TLH

Pick up a ZEBU cow decoy and try it out. If you don't or can't sit water these things work. I have seen 4 hunters kill their bucks in 4 years with the ZEBU...you can get behind it and walk up to the antelope. They will shy off a few times but if you stay on the same herd with the same buck they will calm down and get used to the :cow" that keeps bugging them. Learn your bow--practice as much as you can out to yards you would never want to shoot...if you can hit a paper plate at 80 yards consistently you will have no problems hitting and killing your buck at 60 yards. And always remember IT CAN BE DONE! Good luck to you! I am envious!

This is good reading! Keep it going... By the way--who will be at the meeting July 9th @ 3 pm to try and talk the game and fish and the Fort McDowell folks into letting us hunt with our bows? Politics are tricky aren't they?

Very well said larry. Great post!

Jim, I have never met your wife but i have spoke to you many times. You are a good man and i hope that you and your wife will have peace of mind and a long life together. God can do miracles and you must keep him in your heart and in your mind. My family will pray for both of you. God bless you and your wife Jim.

Thank you TJ--that means a lot to me. Don't forget that Gateway will have their Antelope Seminar soon! It should be a lot of fun!!! Marshall, as usual man it was great to speak with you! Terry

David, You can not put a price on your time or your sweat--once that day goes away you can not get it back and no money can buy it back. A person who donates their time are the ones that give the most. Good for you and people like you--we need more.

Allen and all, I was named the Regional Director to The Mule Deer Foundation and i want to work with all groups and anyone who would want to help our mule deer. I believe the ADA is a good group and i know they will continue to grow and build on what they have accomplished in the past and i want to work with the ADA if they need help. The AES was the only group i am a life time member but now i believe so highly in what the MDF is about that i paid my dues and became a life member with them as well. I hope we can grow the MDF all over the state and i would be happy to answer any questions that anyone has about the MDF. I am not officially working with the MDF but that starts on Monday. I would be happy to drive anywhere in the state to speak to anyone who would want to start a chapter or just be a member of the MDF. I am a lover of desert mule deer and i feel they need a lot of help and i want to help them as much as the MDF and i possibly can. Donnie and Troy would be perfect to help on any projects they may have and i will be there with shovel in hand to help them. I know there are many more people who would like to see our mule deer herd grow back into the herd we had in the late 80's--what a sight it was to see 25 or 30 deer marching up a canyon--i miss that and i know all of you do too. I would like to take a drive through Flagstaff and Prescott and see more mule deer and with all of your help we can work toward that goal. The MDF has started a youth program in the past year and you all know that the AES, ADA, www.thearizonahunter.com and many others hold youth camps in this state and the MDF is ready to help with those camps as well; and these are another way to help with our youth and our state. The youth are our future and there is nothing better than to see the look of a young one waking in the morning and knowing they are going to hunt deer or elk or Javelina just like their Dad and Mom and Aunts and Uncles have for centuries. Even if you do not want to belong to an ORG. that does not mean you can not help with any or all of those groups that have projects...get involved in one way or another to help our state and help our animals and our youth. My number is 623-696-5579 and you can call me anytime you have a question--i don't have all the answers but i am sure we can find those answers together. Terry Herndon

Coach, i have some one that is interested...do you still have the camera???

I wanted to follow up on a project we worked on in 44A this weekend. We had 15 grown ups and about that many kids there to help us out--well maybe the 2 and 4 year old girls didn't help much but they sure were cute! We got busy Saturday morning and by 6 that night we had about 90% of the work finished. It was a lot of fun but it was warm. Sunday we had 4 of the 15 left but that was all we needed. It was a good mixture of talent and hard working folks and now the deer have a little better chance out there to survive this summer. On a side note--we need to get out and do our part with the predators. I know we must have spoke of that issue at least 100 times at the project and we all agree too many coyote's and too many lions out there. Right now the area we worked on has only about 50 to 70 deer in that range--a few years back there were over 170 deer in there. Check out the new regs and especially about the lions--there are some huge changes this year that we all need to understand and take advantage of. Thanks again to all of you for helping and to all of you who wanted to come but had issues--there are always other projects and there is always a need for volunteers. If you all want to see how we did you can go here http://www.thearizonahunter.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=7332 and look at pictures and read all about it. Terry

Justin, how about the 7W AES project coming up? If you want to go i will meet you there!

That cracks me up!!! That backhoe knew who was boss!

I assure you Marshall--at least one will and he will wear your tag in pride!!!

