bonecollector777

At least NMGFD prosecutes it's crooked emoloyees. .http://www.abqjournal.com/360535/news/report-game-chief-set-up-lawyers-cougar-kill.html

Haha I sure hope so cuz I got my email last night.

I'll have to disagree completely with what you said about 23 and 3C being similar. Not even close. The big mule deer thing has come and gone. What big bucks were killed there this year? Or last? I'm talking big as in 170" or bigger. Shane kourey didn't and neither did anyone else that I know of. As for the bulls yes every year one giant bull comes out of there. 23 has multiple giant bulls come out every year. 3c used to have multiple giant bulls come out every year. Just because one hunter kills a 400 inch bull doesn't mean the unit is a quality unit. 4b a couple of years back had a 400 bull killed there but the unit as a whole still sucks. Ask anyone that has hunted in there the past 3 years. There are some elk but nothing to write home about. I also feel it's just a matter of time before azgfd raises tags in 23. I already heard rumors but haven't seen anything suggesting it. Bottom line is yeah every year big bulls are killed in Arizona. Used to be a couple 400 inchers from 27, couple from 3c, couple from 1, couple from 23N, 23s, 9, 10. Now it's a couple 400 inchers from 23, 9, 10 with the occasional one coming from other units. 3c two or three years ago didn't have a bull bigger than 369 come out of there.

They probably think it's you trying to put in multiple times for yourself I'm guessing? Which is dumb because it will accept as many people as you can put in with it before the deadline. Not sure why it wouldn't now.

Haha what's funny is my original post was nothing about the azgfd not doing anything to manage wildlife. It was just one more example of how crooked a state game management is. Then came the same azgfd lovers to the rescue defending the game and fish and then I gave my opinion about the game and fish. To desert tacoma no I am not working on a wildlife management degree it is just a biology. I have truly thought about going into the field of wildlife management but due to my open feelings towards the department I don't think that is gonna work out nor would I want it to as more time passes. To coues magnet congrats to your brother on passing up on my little bull to kill the big one. I'm jealous. Now prepare yourselves, I'm gonna say something you won't hear often. Unit 23N and 23s are managed well by the game and fish. There are lots of elk and lots of big bulls as I witnessed on my hunt. Wanna know why there are? Because there are 15 archery tags and like 15 or 20 rifle tags. That is great for the elk herd there. Now in all honestly I have seen way less elk and quality bulls in 3C but somehow they shove 150 archery tags in there every year. And even worse was 4b until they cut back a little this year. I bet there aren't more than 50 elk bigger than spikes in 3c yet they give 150 tags? 4b doesn't have 150 elk and deer combined in the whole unit and they give 150 archery bull tags. I have never hunted 6A but holy sh#* they gave out 2875 elk tags I'm that unit this year! How many elk can possibly survive that? It's the insane amount of tags they give out that is hurting the quality. I also find it interesting as the azgfd sees they are murdering off a lot of the elk they have cut a small amount of tags and the same year they raise tag prices. Hmmm. . Utah every year us having the same quality of bulls killed there. They have huge deer as well if you're looking for somewhere with quality as good as az. Now take a look at the antelope populations, they have been doing well but slowly but surely tags have been on the rise and before we know it we will be back where we started. 26 rifle tags in 4b usually means 26 dead antelope bucks. Problem is there are maybe 25 decent bucks running around out there. The bighorn sheep have been doing great only because of private organizations and any ground they have made up in the past five years is being negated with 31 and possibly more being murdered in the Catalinas. My point is that just because azgfd goes and puts some water tanks out doesn't mean they are managing the populations well. You can ask any and every hunter that has been in 3c within the last ten years and they will tell you the quality and numbers is down so much its astonishing. Same goes for 27 and 1. The only reason they got so good is the fire. Then azgfd raises tag numbers by the hundreds and quality is on the downhill slide. I agree putting out some water is gonna help some animals survive. But that's not the only part to keeping animals alive. First and foremost you can't have hundreds of hunters every year chasing a small population of bulls in one area and expect them to survive. (23 is the exception) I don't know about 9 or 10 never been hunting up there. Why do you suppose they give out so many tags? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Now I agree with that fork horn. They have to eat and will kill stuff often. Including elk, turkey, javelina, rabbits, and I have seen them eat skunks, fox, and even bobcats from traps. They are opportunistic feeders and usually whatever they wander up on while hungry is gonna die.

