GotBowAz

I know my wife would really like to be able to communicate as well. The InReach sounds like it could be a better option for me but I will do some more research on both units before I make up my mind on that. With either unit I would like to know what the chances are of accidently hitting or bumping the emergency come get me button?? Seems to me it can get tossed around in your back pack or bump something on the trail. Is there a chance it will send a rescue signal off? Can you imagine the repercussions of a rescue crew coming out to get you and nothing was wrong? That could be an expensive oopsy. GBA

Im with Non-Typical, Id like to know more about it in the back country that has no cell phone service. Will the smart phone still work with the one for Smart phones where there is no cell service? Great question PDATR, and thanks for posting that information Amanda. Very good sound advice there.

Thanks Scott, Your pictures and valuable information are really getting me excited. Im sold on the goats and I am actually looking forward to making my own sawbucks and Panniers too. As I put my little herd together and make or acquire my equipment I will post them up. Hope to get some field photos to post up as well. Thanks again Scott, those photos will never get old. GBA

I just ran across a green Mojave a couple of weeks ago about 4 miles deep in the wilderness. Fortunately for me he let me know about 12 feet before getting to him that he was on the trail. There was no cell phone service and very spotty satellite service for my GPS and I was in a deep and steep canyon with the only way out pretty much they way I came in. I had to find a long stick to pick the snake up with and move him off the trail to get by. I did not kill him although sometimes I must admit I am questioning myself about that. I even ran across him on the way back the next day. He wasn't 20 yards from where I left him the day before but this time he was moving away. I kept thinking if I got bit by that 4 foot fat snake I hope he just ate. I could be in serious trouble humping it back to the truck. I would have to hike it out...so my question is how do you get help if your to sit and relax yourself? The Spot is the only answer I can think of and they work off of satellite. Otherwise it's get your hind end out of there and back to the truck. Be careful out there this time of year. Specially you quail hunters. GBA

southernxpress, sent you a PM. Scott, thank you so much for the pictures and that incredible write up. I think I'm sold. Now to find breeders or pack goats locally. New Mexico isn't that far to get good pack goats. Do you know of any breeders here for the Boer's you mentioned? GBA

My hunting partner will be turning 70 this November. He is still in great shape but no way will he/we be able to pack out a whole elk for a couple of miles and retrieve camp too. He and I have hunted 5BN for 20 plus years. It will truly be sad when he can’t get back to his favorite hunting places due to closed roads that we have used for so many years. And I agree, I will be really upset to see someone go by me on any kind of vehicle if I'm humping out elk or camp and even more so if I see it and my hunting partner can’t get there. My crusade in finding pack animals wasn’t intended to get ready for road closers but it’s looking like that will be one of benefits to having them. But to the point others have eluded to. Hunters won’t be in the field as long or as deep as they once went. This will make it a mad house around all the roads that will be open and make it nearly impossible for a hunter that isn’t as mobile to take a nice animal. Can you imagine your camp getting dusted by all the traffic a mere 30 feet off the road? My partner has said one day he may end up being just camp cook as he won’t be able to hunt. I used to joke with him and tell I would hoist him up in a block and tackle then tie him off so he could still hunt. Now it’s looking like we won’t even be able to get him to a tree or a good area for even a ground blind much less be our camp cook. Our older generation will be force to road hunt on quads and such or not at all. That just kills me to think about. And we are going to get old one day too, what happens then? Will I be forced to quit hunting? My answer to the original question the OP asked… I will do whatever it takes to get back in to the area we love to hunt so much within the law. It may mean more trips, a down and dirty elk camp, and to figure out how to haul in water too. If it means pack animals then so be it. I feel for those that can’t have any of those means. I imagine outfitters are probably going to do very well as a result of this. Good for them, they should take advantage of it. If road closers have to happen I hope outfitters are so competitive that the prices are kept low enough for the not so mobile average Joe hunter to afford them. That’s my take on it and this really upsets me. GBA