I think it is more about genetics than cooler, wetter, or hotter weather. If we were like Wyoming where they freeze all the time i think it would have a huge influence on horn growth---remember that horns are made out of hair and the same thing we have in our fingernails. If our fingernails freeze they will stop growing or fall off. The bucks in Unit 21 are pretty much from Utah and Colorado i believe and the genetics are just not there to grow 90" bucks--however, there were some big bucks in there many years ago and the blood is still there so eventually the bucks will start getting bigger (IMO) 19A has always had monsters in there but what a lot of folks do not realize is that the majority of those antelope were taken off of the Anderson Mesa back in the day so you know that the genetics are on the Anderson and all through 5B and 5A...ironically the game and fish transplanted a bunch of antelope back to the Anderson and 5A from 19A a few years ago.

Leadership will change for the ADA and that new leadership will have a lot of work to get it back to the ADA it once was. The ADA is not the only group who will struggle because of this--there are several who have AZSFW members who are at the top of the board. The USA will change leadership and it will also have a lot of work to get back to where it used to be...far fetched? Maybe but it shows when one or two people have an agenda it can tear a group apart at the seems. It will be a struggle for all of us to move on but move on we must. You do not have to forgive or forget but we do have a lot in front of us that needs the energy spent on this issue and we can not achieve the things that need to be done by beating a horse that may or may not be dead any further. I would like to see a lot of you at the waterhole project coming this weekend if at all possible. If you need info let me know and we will be there to use this energy on something that WILL make a difference.

It is a good unit and the time of year will be better than the past three years--you will have a good hunt. Like slim said take a hike and check it out. Just as a reminder--the travel management rule has taken over so make sure you get a new map with the road closures on it.

Do yourself and many others on this site a favor and review from the AZGFD reports on just where the funds for deer have been spent. There is a common misrepresentation on many forums that "most of the money goes north of the ditch". That is just not true. Ruth Gregory in the big game branch has all the funding numbers for ALL of the state. Get a copy and review just where the money has been spent. You will be surprised. Then go back 4 years and you will find that the land north of the ditch has received much less than that "small area" you referenced. You seem to have enough of an intellect to figure out that much of what is said on these sits is just not true.... but very popular. Then review the "grading reports" that the AZGFD puts together for ALL the HPC proposals. Who is at fault when a particular region places proposals that are 1) incomplete 2)Do not have NEPA or Arc work done 3) have no local commitment for matching funds 4)do not supply maps, photos or important data 5) have no ranching support or access agreements. I wonder if you will take the time to chase down this story ...... John, I don't recall saying anything about money spent. I said focus. You were at the meeting, how much time did Brian spend on the Kiabab and the strip? Most of the time Brian was going over that data. How many collared mule deer are there on the Kiabab right now... 20? How many collard mule deer are in the rest of the state? And why the heck are we collaring deer on the Kiabab? We know they are there. Its a strong deer herd, so strong that the dept feels its ok to have a doe hunt. How about the deer in region 4? I don't see anyone trying to spend $90,000 to collar 20 deer there. "I wonder if you will take the time to chase down this story ......" Partner, I respect your opinion and position but I do not appriciate your combative approach. I'm not here to fight with you and if you read thru all my posts on this thread you'll see that I'm trying to bridge a gap that was created by a bad bill and those that supported it. I'm trying to get the average hunter involved in the process. Does that threaten you in some way? And who was the last guy you tried to call out? George from Yuma Valley right? I might be uneducated as of now but I know for a fact that George knows a thing or two. And how has your current approach worked so far? Should we discuss your conversation with the commission on Saturday? Oh and yes, I am involving and educating myself in the process and I will be looking at all kinds of numbers very soon. Donnie Nothing combative about my query. There have been many statements that the ADA only cares about deer north of the Colorado. If you were to take the time and do the readings, you would find that the ADA funded the 3Bar study and that cost us over $50,000.00 to do. It involved capturing 20 does that were pregnant, inserting an IUD that was expunged when the doe gave birth. Then we tracked the device to the exact location and collared the fawns. From that point the fawns were then tracked until the collar indicated that they had been killed. The information proved that in an area with NO predators, the mule deer survival rate was close to 90%. Immediately adjacent to that area the fawn survival rate was less than 25%. I have tried calling you, but you do not seem to answer. I wonder why you approached only the ADBSS at the meeting and not the ADA? It seems too easy to shoot at the ADA when having a conversation would solve some of the problems. There is a lot to learn if you are just stepping into the arena of conservation. I would pose the same question to you ... what are you afraid of in talking to me or the ADA?.. John, just for curiosity can you show me how many times people had said that the ADA is only concerned with the herd north of the Colorado River?? I have not read those posts and would like to see them if you have a link to them. Thanks!

Ernesto i think he is saying it comes with scope rings not with a scope---I bet it is a heck of a rifle though and i would love to have it!!

