javihammer

Beavis – Uhhhh….Hey Butthead, what is that meeting about again? Butthead – Uhhh, like we need to interview and pick Conditioners or something Beavis – Uhhhh, okay….uhhhh…..How do we do it? Butthead – Uhhhhh huh huh….We need pick at least two people dude, five max, and there are like eleventeen of em…don’t worry I already know which ones Don wants us to pick for Jane……pick these two guys. Give these guys 10 points and trust me…we have almost half the points dude. We can override the the other three on the appointment board. Give the other candidates zero points… our two guys cannot lose. We can even have the total score put into the public notes…. pretty smart huh….huh…huhhu….kind of a wink to show which one was our favorite. Beavis – Huh huh….okay, smart…..what if I get confused? Butthead – Uhh, my wife is a lobbyist for these dudes, we can call her, lobbyists are the only ones we can talk to according to the rules I helped write. Pretend you don’t know me though, since we are both members of Arizona People Exploiting Wildlife. Beavis – uhhhh….You mean AZPEW right? Butthead – uhhhhh….yeah AZPEW…..by the way my wife is like their only officially paid employee….she practically writes her own checks…she also works for AZPEWC, they make license plates. License plates are cool, they have like letters AND numbers on em….and colors……and stickers... Beavis – uhhhh huh huh….uhhh…..Sweet!….license plates are shiny and stuff, I can stare at them for hours. What do we do until it is time to vote? Butthead – uhhh…….I will ask smart questions about money, this guy needs to be hungry for money. AZGFD is like a $100,000 dollar agency….Uhhhhh…He needs to be someone willing to sell lots of game tags for money….lots of em, Don said so. Expos…auction tags…..Don likes expos….raffles…lots of em…this guy must like expos…… no one else better ask about money, I want that question, I will tell the other interviewers that I called that question.....I used to be a Conditioner, I deserve to ask the money questions dangit! Beavis – Uhhhhh…..so what do I ask about? Butthead – Uhhhh…..ask about wolves, everybody hates wolves. Don loves….I mean hates wolves, ask all of the interview candidates about wolves…..they need to hate wolves……huh huh….huh Beavis – Uhhhhh…..okay……wolves are big and bad, they eat little piggies…my Mom read me a story about them once…I WILL ask about wolves…..thanks for the idea Butthead Butthead – Uhhhh…uhhh…huh……Just remember, we don’t know each other, the rules say you need to be unasphyxiated with other wildlife groups…..do not mention you are with AZPEW, you are supposed to be an individual…. Some granola chick from Tucson will jump all over you if she sees the puppet strings attached to your back. Beavis – Uhhhhh….got it…..been picking winners all my life. See you at the interview meetings Butthead, I hope we get the hamburger we were promised at the Expo this year if Jane picks OUR guy as the new Conditioner. Butthead – Uhhhh…Hamburgers are cool, see you at the meeting Beavis. uhhhh….huhhuh

Got it, AWF is solid. I support them and hope others will become members too. Ryan Ryan

AWF is a GREAT group, I accept that they have never had any ties to AZSFW or AZSFWC. I just came across this on their website http://www.azwildlife.org/ht/d/sp/i/60463/pid/60463 and thought they might want to remove it, it happens to be on an obscure page. Am I missing something?...maybe I am I am going to join this group myself and was not implying they were anything other than people that would be welcome anytime at my campfire. I really appreciate the time they spent to create such a well formulated rebuttal. Ryan

Coconino Sportsman and Hunt of a lifetime are the newest wildlife groups added to the good guy list. I have limited contact information for them right now, I will try to get it out there soon so that all of us can send them a note of appreciation and support. I have changed them to green on my original post for this thread. Congratulations guys! Keep em comin' Ryan

Awesome letter by AWF and I saw many of my favorite businesses listed as sponsors of their organization. One of those organizations was PSE Archery, they are an Arizona company and I felt some Arizona pride when I saw they support an organization like AWF which seems to share my values. My first hunting bow was a PSE almost thirty years ago, great bow. I refuse to buy Hoyt archery products (a Utah company)since they advertise boondoggles with SFW and Don Peay. I have one little problem with the AWF website though, I was surfing their website and had my eyes assaulted by that conservation license plate with AZSFWC listed above it. I would join as a AWF member tonight if the license plate were to be removed from their website, at least until there is a legit board or group directing how the license plate funds are being distributed. I am sure the license plate thing was an oversite by AWF, I also know it is kind of sticky because the license plate is kind of a golden goose, unfortunately the goose is being used improperly right now and needs to go back in the cage until we finish the cleanup. Ryan

Fantastic news, I will update the green list thread to reflect two new good guys. Thanks George!

We do not negotiate with tag terrorists, especially the ones that are too self absorbed to realize they have almost no leverage.

The groups in green have come out against the AZSFW and the concept of HB 2072. These are the confirmed good guys right now. I know other groups are having meetings and I will change them to green when they make a statement. Green = good guys. I was going to color the rest yellow as "proceed with caution" but it was hard to read. Once again, green status means that the group supports the interests of average joe hunters, it has nothing to do with environmentalism or anything. Maybe I should have chosen a better classification system. Maybe I still will .

