GotBowAz

Thanks to Southern Express I have put together a pretty darn good pack goat group. We ( the goats and I) are all still in training and I learned a few things along the way but I must admit Im pretty impressed. These goats are still too young to pack too much on them but even at that I didnt have to carry my lunch or water and I was able to have some camp stuff packed out. I even brought some irrigation boots along to keep our feet dry as a couple of places it was impossible to stay out of the water. My grandson and I took them on a 10.4 mile round trip hike and they did awesome. They were a little tired at the end but none the worse for wear. GBA

I sat in a tree a few years ago above a spring up there. Then a kid in shorts come skippity do dah through the woods down that steep hill and out of site below the spring. About 30 minutes later he came back out with a white plastic shopping bag full of something. I had no clue at the time what it was. Then i got pulled over by a highway patrol headed down to camp as I was watching a doe on the side of the road. He asked me if i had seen anything strange up where i was hunting. When I told him what I saw he got all excited. Turns out someone tapped into the ranchers black water pipe that I helped a small part of putting in at the spring and made a pot garden. Last time I stepped foot in the area. The deer aint worth it, you guys can have it. My hunting partner that lives right there in Sunflower still hunts it though. Same trip i helped a guy that rolled his SUV half way down the hill, had to call in rescue for him, also had a mountain lion come under my tree the day before that kid showed up. Found out the Sheriff in charge knew of my tree stand, my partners tree stand and the pot patch as they had been watching it. She called me and talked to me about the kid I saw then proceeded to tell me about my tree stands sites etc. etc.. And I wondered why I wasn't seeing any deer! GBA

Todd, pm sent!

Give me a ticket then. I will be glad to challenge and fight it. It is legal! I just recently went on a back packing archery hunt 5.2 miles back in by myself. I hunted 2 full days and came back out on the 3rd morning. This is what I found next to my own boot tracks that were headed in as I was coming out. These pics are approximately 400 yards apart from one another and were the clearest to take pic's of. He followed me for all of that and maybe more. Now was i being stalked, was he just curious, was he on my heels or five minutes behind me? I cant answer that as I was humping a 60 pound pack and didn't bother to stop humping it in until I got to my campsite. I will be checking my back trail from now on. I did have my side arm on me and accessible at all times. Had I stopped he may have caught up with me and decided I was dinner. I would have at least had a fighting chance and if nothing else even if there was no threat I would have at least felt secure with my backup. I will never go in the field without it. GBA

I am also just sickened by this, and what really crawls under my skin is the thought that if just one teacher had a CC permit on the grounds this might have ended much differently. IMO all teachers ought to have a CC and carry on the school grounds. Then maybe nut jobs out there wouldn’t target innocent children. If you watched the “VOICE” this week all of the performers and the coaches that were on the show together sang a song for those children while holding a card with a child’s name on it that is now deceased from this tragedy. For me, it hit home, PROTECT OUR CHILDREN! My heart and prayers to the family’s of all involved. GBA

Wow, awesome and fascinating all at the same time! You have really caught some major evolution here. I hunted an area years ago that held great numbers of big Muley's and an occasional Coue's. A fire went threw the area 10 years ago and I quit hunting it. I went back up there this year and there were tons of deer however they were all Coue's with an occasional Muley. I have to wonder now with your documented evidence if most of those are actually hybrids. I also have to wonder if the Mule deer will one day go away because of the aggressive dominance of the white tail buck?? GBA

+1, more pictures and field pictures if you have them. Awesome buck and beautiful work Clay did for you there. He did my Archery Pedestal Bull I harvested in 2010. Clay's work is awesome, you will enjoy that mount for years to come. GBA

If you’re looking to go brand new and with the fastest bows out there I think the best advise here is to go to the PRO shops, provided your right handed and shoot as many different models as you can. Find the one that fits and feels the most comfortable to you. I like higher end bows and so I would probably go with the Bowtech Insanity mostly because I love the grip in my hand. It seems to fit well for me, however speed isn’t everything. If it feels dead in the hands to you then go with it. All the bows out there anymore are just plain awesome. Its a Ford, Chevy, Dodge thing. But they can be pricey so get what makes you not want to put it down. Good luck in your quest. Its can be a bit frustrating with all the models out there but its so much fun too. GBA

Viper, I forgot to answer you about the screen on ground blinds. I have never shot threw a screen before with any type of head, I have no experiences there. I have sat in my brothers ground blinds and had deer with in 5 yards walk past me and didn't get seen. My brother consistently kills turkeys out of his ground blind and he removed the screens.They have the best eyes out there and still don't catch him inside the blind so Im really not sure why anyone would use them and possibly make their arrow flight change even if they used a field point. Just my 02. GBA

I use the cut on contact Killzones but that’s all just personal preference. I couldn’t see any different in penetration between the cut on contact or the trophy tip. I haven’t seen this video and cant get Youtube so I will have to look at it at home. I will assume it is a penetration test and it appears to be up against fixed blade heads. My thoughts are this. There is no comparison to penetration between a fixed head and a mechanical of any kind. Little cut surface fixed blades will outperform mechanical that all day long when it comes to penetration However what I don’t know is what weight/grain arrow this test has. I shoot a 455 grain minimum with mechanical heads as mechanical s need the extra momentum to push those wide heads through.

