utah400elk

murphys69law, I drew my Utah tag a few years ago and just came off my wait (last year). The archery hunts in Utah end in early September. My hunt ended 9/11. I now live in Vegas so unit 9 is not that far away. I am very excited for this fall. I now will just put in for points for the rest of the states (except sheep). I hope everybody has a safe and happy hunting season. John

I have a pending $650.00 charge on my Cabelas Visa from AZ game and fish. Looks like my 17 NR points got me a early archery tag for 23N or 9. September can't come fast enough.

I am losing hope. It looks like my 16 NR elk points were not enought for a unit 9 early archery elk or a unit 23 N early archery tag. I guess I will try to use my Colorado elk points.

Good luck to all. I couldn't stand the numbers game any longer, so I put in for 9 and 23 N early archery. I no longer have to play the number crunching game. Now I get to play the waiting game.

I am sorry I should have said I am a NR with 16 current points looking for a early archery 9 tag or an early archery 23 N tag. Thanks again for any help. I think I am in pretty good shape this year.

I could use a little help (my wife would argue I need a lot of help) I am a NR and I plan on applying for unit 9 early archery 1st choice and 23N early archery as a 2nd choice. Do I have a legitimate chance this year?

Does anybody know where I could find out which groups were awarded which Governor's Tags. I know a guy from SFW who is claiming Utah SFW was given Arizona Governor's tags to sell?

Thanks guys

Camofreak. How many points did you have for that hunt. I puut in as a NR with 7 points and I am wondering how many points it took?

Thanks for the help guys. I guess I just wait and see.

I am looking for a little help with a few questions about the draw. I am a non-resident and have only drawn a tag in AZ one time back in 2005 or 2006. I applied this year for hunt 1018 and 1013 (12b late and 12AE early) in this year’s draw. I have the print out from Game and Fish. I applied using a Cabela’s Visa and I had 7 points going into the draw. I thought I should have been about 100% draw odds but have had no activity on my card. Last week, on a few websites, people were claiming they got emails from the game and fish asking them to verify their cards before the draw ( I never received an email like that). It looks like there was a bunch of activity this week with cards being charged but as I said nothing on my card. I know that I didn’t have any real shot at 12B late but I thought I would draw 12AE. I there still hope for the 12AE tag? Am I too early with these questions, or should I wait for the official draw results? I called Cabela’s and there have NOT been any declined charges. I also have the print out from the charges to my card ($7.50) for the application. Any help would be great…

I am looking for a little help from the guys down in AZ/ southern Utah. I can offer Utah and Wyoming info in exchange if that helps? I have the points to draw either the 12 BW early hunt or 12 A either East or West. I have hunted 12BW hunt in 2006 and had a fun hunt. I never ended up shooting a deer but saw a few 160 class deer and just missed a 190 class deer. No shots taken but as I was driving up to the top of the buckskins I saw a white 4runner parked in the middle of the road by dead man’s pockets. I later stopped and talked with the guys in the 4runner. They had shot a 190 class buck that was following a doe in the middle of the day. They said they shot the deer about 10 seconds before I drove by and the deer was about 50 yards off the road. They said that if I had been about 30 seconds earlier I would have seen the deer just standing there. Not the way I like to hunt but I know things can happen that way. Now, on to the question… In 2006 the 12BW hunt went into November. This year it does again. I have looked a lot at 12AE early and was sure this was the hunt I wanted to try but I with the later dates this year I am thinking about 12BW again. For the guys that live in the area and have hunted these hunts what would your suggestions be. I have been told that in the past few years the deer are NOT in 12BW. I have been told the later the dates the more deer that are there. I had a great time hunting in 12BW but would like a chance at a 180 class buck. I have included 12BW but I have not looked into that unit much. I know in 2006 a 180 buck would have been very hard to come by but they were there. I know there are 180 class bucks in both 12 AE and 12 AW. To add a little to the mix. I plan on taking my wife and son on the hunt with me. He will not go on all the hunts but he could do a few evening hunts with me. He is going to be five and I thought it would be a fun hunt for him. I really appreciate any help.

Thanks for all the help. I decided to put in for 12B late hunt as a 1st choice and 12AE as my second. 12B has passed the 20% cap without a nonresident drawn in the past leaving a random draw chance. I know its slim but I at least might have a slight chance. I should have enough points for the 12AE early hunt.

Does anybody know how much money AZ raised last year using conservation (both bid and raffle) tags and how many tags were offered? .

I decided long ago that it was better to hunt the Kaibab a few times rather than a one shot deal. I was behind in the point game and knew the strip was out of reach. I like the idea of hunting in an area where there are a few pigs. I might not get one but I can a least hunt for them.

You post is not worth reading. It is plain to see that you are a SFW supporter and you support HB2072. I get that, but to try and use the Dogood Bin Franklin thing is just too much. AZSFW divided the hunting community now they preach that the hunting community should be united and talk down on the people who want nothing to do with this group. If you read the bill than you would have seen that there were no solutions/plans listed. They tried to use trigger points to drive a proposal to grab tags. AZSFW is a cancer, nothing more.