Geez George... If I were a betting man, I would say that it is Comm1 writing your responses. I have watched your posts and I would say that half the time it is Robbie doing the posting. If you want to believe that all is great from the Carefree towers, so be it. I will continue to think differently. I will hope that an agency that is over 90 million dollars will show us what is behind the curtains. Man.....and I am the one worried about helicopters and conspiracy, now there is a hidden curtain......wow, my trust getting stronger and stronger by the post.............I think I will just go adopt a trick tank or something. Now that is the best idea i have seen--the adopt a tank program is a good one and the WM's need all the help they can get and so do the critters that use them.

You can thank the late Norm Pint for this great law--even though Norm does not know he had anything to do with it. It was he who crashed his truck and was killed on his way to help one of his family members on a hunt. Norm finally drew his Bighorn Sheep tag but as fate would have it he died before he could hunt that dream animal. His family wanted to sign the tag over to his grandson but the law was not in place yet so they did the next best thing and signed it over to Hunt of a Lifetime and a Young man who had terminal cancer was able to kill a beautiful ram. The department then seen that this should be something people could do and they went ahead with the new law and now we have what we have. Is it corrupt? heck no it isn't but the people who abuse it are---and that is a shame.

I think we all need to realize that this state has more than huntable wildlife in it and therefor we have to understand that there will be those people in the department who will work with those species--why would you need a hunter to count how many Bats have white nose diseases? The department is the way it is because the state is the way it is and it isn't all hunters. Diversity is the the way it is and it will always be--try to make it any other way would be a defeat to those who will try. I do believe that we can speak out when we do not agree with what the department does but there still has to be a middle ground--even if we hunters are paying the lion share of the bills...if the other side started paying the lion share of the bills we would lose everything we love very fast..

Don, If you read my post it is very clear that I am perplexed, out of touch and now need to get a life. I am OK with that, I hear that all the time from my 7th and 8th grade students, I am used to it. I went ahead and visited your guide service site and read up on what it says there about you, seems to me like you have done alot of good for alot of people, served our country which I am every day thankful for those who serve us. You seem from a distance via internet to do alot of good for hunting and fishing in the state of Arizona. You won't find much on me, I teach Jr. High wood shop, got 4 more years before I get out of education and do something different. I have 4 boys a great wife and am enjoying my 52 birthday today.....at work, keeping an eye on my detention class. I spend 8 months out of the year coaching wrestling, even though I played basketball in high school, sat the bench is more like it. My boys drug me into wrestling. I like to hunt, fish, look for sheds and enjoy the great outdoors Arizona has to offer. I don't worry too much about helicopters. My wife bought me a one day lesson down in Tucson for my birthday one year. Loved it, but my hat off to those who can fly one of those birds. I never said I didn't believe we needed to worry about this "urgent" issue but your response to my question is what really worries me. And I quote: Wow was I ever able to "brainwash" this bunch who apparently don't know how their constituency feels about this made up issue that I'm helping spread all over the sportsmen internet sites. End quote!! This makes me believe you would rather us who need to get a life would not ask any questions and just go with what ever dog wags the tail. A bill like HB2072 can get pushed before powers that be, unknown to the "constituency", the "constituency" gets told that the bill is dead and gone. Now these same people are "warning" me about another "urgent" decision being made. You tell me Don. What am I to believe? I don't have any record book trophies, I get an elk tag every once in a while, a deer tag about every year cause I put in for high draw percentage ratio units like 27, never killed a pig, bear, lion,sheep or antelope. I love busting a coyote once in a while. I am committed more than ever before to helping with hunting and fishing conditions in the state of Arizona.I have done more reading on this subject(AZ wildlife etc.) in the past three months than I have in the previous 50+ years. I am not looking for conspiracy, just somebody honest enough to come clean on what is really going on out there. That is one awesome post buddy!! Sometimes the passion will make us mad enough to write something we should have re-read prior to hitting the send button. In your case i appreciate your tact and your wit at the same time. P.S. Your boys are awesome for getting you away from B-ball and on the mat! May i ask what school you coach at??

No one will or can stop it if Obama signs into law. Clinton left us with all kinds of Monuments just before he left office--he didn't have to get approval from anyone all he had to do was wave his wand (or cigar) and poof we had more Monuments we didn't need.... This is something to be very concerned about and we all need to try and do what we can to stop it. If we make our voices loud enough we may be able to stop it but knowing how Obama is he will sign it just in spite because he doesn't like the leadership in Arizona--yes he is that way.

I have 10 but i don't care if i ever get drawn again--i have had two archery tags, one muzzy tag and one rifle tag--i am 53 years old. My Dad is 77 and has 22 BPS--he didn't take hunters safety so i guess he is out 1 point?? I have done the tri-fecta here in AZ!

Our system is the best system out there. Everyone has a shot with this system. This is my opinion only for what it is worth. By the way--my dad hasn't been drawn for antelope ever and he is 77 years old-----

Check it under your brothers info--it may show there.