I did test them and the grave digger is a good head with the exception of quartering away shots, but not to say all or most all quartering away shots. Big ole hole too but If it catches the blade tip on a rib it will have a tendency to kick out due to the angle. Think of it as a jackknifing trait. There isn’t enough of the head penetrating before the expansion blade deploys at angle shots causing the inside blade to kick out. But keep in mind it will have to hit just right, or in this case, just wrong. I would say that might only happen 1 out of 20 shots depending on the rotation of the arrow when and where the front tip of the expansion blade hits. The only other thing I didn’t like is I had drift/planeing at 50 yards and with cross winds. It was dead on with no wind at all yardages. Another reason I like mechanical is because in a cross wind they are more forgiving. In this case with the Grave digger there is simply more blade out there paddling the air. I have steered clear of almost all forward deploy or jackknifing deploying blade type heads. I will only shoot rearward deploying heads now with at least an inch of tip penetration prior to the expansion blade entry. This will keep your arrow going straight into its direct path and won’t allow kick out. Years ago I shot a similar head as the grave digger except it was a 3 blade both on the fixed head and the expansion blades. I never seen an arrow act like it did when I hit a deer perfectly broadside at ground level. It went in where I aimed right behind the shoulder then went darn near a 90 degree angel and out the bottom of his chest. Killed him on the spot but wow what a weird flight. Turned out one expansion blade caught enough rib that is forced the arrow in a different direction/path. The Schwacker would be the only head I would use that is a jack knifing style head as it open inside the cavity and stays on track but IMO the entrance hole is too darn small. Quartering away shot into an elk far shoulder and your blood trail would be zilch. The hole you seen in my pic on the entry is nearly 4 inches wide due to the angle and stretch of hide with only a 2 inch expansion but it took out 2 ribs on both sides. Now those are holes I can live with! These are simply my opinions from my own observations and tests but to me blood trails are where it’s at so IMO the bigger the animal the bigger I want those holes. GBA

I cant speak for the bow but it sure looks like a keeper. IMO split limb technology are the easiest tuning bows out there. Being able to take out cam lean and square it up by the twist of a string one side or the other beats a solid limb any day. There is also a little less mass there so they can achieve a little more speed than a solid limb bow. Also agree 328 is nothing to scoff at. If she’s smooth and feels dead in the hands only you will know when shooting it. But I would go out and shoot a few different models and pick which one fits and feels the best to you. Unless of course your left handed with a short draw like I am then that’s easier said than done. Most PRO shops don’t carry left handed bows set up to try out. GBA

If you like mechanicals give the new Nap Killzone a try. I love mechanicals just like I love my mechanical compound bow. I test a lot of mechanical heads and with all the testing I’ve done I feel the Killzone is 100 percent fail safe and it packs a 2 inch cut on entrance and exit. I like HUGE holes! The blades lock open on impact and still reverses to keep it as a non barbed head, which is illegal in some states. It’s a very tough head and sharp out of the package. It does not have an o-ring or spring to retain the blades but a very ingenious locking feature that is a detent. Great engineering design IMO, much better than the Rage ever thought of being. Currently they only make the 100 grain. I like 125 grain heads so I am hoping they will be manufacturing those soon. Although the blood runner might be a decent head I disagree that it will stay open through lung tissue and it technically may be considered a barbed head. Also due to its inherent design at the feral they do not get the penetration that my testing against other heads do. Just my 02. GBA Nap Killzone entrance quartering away shot on a 250 plus pound buck. Exit hole. Deer traveled 30 yards from the shot and sprayed bubbly blood all over everything before piling up.