Scott, please do post your pic's if you can. I would love to see them. Also would love to hear any other experiences you had with them. If you were to purchase goats today where would you go, how old would you get them, how much would you pay for them and how many of them would you get? In other words is there a number of goats you believe is optimum for packing camps, animals etc. etc.. Also above and beyond buying the goats how much would I expect the cross back saddles, blankets and panniers set me back per goat? Would you recommend hard or soft panniers and why? Thanks for your time. GBA

Oh wow, that's just sad, Im sorry to hear this and it brings back memories of my own. I had what I thought was a perfectly healthy husky and the same thing happened right in front of me. He walked up to me, put his head in my lap, made one little whimper and dropped dead. Same here, vet thought it was a heart attack. I had a rottie that also passed in front of me but he was 15 years old and the signs had been coming for a couple of days. he was by far the best loving dog I ever owned. It does happen suddenly and I would think if it was foul play you would see some kind of sign just before passing. hang in there dude and when you can get yourself another best friend. Sorry for your loss. GBA

Muleskinner, I like your input and I can agree with a few of your comments. I don't think I would leave an animal at camp and go hunt and sense I do nothing but archery hunt the pack animals wont be coming with me from camp. I wonder what a good pack goat taste like, ha ha ha LOL Id be more inclined to pack a comfortable camp and a tree stand in and stash it just prior to the season, then bring whatever pack animal I have back out and hike back in without them. This would primarily be in late December or January so if I got something down i could hang it high in a tree pack out what I could at the time and get my pack animals back in there to get the rest. From what I read a well conditioned pack goat can carry average 50 to 60 pounds.So with an elk it might take 6 goats for one trip. For elk I wont be any deeper than 4 miles so 2 trips wouldn't be too bad. So I'm looking at about 4 goats, I think... Honestly I don't really know so I am looking for solid info from those that do it. To your point though. I cant ride a goat and one trip out with an elk is very appealing to me. However I would still have to make one more trip in to retrieve camp. But even to your admition, getting a bad mule is a nightmare. So how do you know how to pick a good one? I hear mules are extremely expensive also, not to mention vet bills and shoeing. Can you give us an idea what that would run a year along with feed? I had up to 11 pygmy's at one time, down to 4 now. I trimmed their hoofs and gave them wormier and shots myself. I didn't pay 50 bucks a month in feed for all of them and granted they don't eat much but the maintenance isn't too bad. However if the payback was in my mind worth the costs id be tempted to go with a good mule. I just want a good one and to know how to pick them. Oh and one more question for you. How do you train a mule to haul a dead smelly and bloody animal on their back? Is it some wont miss a beat and others got to be around it a lot? Just curious what you have found to be the best method. It would really suck to be way back in and the mule will not get near or have anything to do with a dead anything on its back. I'm still indecisive and I'm learning a lot of good stuff on many different pack animals from different perspectives. Thanks to everyone! GBa

ready2hunt, they are pretty cool little critters and sense I already raise pygmy goats Im all set up for them. I have been looking for the best breeds to buy but they appear to be out of state, or most of them anyway. I am waiting on more info from Vowell as well. maybe his buddy can point me in the right direction and give me first hand experiences on do's and don't"s to know about. I have read that they need to be exercised to keep in shape. otherwise they will just lay down on you on the trail when they get tired. that makes sense and for me is pretty doable. I have been also looking into Lama's but from what I am hearing and reading about they can be pretty high maintenance. I also heard they can spit when they decide to be ornery. Im still doing more research on all options. GBA

Thank you all for the very valuable information and advise. I sure would hate to buy a mule and have a bad one. Think I could get people to let me test drive one, ha ha ha LOL The goats are sounding like a better idea at the moment but Im not fixed on anything yet. Im going to keep researching and asking questions. So far you guys have helped probably more than you know. Thanks again! keep them coming. GBA