We as taxpayers pay the Governor and her aides and AZSFW is wasting our public dollars by wasting our Governors time trying to push something 99% of hunters, the AZGFD Commission and the majority of senior staff at the AZGFD department do not support. I find Governor Brewer's decision to even hear them to be pretty offensive. HB 2072 makes no sense economically because it could actually reduce license revenue (raffle tags do not require a license up front) and will lower auction tag prices in an environment where auction tag prices are generally going down anyway. I have no problem with 3 governor tags (what we have now) for each species selling for $150K+ at a critter banquet, I have a big problem with 50 tags selling for 20K a piece because the auction tag market is flooded. This bill is an economic sham and I would seriously lose a ton of respect for Governor Brewer if she hadnt figured that out after the first paragraph or two. I would compare it to taking a $1000 gun to a pawn shop and getting $10 and saying, "at least we got some money, we needed more money". Even worse, allowing the $10 to be controlled by AZ(SFW) would be like seeing that $10 spent on cigarettes and booze. It seems another Gilstrap was involved with a similar idea to create barriers to entry for average joes, here is an article from 2005 about "premium" tag pricing (senate bill 1365). Once again they spin it as adding to department revenues but in reality it is just manufactured barrier to keep the average joe numbers down to improve opportunity for people with means. It was shot down for good reason. See below for Hays Gilstraps comments on that one. Sound familiar? http://www.azcentral.com/travel/arizona/outdoors/articles/0512outmain0512.html Ryan

OOPS...Sorry for being wrong about Suzane Gilstrap being at the meeting. I came in after the introductions and thought I heard someone address her as Suzane. I hadn’t eaten since 11AM and the lure of Carls Jr overrode my desire to stick around and confirm her identity before I left. Dumb assumption, I own the bonehead card for that one. As for the ADA direction, I would hope the position statement condemns the concept and not just the approach of HB 2072. Ms America could serve me dog food on a gold plate and I still wouldn’t eat it. The concept of eating dog food is the problem. Hopefully future position statements will be free of the term “as written”. Ryan

+1 on what everyone else said, the ADA deserves kudos for allowing enough time for good discussion. There appeared to be some good people on that board and I hope they make the right decision. I also thought it was weird that the AZSFW lobbyist was sitting up there with the ADA board but whatever, it was an ADA meeting and I was a guest so I will not speculate. Just an observation - I noticed Amanda (coueswhitetail.com owner) looked really tired last night. All the passionate keyboardists from around the country should consider sending some support for her website, it was clear she is one of the good people and probably came close to personal burnout on this issue. Our group raised $180.00 but it would be nice if Amanda could be assured the financial part of her website is covered while she continues to be an honest broker for sportsman on both sides of the aisle. There is little doubt Amanda's website provides value to people outside the borders of Arizona (including all the bonus info about our cool little Arizona whitetail deer). If you care, let actions speak and send coueswhitetail.com a couple dollars. I am not affiliated with her website, I just think it is the right thing to do. Ryan

I have a hard time understanding why any company would want to share a fraction of a small wealth market (with expo conditions) when they could have an entire market of Average Joes all over the Western US for almost nothing. If I were a large company with many competitors and little differentiation between products I would consider hitching my wagon to or helping to create an organization that advocates for Hunt Opportunity rights. This company would realize immediate goodwill by being the front runner during the inception of such an organization. Even a public statement that they refuse to participate in private expos involving tag auctions would give this company instant recognition. There can only be one "first" company to do this, when it happens it will go viral. I think a good name for this organization would be the Western Hunt Opportunity Association, (WHOA!)...the same thing we all say when they try to pass another crappy bill. There is a big company in Southern Arizona that has a direct competitor in Salt Lake City. The Arizona company makes good products, my Dad bought me one at Sunbird archery (35th ave and camelback in Phoenix) for my 10th birthday (Phaser 2). I killed a lot of squirrels, rocks and rabbits with that bow (and missed a few deer). There will be a small group of highly motivated regular Arizona hunters discussing current issues and hunter advocacy options this Tuesday. We could probably scrounge up an extra seat if someone from this Arizona company or another like minded company were to have an interest in joining us (Mesa Bass Pro 2/21/12, at 515 PM). Thanks to Amanda and CW.com for being the home field for the good guys in Arizona. It is kind of ironic that a website that puts the spotlight on the often underappreciated Arizona coues deer is supporting the mostly quiet voices of the Arizona hunting majority. Ryan

