 2 cow tags and now was just drawn for a rifle bull tag (in a trophy unit no less). I've had one bull tag in 11 years. I guess it is a total crap shoot.

Are these guys that are getting bull tags every couple of years drawing from the "lesser quality" units? I've had one archery bull tag in 11 years. I just don't see how some of these guys are getting those tags, unless they're drawing those November tags.

Out of the 4 elk applications on my card, we have one hit so far. 3 apps for bulls and one a junior elk with a second choice 5B South cow. I'm guessing we got the cow tag, but we will have to wait and see.

I am interested, could you pm me the details. Thanks, Phil

I was in 24A also. I saw a total of 6 does after two full days of glassing. I will be at it again next weekend. I only saw two other hunters that filled their whitetail tags in 24A.

Ah yes, the old can they smell me or not. I'm sure we have all had experiences of being very close to deer and elk with and without scent control products. I know that I have. I have some close friends that are K-9 police officers. They use Labradors, German Shepards, and Belgian Malinois for drug and human searches. I asked them about a dogs sence of smell and they put it to me this way: You can smell a cheese burger, a dog can smell the cheese, meat, bun, mustard, etc. etc. etc. and even the ingredients in the bun, cheese, mustard, etc. etc. etc. I know those dogs are also alerting to drugs that dealers have gone to a great deal of trouble trying to "cover" with different cover scents, air tight containers, etc. etc. etc. Now, I don't know how good a deer or elk's nose is compaired to a dog (and these dogs I've been talking about are not blood hounds mind you). But I venture to guess that if you are down wind of prey, they will smell you, your cover scent, your deodorant, your toothpaste, campfire, or what ever else you got going on. With that said, I still worry keep a cold camp and worry about my scent on archery hunts, if only to help keep the scent minimal if possible. On the other hand, no deer or elk will smell me from 100-200 yards away on my rifle hunts and I don't worry one bit about my scent on those types of hunts. So do what gives you peace of mind.

I am selling a Glock 36 with Trigicon night sights for $500. Has less than 200 rounds through it. This is a .45ACP. Excellent for concealed carry. Send me an email if your interested to: pbrailsford@gmail.com

My 10 year old and 15 year old each have Nov tags in 24a. Don't know where I will be yet in there as I don't know much about 24a. Hopefully I will fill my bear tag this weekend and then can get over to 24a for some scouting.

Archery HQ in Chandler

I had an archery tag in 27 last year. The wasn't much of a rut from what I could see/hear. Temps were real high. As for the dogs, they screwed up one chance for me. I had a bull talking to me and closing in until the dogs started going nuts. The bull got quiet and haulled arse out off there.

PM sent

I gotta call April fools on this one. I think you've been had 80.