I believe people will do this to keep OTC tags verses a draw like they did with Javelina I would call on and report my Javelina if they brought back OTC tags. Now that its a draw I am forced to put in for certain areas and I hate that. Also, people already do it for bear. And then they would have dead lines and hassels to get put in for the draw AND they may not get drawn on top of that. OTC, there is STILL opportunity for everyone. I don't think your trying to be a jerk, at least i'm not taking it that way... it's your opinion and point of view to express. As for your outfitter question. I failed to address it clearly so i will use your analogy. If there is a total of 100 for harvest in a unit for a year then the archery OTC tags for that area would be stopped at 50 or maybe 25. The other 50 or 75 would be set aside for the rifle hunters so the area would not be closed down for the rifle hunt. Does that make sense? GBA

Both my hunting partner and i can walk for miles. Matter of fact he is in better shape than most 40 year olds I know. I am a wrestling coach so I stay in great shape myself but carrying 60 plus pounds in a 5 mile trip got to my knees. Without the weight I can go all day without a problem. I have pondered goats for a long time but I don't have any experiences with pack goats on the trail. I hear all kinds of great things about them though and they sound like they are what I'm looking for but what are they going to set me back? They cant carry as much so i need more, which also mean more panniers. However I hear the costs of horse or mules are plenty high specially for shoeing and vets bills. I like the idea of putting goats in the truck bed or a trailer verse buying a horse or stock trailer too. Thanks for all the input. I didn't go to any certain pack animal websites because I wanted to hear from first hand users of different animals before I dug into specific ones. You guys have given me options to think about before spending cash on something and finding out I should have thought it through a little more. GBA

1st off phone calls and info is a recording letting you know if objective has been met. You just punch buttons. 2nd off you would report your game to the F&G office, they are there all day at work so why would you need more government spread out all over? I don't understand your question. They do this with bear. 3rd, each area has an OTC harvest objective and a rifle objective. Meaning it is cut off way before the rifle hunters opportunity is gone. That would be more animal harvest control than we currently have today... because we have no accountability for rifle hunts. Now were talking real numbers. GBA

elkaholic, can you explain how they can do it with bear then? I do know guys that camp for two weeks in 23 for bear. They also go and make the phone call knowing full well it's required. As for harvest quota i'm pretty sure F & G have a good idea how many deer should be removed/harvested in an area and still have a healthy herd. I bet that number would not be met most of the time so baiting or any other method of take is a mute point and personal preference. And for hunters moving on to other areas, they would also have to call those in before hunting them as well. You make it sound a LOT harder than it has to be and I call BS. If they can and do do it for bear they can do it for deer or any other OTC big game. Hunter discipline and diligence will fall in line as required. GBA

Vowell PM sent. Does anyone else have any experiences with goats or any other type of pack animals?

Jmaro, even though we have an OTC tag and can put in for rifle and draw that tag we can still only kill one deer per calendar year. If you kill it with the OTC tag, then you can not hunt the rifle tag. Mandatory harvest reporting in my mind would be like our OTC bear tags in which you HAVE to report your kill within 24 hours and you must bring in the head to turn is a tooth in the case of a bear within 10 days. Anything less than that is a ticket or probably considered poaching. So for deer maybe they decide you bring in the antlers or head as proof in ten days or something along those lines. Now IMO by making mandatory phone calls each week to see if an area is still open until their objective harvest quota is met, like done with OTC sow bears in an area they would close it down. This still gives hunters opportunities to go to another area and hunt. It still has the same F&G OTC tag sales and other than the inconvenience of calling it in and bringing horns in or whatever they decide they can now have an accurate count of harvest. The same should be applied to the rifle hunters as well. In my mind it’s a win win. Harvest methods wouldn't have to be changed, same amount of revenue comes into the F&G and OTC hunters still have the same opportunity . I have a hunch the harvest objectives wouldn't get met most of the time. GBA

I just relocated/hiked my camera five miles deep into a wilderness area. I wont retrieve it for a few more weeks. Hoping for some dandy bucks to post up. GBA

I'm from back east ( years ago) and know that rule well. My back pack has a blaze orange water proof cover zipped into the bottom of the pack. I have used it many times to help me locate my pack when I drop it off for archery spot and stalk. It works great hanging it in a tree just above the pack also or to keep my hat dry in a soft rain. But if I was a rifle hunter ( even thought there is no requirement) I would use it like others have mentioned, for when I was on the move and covering an animal I was packing out. Don’t bring a white bucket with you to sit on or blow your nose with a white handkerchief! They even have orange toilet paper now which as funny as it sounds is a darn good idea. GBA