Wow. . that is one pretty looking rifle!

Factual article or not do the simple math. Doesn't take a genius to see that if we have 200,000 deer in Arizona and lions and hunters kill over 200,000 deer a year after 1 year there would be nothing left. 200,000-201,000= -1000= no deer= impossible that lions eat a deer every 3 days or every 7 days for that matter. I have heard it many times from avid deer hunters or from the AZGFD but the numbers don't lie. AZGFD actually says there are over 4000 lions in Arizona so think about that one. 3000 deer killers on the loose relentlessly killing deer every 3-5 days plus the AZGFD relentlessly giving out way to many tags equals over 400,000 deer dying in Arizona alone. Another thing to think about. All of us on the site are out in the woods more in one year than most people their whole lives. I bet you can count on one hand how many lion kills you have found. I bet I can tell you that of the hundreds of days in the woods a year I have found 1 lion kill. If these lions are leaving a trail of destruction where is the evidence? Now leaving 31 sheep in front of 30+ lions is a different story. Just like if someone left a big T bone steak in front of me day after day. And then after I ate it they brought me more.

Give me some time to look up the other states for you AZwest. JLW already got me going on Ohio. I never said those organizations were bad and that they don't help the animals. In fact I feel that those private organizations devoted to different species are the only reason we have the populations of animals we have today. I would hate to see it if only the AZGFD took care of the animals. That would be like leaving hundreds of hungry lions to watch over 31 sheep.. . . Oh wait. .

Well at least they have made someone happy. . Tell me what habitat they have improved or any hunting unit they have improved the quality of game or numbers of game? Those organizations are gonna work on the water catchment whether azgfd helps them or not. Because those organizations do it for the sole purpose of helping while the azgfd does it for money.They may have a few good ones but every one I have run into is a arrogant power hungry d bag. Then throw in all the incidents that have been coming up with them breaking the law and getting away with it and that's enough for me. It's gonna take more than going and fixing a water tank for me to think differently of them.

That's not true at all. . Even if deer hunters tell you that. Just do the math. Approximately 2000 lions in arizona. Let's say 1/4 are kittens that don't kill. So 1500 deer eaters. 1500X122 Deer a year means that 183,000 deer die every year. Throw in deer killed by hunters and that's over 200,000 deer a year. We would run out of deer within a year.

They kill a sheep a week

False. . A lion doesn't kill a deer a week.

Holy smokes . . How in the world did you end up so far back into the threads? Must have been terribly bored.

Nice bull but did the scorers give him a 60 inch spread credit to get him to 378? Looks more like 350-360 max

Cards hit on the 10th of march and results out 18th of march at 9:30 AM

Camofire has some decent ones for good prices

I figured so. Smokin deal at that price. I didn't have time to try and PM you about the 300wm.

PM sent

Didn't take long!

Never looked through the 20X56 but I can't see how much light can get into them. The exit pupil is less than 3mm. The 15X56's is almost 4 mm and the 12X50's is like 4.2mm. To match light gathering capabilities the 20X would have to be 20X80mm or something similar. Just don't see the need for 20's when you can get 15 or 12's. If you want extra power buy a spotting scope that you can get some good light gathering with.

I think you took that a little too literal swarovskicoues.

I'd have to say small coyote

Gonna get dumped on up there! I'd hold off till next weekend if you could.

Only place I have heard of with buffalo hunts up in NE New Mexico would be Vermejos park ranch. But that's a lot bigger than 22,000 acres. And probably a lot more than $2000 haha