I think you and I are saying the same thing Elkaholic. The ISE show has been around a while but the very close partnership between the ISE sponsors and the ADA (brokered more than likely by the AZSFW) looks new to me. I went to an ADA banquet a couple years ago and there was no association with any “expos” at that time. My concern would be that the AZSFW would use this partnership with the ISE to either argue for an expo of their own or buy/change the name of the ISE expo (which would by default give the steering wheel to the SFW home office in SLC). Kind of a pilot project if you will. There is also little doubt that the BS about all of the money generated from the raffle and auction tags (and non-resident tax revenue) sold at such an expo would make for good campaign propaganda for the next political campaign for Weiers (like a run for mayor in Glendale). The bottom line is that the AZSFW and the AZSFWC are playing matchmaker for entities that are working against the vast majority of hunter’s interests in Arizona. It is important that well meaning hunters know that paying for tickets to walk through the ISE expo or attending a banquet sponsored by the primary critter group members linked to the AZSFW could be (and almost certainly are) paying the people working to steal their hunt opportunity. Even if you attend one of these things and spend no money, your attendance there will still be used to support some bogus arbitrary projection about all the dollars you generated for ………fill in the blank. One more thing about the ADA banquet. Admission is generally purchased by buying a table (well in advance of the banquet). There are plenty of wealthy people willing to buy tables but it is often difficult to actually fill those tables with people. These banquets are a casino atmosphere with auctions and swag all over the place, the key is to get bodies in the door. I would have to imagine that even if the tables are sold for the ADA banquet that no one outside of the outdoor industry people will want to show their face for fear of being linked to all the dirty orgs that have surfaced over the last month. The auction bidders usually bid by proxy so they aren’t even onsite. I am really interested in what the actual attendence to the banquet itself will be. I have no problem with a free standing critter banquet with a couple of big money auction tags, I just don’t agree with an organization like AZSFW or AZSFWC having anything to do with them or the banquet itself being linked to some “expo”. There are more than a couple good guys at the ADA that will put their foot down on this, sure hope it gets corrected before the banquet. Ryan AZSFWC CONSERVATION LICENSE PLATES = LESS HUNT OPPORTUNITY (TAKE EM OFF)

Apparently Arizona already has an expo and the AZSFW/AZSFWC/SFW have their fingers all over it. This expo is next weekend and speaks to the timing of the HB 2072 tag grab. These az clowns were so confident they started building the tag store before they even had the tags to sell. I have also heard Jerry Wiers is considering a run for mayor of Glendale where the ISE show is being held. As a kid that grew up in Glendale, I am going to be all over that campaign. Even more interesting is that “John Kirk” at sportsexpos.com said his company is setting these expos all over the west (they have one in Vegas in a couple weeks). Looks alot like the SFW expo in SLC city to me. These expos will wither and die without tags to auction and raffle, THIS IS WHY HB 2072 is so important to Arizonans and other Average Joe hunters throughout the West. SFW isnt a conservation organization, they are a wildlife business promotion company. And the numbers dont lie. Also interesting is why the ADA picked 2/21/12 to meet about their future with AZSFW. The ISE show starts the very next day which would be too late for us to put much pressure on their banquet attendance and by association the ISE expo attendance (the ADA is giving free admission to the ISE show - it actually seems like the banquet is a sideshow to the ISE show. What a bunch of snakes. PLEASE READ THE ARTICLE BELOW (specifically Pete Cimerellos comments). Ryan http://www.skinnymoose.com/desertrat/2012/02/17/the-arizona-deer-association-ada-hosts-annual-banquet-at-ise/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-arizona-deer-association-ada-hosts-annual-banquet-at-ise For Immediate Release: February 3, 2012 The Arizona Deer Association (ADA) Hosts annual Fundraising Banquet in partnership with the International Sportsmen’s Expo Glendale, AZ: The Arizona Deer Association (ADA) will host its annual fundraising dinner in partnership with the 12th annual International Sportsmen’s Exposition(ISE) at the University of Phoenix Stadium. The show runs February 22‐26. Doors for the banquet open at 4 p.m. on Saturday, February 25. Tickets to the banquet are $70 each, which includes admission to the ISE, whereanglers, hunters and outdoor enthusiasts enjoy the latest in products and services, plus celebrity guest appearances, clinics and free giveaways. Guests are encouraged to enjoy the Expo and finish the day with a relaxing meal, followed by anopportunity to discover more about ADA’s wildlife preservation initiatives. Casualattire is welcome. ADA will offer banquet guests the opportunity to bid for three coveted Arizona State Commissioner’s tags not available through the regular Game & Fishdrawing for Black Bear, Mule Deer and Coues Whitetail Deer. These tags,valued between $5,000 and $200,000, allow the winning bidders to huntstatewide for a full year, between August 15, 2012 and August 14, 2013 invirtually every open unit for those species. The banquet will also feature a silent auction, where hot items such as firearms,outdoor gear, artwork, vacation packages and more will offer fodder for competitionduring the evening.“We’re partnering with the Sportsman’s Expo to promote our message ofconservation,” said Pete Cimellaro, ADA board member and chairman for thebanquet and this year’s ISE event. “Many don’t realize that game and fishingsportsmen are also ardent conservationists. Our efforts to preserve the naturalhabitat for, and expand the population of Arizona’s wildlife is a message we want to share with young people especially, and the ISE is a fantastic family event.” To purchase tickets for the banquet that includes admission to the International Sportsmen’s Expo, visit http://www.azdeer.org/2012_banquet/2012_banquet.htm ### A private, nonprofit organization, the Arizona Deer Association (ADA)passionately protects and preserves Arizona’s natural habitat to ensure theexpansion of the mule deer and Coues’ deer herds. Resources derived fromfundraising efforts underwrite continuous efforts that support outreach,research, awareness, programs and education to that end, working in partnership with the Arizona Department of Game & Fish. For further information, visit www.azdeer.org Media Contact Scott Kelly, Black Dog Promotions 4802063435 scott@blackdogpromotions.com