Lord forgive me for giving my input but... 1) Every time I see a nice AZ Archery Coues, I think..."Nice Bait, Buck". In NM we can't bait or use salt or even use scents... We have to hunt them old school 2) Bottom line is that the AZ Dept of Game and Fish is trying to get a handle on the abnormaly high success rate for archery coues deer. If things stay the same and you can continue to bait be prepared for no more OTC Archery tags... That will be their only option... J- Jamaro, Outside of your opinion on baiting or any other method I could not disagree with you more. There is no reason to go to a draw. F&G can go to a mandatory call in and reporting just like they do for bear. Once the harvest Quota has been met for that area it gets closed down BUT a hunter could move on to a different area that isn't closed. This would still keep hunters buying OTC tags so F&G still gets the same money each year and it still allows hunters opportunity regardless of the method used. So no we don't need to be prepared for no more OTC tags as F&G doesn't have to go to a draw system to get the same result for harvest numbers or tag sales. GBA

Good on you bonecollector!! Problem is people like that will never learn and go get another dog.

I guess I don’t understand weather it’s gun hunting or with a bow why they have the need to take current hunting methods away “IF” and only if the argument is about how successful we are at harvesting animals now. Bottom line, If F&G feel there is a need to control it then why not have a mandatory harvest report like they do with bear in each unit. Once the quota or objective is met then close that particular area down. But that still leaves hunters to hunt another unit if it hasn’t met the harvest objective. There is no need to stop baiting or any other method legally used today. With a call in method and mandatory reporting there also is no justification of going to a draw system either. I hate that they did that with Javelina, it was not necessary. For those of you that feel baiting needs to stop, here is a question I have for you from maybe a different perspective. How many more hunters are you willing to have sharing the open country with you in hopes of spot and stalking a good buck? I don’t know anyone who baits for Muleys but I do know a few folks that bait for Whitetail because of where they live. I don’t know of any Coue’s hunter that spot and stalks in the thick nasty stuff. So if baiting is out the window you open terrain hunters should expect a big jump of hunters out in your areas right beside you. It’s a whole lot easier to sit and glass the open areas then it is to sit a tree stand for hours without attractants/bait only looking at the same terrain with no more than 40 yards to see in each direction. IMO, right now I think hunters are much more dispersed in a unit then they would be if baiting is banned. I personally used to be out there spot and stalk more than any other method. After years of trying it on Coue's my success rate is zero. I went into the deep nasty stuff and now Salt/bait. I have only taken 1 deer this way over a few years but baiting was/is fun and a lot of work. I am also out in the field 3 times as much as I was when I was open glassing which is also part of that thrill. I respect those that glass the open country sides and put on successful spot and stalks. I have found good bucks with that methiod but just cannot get within bow range. I will be right back out there with you though if they make baiting illegal. And F&G really needs to keep it legal for those less fortunate than we are that cannot hump the mountains. GBA

What luck...a buck and a dear! Nice huntin dude! ha ha ha LOL

Awesome buck and great story. Now your ruined...how you gonna top this experience now, ha ha ha LOL Good job dude, spot and stalk is tough as heck on these big Coue's. Much Congrats to you!! GBA

azshtr, Yes it could be for rancher access, he has the combo and if its open he is probably back there rounding up cattle unless its Fish and Game. Fish and Game have a horse trailer and locked shack back in there for some reason. They have been there a while and they don't appear to have been moved or used in some time. I read some of the rescue story and I highly doubt the area is closed off because of the drownings.. That was in 1998 and i have not only hunted but i have also camped back in there prior to the Diamond fire nearly every year after that time and some before it. Used to do a lot of quail hunting up by the huge mine towards Mnt. Ord as well. However since the Diamond fires it could be deem as a flash flood issue and coupled with falling debris off the steep hills because of the lack of vegetation and erosion. If your willing to hike back in there its pretty good area for Muley's and a few white tail if you know where to look. GBA