Wow, that really sucks... ruined your night and possibly your hunt I would imagine. This is why I go to the trouble of stashing my camp and putting it up when I get there. I sure hope you get a lead and get the scum bags that did this. good luck and post it up if you catch the crooks! GBA

Tony, Im also looking forward to seeing your write up on Scott's goats. Hope you get a chance to post it here. Thanks GBA

Naturegirl, I just saw your response here to my post and I want to thank you for your offer. I may just take you up on that one day. Also, you have some solid advice when it comes to putting dead animals on packers. I was wondering how your horse were taking to that type of training. I hope it all works out well and you have a great experience with your buddy’s hunt and your horses. I now have two 6 month old goats, thanks to southernxpress, that I plan to train for packing. I will take them on hikes with me but with no packs at first then graduate them as they get older to packs and a little weight. I'm really looking forward to it. In the meantime I am still trying to find 3 or 4 adults I can get trained to pack by next summer and I will be sure to add the dead animal factor to their packs. A couple of pictures of the two 6 month old's. Here is Bonny, female all dark face and Clyde with the white head when I first brought them home. The back ground are my pigmys. And here is Clyde jumping through the irrigation in the back yard. He took to the water very well. Looks like he can fly too, ha ha ha LOL! I am an archery hunter that likes back pack hunting so my goal isn’t to hunt with the goats as much as is it to get camp in and back out. I may try to take them in a week or so early and stash most of my camp in advance. For deer I am pretty sure right now anyway I can debone it and bring it all out including the head in one trip. Obviously I can’t do that and carry my bow and camp too. So the camp would again get stashed as I bring the meat out and go back in the following weekend with the goats and bring camp back out. What I'm looking into right now though is maybe bringing in a hot wire with a battery and solar power to keep it charged. Then I can fence the goats in or any would be predators out while I am hunting. If they close my elk hunting roads off I really hope to be able to pull the hot wire fence thing off as I would want the goats to help pack out the meat as well but again I don’t want to hunt with them. If anyone knows of some adult goats I can get fairly reasonable please let me know. I have been checking craigslist and some of the prices are a little out there. Thanks for all the advice here and pictures too from everyone. I will post pic’s as I go. This weekend may be the first trip for the little ones just to hike in and out to see how well they do. GBA

Wow, awesome buck! he is a very pretty deer. Are you having him mounted. If so post up some pics when you get him back. GBA

Awesome mount Clay, thanks for Sharing. GBA

They have OTC elk tags for many of those areas that F&G don't want them in. I doubt a draw will ever be had for those that far south. I've seen many elk by lower clear creek not far from 260 and a few in the sunflower area over the years. By the way, those OTC tags gives you an opportunity to tag a bull in velvet too. I think that would be both rare and awesome. GBA

I don’t believe antler restrictions will get you anything and I’m one who likes to hunt every year and NOT have to draw tags. . I hunt one unit for a few days by back packing in. I hunt another on weekends or just day hunts. I like the freedom of those options. As for hunting pressure...first off as one other poster mentioned if you want to get away from the crowd you can do it in most any unit, that is if you want to go to the effort. Second thing is a big mature buck will go nocturnal or skip out of the area if the pressure is too much. I hunt WT in Michigan and have seen this pattern for years. If you want that big buck figure out where he goes when the pressure in that particular area he was or is living in gets hammered with hunters. The thing with lower Michigan is it all private property so the hunters don’t have the opportunity to move much like we do here. We are very fortunate with that. IMO, it is predators that hurt our herds and that is what we need to control better. We can only hunt during daylight hours except for mountain lion. Predators hunt 24/7 and there are a LOT more of them in the field than there is of us. BTW, Utah just went to a $50 dollar bounty for coyotes. I like that! Thin the predators you will grow bigger antlers and herds and STILL keep opportunity to hunt every year. GBA

Sounds like you’re in a heck of a predicament. If the shade trees are close enough I would probably slip a blowgun out the crack of a window or door. They are quiet and deadly. Then get a cat to sneak in and haul the carcass away. Ha ha ha LOL. Good luck with that! GBA

BB gun no...How about a blow dart tube? Now that could be a hoot! Or maybe get real good at a sling shot?? GBA

Southernxpress, I’m not sure how I missed this thread yesterday but I am really impressed with your post and pictures. Sorry to hear you weren’t successful, I was rooting for you. Thanks for sharing the post and the pics. Awesome. I just packed into my area to retrieve my game camera 5.2 miles one way. I humped in nearly a 60 pound pack, a lot of it for convenience some of it to stash for a future hunt in December and most of it to keep myself in packing shape. I kept thinking about how your hunt was going and how well the goats were working out for you. Glad to hear it went pretty smooth. PM sent GBA

Jim, awesome buck and even better that you were willing to take someone in to harvest it. That’s got to be the most selfless act of any hunter I have ever known. I'm shocked you didn’t kept that gnarly buck all to yourself. Good on you and great job getting your hunting buddy in on it. I love the camp and back packing hunts are my favorite hunts to do. Those Mountain House foods are great aren’t they? Some Whitetail buck back straps would really go great with them too! Congrats! GBA

I think the 2 things I would do is thoroughly wash the meat and then remove a thin outside layer. Anything came in contact with your hands, hide or hair I would cut off. Anything inside should be fine. If it still smells its probably spoiled although i kind of doubt that. Shouldn't have went bad over night. By the way, you got pic's of your harvest??