I know this is a long reply but I couldn’t resist the urge to share my point by point analysis about the AZSFW "Open Letter". I agree with Kent that the most important part was the last sentence. Once again, sorry it is so long, gotta take the wife out for a belated Valentines day meal tonight so I had to do a quick brain dump. “In our effort to improve things that we see as very problematic for sportsmen and wildlife, we made a significant error in not providing information to the Sportsmen community on HB 2072 before introducing it at the Legislature" I figured they would blame the outrage on "communication", the most predictable and mindless response possible. By the way AZSFW, the problem with HB 2072 was 1% communication and 99% because the bill is a piece of garbage. “For the record, AZSFW is not a chapter nor an affiliate of Utah SFW. Having said that, we do believe they have had very positive impacts on improving wildlife habitat and increasing tags for hunters.” Oh okay…….a true insult to the intelligence of anyone that reads this. Whatever. “Our wildlife herds have been slowly declining or have at best remained status quo over the past 16 years despite significant increases in the Arizona Game and Fish Department’s (AZGFD) annual budget and the efforts of the species conservation organizations to improve their habitat by spending millions over this same period.” So you provide statistics about permit availability to support your reduced wildlife numbers claim, another insult to our intelligence. Smart people know that permit numbers can be influenced by many factors other than actual wildlife numbers and herd health. In fact, most of the people on the AZSFW advocate against increasing permits in order to keep the big 200 inch deer alive for their auction buddies, too risky to let too many unguided Average Joes out there to actually hunt them. It would be a real shame if a big deer hit the dirt without some guide getting some money and a grip-and-grin photo. Wow, you provided harvest success percentages; anyone with common sense knows that harvest rates are generally correlated with permit availability. A truly useless statistic. The slight decrease in harvest success for elk is probably due to the Limited Opportunity hunts that rolled out within the last decade. And for antelope, sheep and buffalo, these species represent statistical outliers; the fact that you even included them undermines the credibility of your statements. As for making use of Big Game funds, I bet the AZGFD leadership and Commission would love to talk about the AZSFW qualifications for wildlife management at the next “AZSFW memo of understanding meeting”. Why don’t you jot down a few AZSFW accomplishments for them before you get there, they may inquire about them. Too bad you didn’t provide an explanation about how you chose to classify the AZGFD expenditure statistics; it would have been fun to pop that hot air balloon. . “We can’t explain why the AZGFD is issuing more elk tags while harvests are declining nor can we explain the continuing reduction in harvests (other than herd size) despite the wide use of game cameras, long range rifles, wide spread use of ATVs and other technical improvements in binoculars, range finders and bow hunting equipment.” Okay, you can stop racking your brains on this, I can explain it. Elk are expanding their range in Arizona and AZGFD is issuing low success Limited Opportunity tags to manage it. I think it is a good thing for everyone. Kudos to AZGFD, more proof they can make lemons into lemonade. “Failure to recruit youth and others to replace sportsmen will force AZGFD to seek other options which the sportsmen will not like such as increasing license and tag fees.” So the AZSFW wants to reduce the number of Average Joes in the field by stealing their tags when many Average Joes are the people that raise kids that value hunting. I would argue that privileged kids have more choices in life which makes them less likely to continue hunting as adults. Once again, the AZSFW offers no actual strategy in this letter for youth. Everybody loves kids, right? This is just a little lube for the next tag grab. Most guys understand tag price increases are somewhat inevitable, most of us would pay a couple bucks more to insure ourselves against the risk of corruption from groups like the AZSFW. “Access to public land is becoming more, not less, difficult. Several factors contribute to this problem including landowners closing access across private lands, increased forest road closures and increased wilderness designations.” So the hotshot AZSFW lobbyists (tongue in cheek) with a limited budget are going to address this global issue affecting the West. As I have stated in prior posts, allocating a budget for this would be a joke. This problem needs to be handled by the government, paying landowners from the proceeds of stolen tags is a poor short term strategy and a long term disaster for Average Joes. Besides, I don’t trust anything with “SFW” in the name to pick and choose which pieces of public land are worth the “grants/payoffs”. “The next referendum to ban mountain lion hunting is coming. The Center for Biological Diversity is holding a seminar on the ecological role of bears, wolves and lions and “how their indiscriminate killing by humans – whether hunters or government agencies—disrupts predator’s social relationships, sparking more conflicts with people”. The AZGFD’s inability to manage mountain lions will be just another and possible final nail in the coffin. Do you know how many deer a lion eats a year? We must be ready to respond when the next issue presents itself.” Didn’t the AZGFD just open night hunting for mountain lions? More fear mongering and aligns nicely with the SFW cry wolf strategy. I think this song is getting a little old. By the way, Arizonan’s have proven with HB 2072 that they know how to identify bad legislation and handle business when we have to. Thanks for the offer to ride shotgun with us though. We know how to contact our legislators on predator issues, please watch for traffic as you exit the vehicle. “The legislation, HB 2072, is meant to create a 3-4 day Sportsmen Expo annually in Arizona . The Expo would generate significant revenues that would be invested in programs specially designed to start bending the trend lines discussed above in a positive direction. It is a big deal - Bigger than anything contemplated so far in Arizona . It would generate about $25 million in new economic activity for our State and her economy.” Show me how you came up with 25 million AZSFW; I would love to dance with you on this one. By the way, the Utah expo is actually receiving less support now. I doubt the market could support another DPee Smooch fest anyway. Auction tags are selling at record lows as the SFW floods the market with new ones. The few high profile tags (like OUR AZ EXPO muley tag) will always sell for a smidgen more every year in order to keep the tag market open, these tags do not represent the auction tag market as a whole. The rich guys know where to buy auction tags, Arizonan’s don’t need another expo full of self righteous mouth breathers to get our auction tags sold for a fair price. And we don’t need any more auction tags either. [/i] “Most of the (raffle) tags described in the legislation (about 276) are existing draw tags and would remain as draw tags but would have special rules beneficial to sportsmen and would only be available at the Expo.” That is the point and the PROBLEM with HB 2072. Adding these raffle tags would actually drive down NR license revenue, screw up the 10% NR tag allocation and would rob Average Joes of hunt opportunity and provide more control to the AZSFWC and reduce the control and dollars to AZGFD though the regular public drawing. Raffle tags don’t actually raise much money anyway when there are a bunch of them (check the Utah expo numbers if you don’t believe me). Thanks for the explanation though, it seems Arizona Sportsman and the Game and Fish Commission had it figured out the first time around when the Commissioners gave it the 5-0 thumbs down. You would think that with over a month to respond the AZSFW would have come up with a more convincing argument for HB 2072……I give this one a D-. I guess there is no way to polish the HB 2072 turd, too bad that turd and the jokers that dropped it are leaving stink on so many historically clean critter groups. The front-line members of the critter groups should be outraged by this “Open Letter” and need to force their leadership to renounce their membership to the AZSFW/AZSFWC/SFW orgs. The AZSFW parasites arrogantly prey on the credibility of the real critter group volunteers that have built their reputations through years of unselfish hard work and personal expense. The critter group bylaws generally allow their front line members to override the decisions of their leadership through a vote so maybe we will see an uprising in the near future. Ryan AZSFWC CONSERVATION PLATES = LESS HUNT OPPORTUNITY (TAKE EM OFF)

TAKE OFF YOUR CONSERVATION LICENSE PLATE – TELL YOUR FRIENDS THE AZSFWC - The AZSFWC derives revenue from the sharp looking "conservation" license plates (the one with all of the Arizona animals on it). The AZSFWC uses the proceeds from the plates to fund the critter groups (like the ADA) for conservation projects through grants. Most of the critter group recipients of the grant money are "members" of the AZSFWC because "members" are given priority for the grant money distribution. The AZSFWC has a "Habitat Commitee" that makes the decision about who gets the money. It should be no surprise that some of the grant "projects" partner with the SFW, and both share public credit for them. One of the conditions for the AZSFWC grant money is for the orgs that receive the money to recognize the AZSFWC for their contributions publicly. It shouldn’t be a surprise that the critter groups that are getting these grants are the same ones making every excuse in the world to maintain a relationship with the AZSFWC. The ADA got far more grant dollars than anyone else last year. Most of the projects are good and legit, the problem is the entity making the decisions and how it is used to leverage support for legislation from legitimate critter groups. The AZSFWC actually gets a "rebate" from the critter groups because the AZSFWC expects their critter group members to donate back to their legislative arm which is the AZSFW. What would happen if all of the members of the AZSFWC were to renounce their membership? Would the state of Arizona still allow the AZSFWC to pimp the license plates? Would another more legit group be able to assume control of this revenue stream? THE AZSFW - The AZSFWC loads the chamber and the AZSFW pulls the trigger. The AZSFW is funded by the same critter groups the AZSFWC gives the grants to, the AZSFW even shares the same mailing address as the AZSFWC. The critter groups derive a significant amount of their money from the legit big money state auction tags, they in turn send some of their proceeds to help fund the AZSFW (kind of a reciprocal thing since the AZSFWC "considers" them for project grants). When the AZSFW is well funded, it can afford to pay the shady lobbyists and legislators to provide influence. Bad legislators (like Wiers) turn their back on the public’s interest and support things that hurt the public (like HB 2072). Super PAC status allows the AZSFW much more freedom to payoff candidates (like Weirs). In order to qualify as a Super PAC the AZSFW need 500 "qualified" individuals to provide non-tax deductible donations of at least $10.00 a piece. I doubt there are 500 "qualified" individuals in Arizona that would pay $10.00 to fund an organization that is out to steal from them (even if it meant they could win a $300 Weatherby Vanguard rifle). Pretty slick really, the AZSFW has built a machine in Arizona where residents actually fund their own flogging (turn license plates into dollars to buy influence to get tags to turn into more dollars to benefit a small group of people in the outdoor industry and their SFW parent = less hunt opportunity for Average Joe’s in Arizona and beyond). Once again, ditch the conservation plate if you like to hunt, leave it on if you want to LOOK like a hunter. Ryan

I REPEAT – THAT CONSERVATION PLATE ON YOUR TRUCK NEEDS TO GO This afternoon I got the AZSFWC “Newsletter” that Desertbull posted on the ADA thread. It came to me directly, so SURPRISE, I guess I am a member of the AZSFW (dry heaves, puking, painful acceptance). I have no idea how I became a member, probably came as membership to something else. I was an ADA member at one time, maybe my AZSFW membership was packaged with it. The funny part was that although the body of the email said AZSFWC, the sender was two email addresses, one from suzane gilstrap at AZSFW and the other was suzane gilstrap at AZSFWC. Even she cannot keep up with all the costume changes, these people are like a Las Vegas magic show. I wonder if they take suggestions, maybe they could be Winnie the Poo tomorrow. ..I bet they would if it meant another auction tag for one of their jackwads. Anyway, the timing of their little propaganda piece was interesting, maybe coincidence….who the heck knows. It is kind of funny that within 24 hours of telling people to not buy the conservation plate, I get a solicitation to buy one myself. Maybe we should buy Suzanne Gilstrap lunch since her Barney Fife bobbles seem to be helping the cause of the Anti-AZSFW more than anything else. George, you seem like part of the white hat club. I look forward to meeting with you next week. I hope it is becoming clearer that the AZSFWC needs some leadership changes at the highest levels or this crap will continue. They are potentially more dangerous than the AZSFW with the current leadership they have, I wouldn’t touch them (or advertise their plate on my truck) until all the vermin is purged from their organization. I understand critter groups need money, but $112,000 in grant money spread over all of their critter groups isn’t worth making a deal with the tag stealing devil. The regular members of the critter groups should be clarifying that point with their leadership; I would say they even have an obligation to their fellow hunters to do so. Thom C, there are a whole bunch of us that agree with you, hunters shouldn’t have to carouse with snakes to keep on hunting. That is why several of us have been on a crusade against the AZSFW for the last month. You should join us at the ADA meeting next Tuesday. One of the most decent guys I know is a member of the ADA, he has even been part of some of the AZSFWC funded ADA projects. I love the guy but wish he would look elsewhere to fund his projects. One more thing. I am not a lobbyist. I do not work in the outdoor industry, there is nothing in this for me other than the peace I feel for doing the best I can. I am a happily married father of three minor children and I want them to enjoy hunting as I have. The arrogance of the SFW, AZSFW, AZSFWC, Wiers, Denham, and the Gilstrap’s about the HB 2072 tag theft fuels my personal crusade against them. I have to admit, the first arrogant Weirs memo about HB 2072 is what really pushed me over the edge. I am committed to preventing tag thefts and realize this is a process that will not end next Tuesday, it is something I am prepared to fight for a looooong time if needed. People that steal from my kids (and Average Joes) really piss me off. Ryan

George, please save me a seat at the restaurant for the pre-meeting next tuesday. I am looking forward to seeing the letter from the AZSFW, circling the lies will be almost as fun as a crossword puzzle. Ryan

Let me be the first to pledge $10 to Kent's mystery envelope. Ryan

Okay guys, no question about my anti-SFW and AZSFW (they are really both the same ) point of view. How many people on this board are anti-SFW and would be willing to meet-up prior to the ADA meeting to talk through additional areas of discovery and an action plan based on the outcome of this meeting? I am like Kent, I am not whining, I am looking for action. We can meet in person or via conference call (I do not have a personal conference call number and I cannot use the one I use for work…hoping someone else has one). You don’t need to be “qualified”, the fact that you care is qualification enough. Please send me a PM if you are interested. I am in the Phoenix area. Non-residents with good input are also welcome to join us. I think Kent’s question about the status of the AZSFW Super PAC requalification requires some work, someone should get those details (do qualifying donations come from AZ residents only? Can something be given in return - like a magazine membership?). I am hoping the ADA at least has the sense to ban a table at the banquet that would allow the AZSFW to recruit membership. Same situation with the yearly AZGFD expo (ban the AZSFW - however there are some options to make that pretty ineffective if they do). I went to grad school with some lobbyists (one now reports to Jan), I can probably ping them for clarification on any points of confusion on the Super PAC qualification. Did the ADA pay the AZSFW dues yet? (Kent asked the question, would the AZ Secretary of State have that answer?). It is a yes or no question that will come out eventually, no harm in clarifying if someone knows the answer. Does anyone know how much our muley tag sold for at the SFW expo last year? I would also like to know the numbers about the other comparable tags that have sold within the last year or two. Seems pretty stupid for Utah to get the benefit of exposure of that tag (and blah blah, I know we didn’t pay a brokerage fee and that the money comes back to Arizona….still stupid). Just for kicks, I went and looked on a Utah board on another website and the biggest topic was our expo auction AZ muley tag…..they thought $220,000 was awesome….drunk on SFW Koolaid I guess. No wonder the Utah situation is so screwed up. Anyone that cares about Arizona Hunt Opportunity needs to get engaged with this. Control (stealing) of tags for financial gain is the core mission of the very well funded SFW (and their Arizona branch the AZSFW). They bank on resident hunter apathy, it lets them operate behind the scenes in a sneaky non-confrontational manner. Arizona hunters need to confront the issue and the little rats will scurry when the lights come on. Even if you choose to remain undecided, your presence at this meeting will speak volumes about how Arizona hunters can mobilize and clean house. Amanda has a room at the Bass Pro on 2/21/12 (next Tuesday) to talk about the ADA direction on the AZSFW. Once again, PM me if you are interested in attending the anti-SFW pre-meeting. Let me know where you are and a couple options for when you are available. Ryan

I agree with Chef, numbers matter. I will be there. Ryan

Thanks for the clarification on the strip tag John, it seems like the fiscally responsible thing to do would be to move the tag back to Arizona. Easier said than done I’m sure. So much has been said about the ill will toward the ADA if they choose to stick with and support the AZSFW or the SFW. Can you imagine the positive will that would come from all of the Average Joes and even rags to riches guys across the Western US that would value and respect the gall of the ADA to turn the tables on the AZSFW and SFW. The deliberative (albeit slow) way the ADA has chosen to take a position on their future support of the AZSFW would probably make the decision even more influential to the other undecided wildlife groups. I hope the ADA makes a public statement on this well before the banquet, a positive message to end support of AZSFW would probably improve banquet attendance (my invitation is sitting next to me right now). Arizona hunters are capable of forgiveness and overwhelming support when there is good reason to show it. The ADA should view this as an opportunity and join the short list of groups that were bold enough to change direction on this group when the HB 2072 situation came up. I am honestly amazed that Amanda has kept the dialogue on these issues open for as long as she has, there have been a lot of unkind words (justifiably so) said about some of the people that advertise on her site. The fact that she has weathered this storm shows why CWT is where our own Game and Fish department chooses to clarify issues, that credibility took a long time to build. None of us became addicted to hunting because our Dad’s took us to an expo, we got the bug because our Dad’s took us into the field. This expo thing may look like business as usual to the people in the bubble but it looks like a sad perversion of our sport to the rest of us. Like I said in a previous post, you seem like a nice guy and I honestly think the ADA will do the right thing. Ryan

I looked into the Western Hunting and Conservation Expo that will be in Salt Lake City this weekend. It should be called the "SFW Promotion and Average Hunter Opportunity Degradation Expo". The SFW has a large booth by the front entrance and no less than five affiliate booths spread throughout the room (SFW Wyoming (two booths), SFW New Mexico (one booth), SFW Colorado (one booth), SFW Alaska (at least one booth). They even got the Utah DWR to help promote the event. Their name is even listed on the logo. Some other interesting items of note. I ran the numbers on the 200 auction tags that will be raffled in Utah, I calculated the average dollars generated per tag to be around $6,350/tag (I used their own draw odds table to calculate this...data was from 2011). This is a gross estimate so any fees or other expenses that come off the gross proceeds (not sure what those are) would drive the net proceeds down. If a guy were to buy 1270 tickets ($6,350/worth) evenly distributed among species, he would have the odds necessary to draw at least one tag in the raffle (and if he didnt draw a tag he could also draw some pretty nice equiptment). I didnt see anything on the FAQ that limits the total number of raffle tickets that could be purchased. Another interesting thing, there is a new requirement in the Utah EXPO raffle this year that requires a valid Utah hunting license and it must be validated onsite in order to apply to the draw. Pretty sneaky way to increase the raffle odds for the inside crowd. I would guess the total number of tickets purchased will be much lower this year. I guess the SFW convinced the Utah DWR to create a nice barrier to entry in order to keep their own raffle odds as high as possible. The fact that Utah allowed this blows my mind. Do you think there are wealthy people in Utah willing to gamble $6,300 to acquire a tag and maybe even a tag that they would otherwise not be able to get due to once in a lifetime rules? Utah even allows SFW guys to buy blocks of raffle tickets themselves, like that doesn’t present a conflict of interest or anything. Is it fair that Utah average joes are allowing their premium tags be squandered so that the SFW and the Utah DWR can make a measely $5,000 each (estimated average net proceeds after the SFW admin expenses - I estimated about 20% lost to these..the actual net for each tags is probably much lower). Brilliant plan, lets call it the SFW hunt raffle insurance program. Rich guys spend $6000 per western state for raffle tickets (lets call it $30,000 a year for 5 states...and that $30,000 would probably be tax deductible). Each state is good for an average of one tag per year, rich guy draws an average of 5 "premium" tags a year. And now the best part, the public gets to pay the premium on this insurance program by providing the product (tags) at below market rates.......WHAT A DEAL! AND THE SFW GETS TO MAKE LOTS OF MONEY IN THE PROCESS, ENOUGH FOR LOTS OF BOOTHS AT THE EXPO FOR MORE SELF PROMOTION...YAY! AND NOW THE SADDEST PART OF ALL.........an "Arizona Special Deer Tag" is being auctioned off at the EXPO. This tag should really be auctioned off by a legitimate conservation group in Arizona. Auctioning it at the EXPO in Utah kind of implies an endorsement of the SFW. SFW is obviously trying to be the exclusive distributor of gray market (non public drawing tags) in the western US. The more tags they get for their “EXPO” the more this will allow them to monopolize the market and try to call the shots. It would be really easy for them to start trying to leverage the state wildlife agencies for specific types of tags if they feel their “market” demands it. Wildlife agencies need to cut this group off the wholesale tag gravy train (owned by the public) before it is too late to turn back. Arizona tags are awesome, we don’t need these guys to act as our broker. Anyone attending the expo should think twice before buying a raffle ticket, you will be feeding the monster if you do. FYI –If you don’t like my numbers feel free to provide some numbers of your own. I think my estimates are within single digit percentage point but they are admittedly back of the envelope calculations. I got my data from http://www.huntexpo.com/odds2011.php Ryan “Starve the SFW tag monster, keep tags in Arizona”

Sure glad I shoot a Mathews…… http://www.muledeer.org/blog/pre-whce-media-tour . No doubt the expo is good for the state of Utah, I wonder if the SFW leadership has a key to the Utah governors office? rtherbhuntng .... I mostly agree with you. Although I haven't seen any hard data either way, I would imagine a larger pool of bidders would indeed result in a higher auction price for the Arizona tag. It would actually be nice to see some real data either way (there probably is and I am just too unsophisticated to find it). I realize wildlife agencies need the money but there are hidden costs associated with partnering with an organization that has made it abundantly clear they will stop at nothing to control the distribution of as many tags as they possibly can. Even though AZGFD refused to pay a brokerage fee like many other states, the SFW gets the benefit of the appearance of a partnership with Arizona which probably brings in additional money through expo tickets, side raffles, etc. I am sure SFW markets their expo as "one stop shopping" for premium auction tags. If the states that own those premium tags (and there really aren't that many) were to hold them back, even for a couple years, the level of influence and monopolization by the SFW would be reduced. States like Utah might be too far gone at this point, I started reading the Utah regulations and the things that have happened to the residents and the level of complexity that has been introduced to their system is really sad and depressing... premium tags, conservation hunting licenses, dedicated hunter resident/non resident.....good grief. Manipulation through confusion seems to be the motive to me. Anyway, the Arizona auction tag is clearly a crack in the door toward uglier things and creates a channel for dialogue involving people that do not have the interests of the Arizona majority as a priority. It would be a pretty sad world if obtaining a decent hunt opportunity involved a singular system or distribution channel (kind of like MLS for real estate or even e-bay for that matter). Hunt opportunities are a public resource and maximizing or minimizing revenue on either end isn't the singular goal as it is for MLS and E-bay. The fact that SFW feels it needs to market itself the way it does raises suspicions that there are things going on in that organization that go far beyond conservation (a MEDIA TOUR, cmon). There is an equity component to the distribution of game tags that is independent of the bottom line numbers, the line separating the needs for revenue and maintaining alignment with the North American model of conservation is somewhat subjective and groups like the SFW are always trying to push the line over as much as possible to maximize opportunity for a wealthy few. Keeping these gray market tags limited to a single event also exposes us to the risk of introduced market forces (like the "onsite validation of the hunting license") that exist for no other reason than to steer tags into the pockets of friends or members of the brokering organization. The people at AZGFD are busy and I understand that they need to make decisions that can be easily explained and supported (it would be hard to argue for less money for an auction tag). I would submit that taking a stand against having anything to do with the SFW may be a difficult thing to support in the short run but could pay off with big dividends in the long run as the department is better able to maintain control of its own assets and the reduced legal expenses of having to deal with schemes from outside forces in the future. Arizona is a big missing piece in the SFW puzzle and it needs to stay that way, the first step is to tank the AZSFW and the next step is to convince the right forces at AZGFD to bring our tag home. Arizona has the toughest sheriff in America, a governor that isn't afraid to tell Obama what she thinks, and an AZGFD commission that voted 5-0 to oppose HB 2072. Anyone that thinks they are going to come into our house and grab the remote obviously hasn't been paying attention. Ryan

Rthrbhunting – Thank you for clarifying the one raffle ticket per person per hunt. It looks like there are about 106 flavors of hunts and the maximum number of raffle tickets that could be purchased would depend on whether a person were a resident or non-resident. With one ticket per hunt I would say the odds of abuse are quite low. I think the EXPO FAQ should have clarified that point. I also re-ran the numbers and the average gross per tag is more like $4,900 for 2011. I still think the “onsite license validation” is a scam though. Whether the actual average money raised per tag is 2k, 3k, 4k or 5k, that is still chump change and far too low to justify pulling these tags from an Average Joe that may have decades and thousands invested in hunting license fees. Most Utah Average Joes probably think these raffle tags are generating 20k or more per tag (like the auction tags do) when reality is quite different. Arizona should still bring our muley tag home, the SFW is using the public tags to make money to leverage even more public tags. The more tags they control the more tags they can potentially control, someone called it a ponzi scheme, I couldn’t agree more. Alot of the crown jewel tags of the hunting world reside in Arizona and we do have more power than most states to push through the SFW headwind. The SFW is only powerful if they are given the tags to be powerful, if western states pulled their expo auction tags the power of the SFW would go waaaaaaaay down. I am pretty proud of our current Game and Fish Commission, they are doing a great job. Kent – I feel like we had a good window table at a restaurant and were moved to the back of the restaurant because we told the waitress we found a hair in our soup. We didn’t put the hair in our soup, someone in their kitchen probably did. I guess it is easier to hush the diners than fish the big ball of hair out of the pot in the kitchen. The public would probably be better off if someone just got rid of the hairball. Who cares how it got there, just get it out…..or go fishin’ and eat some crappie instead . Ryan "Starve the SFW tag monster, keep Arizona tags local"