For what it’s worth…This again is a play taken right out of the Utah SFW play book. In Utah there is a wildlife board that makes recommendations that the game and fish are required to follow. In Utah this board is overrun with SFW cronies. They oddly make recommendations that benefit SFW and the game and fish are required to follow them. This was set up in Utah as a way to protect wildlife decisions. Sounds like what AZ has. Be very careful, this can get twisted out of control in a hurry. Fight anybody associated with AZ SFW being placed on this board. I have heard SFW as being described as a cancer. I think that is very true. I took a few cancer biology classes in my undergrad and I learned that cancer is simply a cell that stops doing what it is meant to do and starts replicating itself. The cells lose their ability to do their intended function. It starts as one cell and quickly grows to entire systems. I think this uniquely describes SFW. It starts with great intentions but quickly spreads to serve itself even at the determent of the hunting community.

That is funny. Every time somebody brings up the bad that SFW does it quickly gets turned around into a discussion about the need for unity in the hunting community. Funny thing is that before 2072 it seemed that the AZ hunting community had many common goals. 2072 divided the hunting community and now supports of 2072 are saying we should not do anything to divide the community. Am I the only person who sees the irony? Here is a simple solution..drop 2072 and reunite the community and don’t work under the assumption that in a couple years most will forgive and forget!

They get a number of tags. The report shows a few tags are up. The buffalo looks good until you take into account that a few years ago they slashed the tags to start a new herd. I think they get 15% ( I could be wrong) of all OIL tags by statute but if you do the math they are over 15% on several hunts. They claim it's the states fault they were given too many tags. And if you question Don Peay he will tell you to join PETA. The funny thing is that I could do wonders with the Utah deer herd in one year (on paper). First I would stop all general season hunts. I would then add 11000 LE tags to the new 30 units. I could then spin that to say that I took the Utah deer hunting from 1105 permits (recommended in 2012 by Utah wildlife board for LE hunts) and increase that number to 12,000 permits. I would be viewed as a savior of Utah deer hunting by politicians because they saw a huge increase in LE hunting. The only problem is that it would come on the backs of the average Joe. If AZSFW gets these tags they will do something along those lines. If they get these tags they will argue to raise the bull to cow ratio on several units. Just before the expo comes up for review they will lower the bull to cow ratio and claim the increase in tags is a direct result of the expo. That is what SFW did in Utah and I don't see any reason they won't do that in AZ.

Just for fun I ran the Utah elk numbers for the last few years. Let’s see what the great Expo has done for Utah tags… Year 2009 2010 2011 2012 difference between 2009 and 2012. Unit Beaver 75 72 48 45 30 tag reduction = 40% reduction in tags Book Cliffs (Road less) 75 76 69 57 18 tag reduction = 24% reduction in tags Fillmore, Pahvant 111 112 85 71 40 tag reduction = 36% reduction in tags Monroe* 95 89 52 35 60 tag reduction = 63 % reduction in tags Plateau, Bou/Kaip 96 99 85 85 11 tag reduction = 11% reduction in tags San Juan 95 95 80 75 20 tag reduction = 21% reduction in tags Book Cliffs 148 152 155 153 5 tag increase = 3% increase in tags Central Mount, Nebo 144 144 108 100 44 tag reduction = 30% reduction in tags South Slope, D Mnt 82 72 64 52 30 tag reduction = 36 % reduction in tags Southwest Desert 89 143 133 133 44 tag increase = 40 % increase in tags Box Elder, P Mnt 4 3 3 3 1 tag decrease = 25% reduction Central Mnt, Manti 360 395 452 482 122 tag increase = 33% increase in tags La Sal, D Tri 3 3 3 5 2 tag increase = 66 % increase La Sal, La Sal Mnt 62 71 82 95 33 tag increase = 53 % increase in tags Mt. Dutton 175 185 164 147 28 tag decrease = 16 % decrease in tags Nine Mile Anthro 28 25 21 21 7 tag decrease = 25 % decrease in tags North Slope, Three C 43 42 40 36 7 tag decrease = 16 % decrease in tags Oquirrh-Stansbury 39 42 39 37 2 tag decrease = 5 % decrease in tags Panguitch Lake 105 104 103 85 20 tag decrease = 19 % decrease in tags Plat/ Fish-Thou Lake 157 180 201 180 23 tag increase = 14 % increase in tags Wasatch Mountains 432 509 603 652 220 tag increase = 50 % increase West Desert, D Crk 34 41 46 36 2 tag increase = 5% increase in tags Box Elder, Gr Crk 2 3 2 2 0 increase Cache, Meadowville 28 36 44 56 28 tag increase = 100% increase Cache, North 79 82 87 88 9 tag increase = 11 % increase Cache, South 67 93 111 129 62 tag increase = 92% increase in tags Fillmore, Oak Crk 55 47 39 39 16 tag decrease = 30 % reduction in tags Paunsaugunt 39 46 52 56 17 tag increase = 43 % increase in tags 15 units had a decrease, 12 had an increase and one stayed the same. Not the windfall that SFW would have you believe. However, it does show a 218 tag increase or about 7% increase. Look a little further and since 2010 there is actually a 21 tag decrease or less than 1% decrease in total tags. To achieve the 218 tag increase Utah took about 500 + (conservation and convention) tags A YEAR from the average sportsman/sportswomen. That 218 increase came at the cost of 2000 + tags and then current trend is down. Utah is recommending 86,500 general season deer permits. That number is down from 220,000 when SFW started. A total loss of about 133500 tags or about a 60% reduction in total tags. SFW does not deserve all the blame for the current Utah deer herd but at the same time they don’t deserve all the credit for the growth in the other species. A few other points of interest... The world famous Henry Mountains tags were previously general units where the average Joe could hunt. Now they are a once in a lifetime if you started building points for deer in the beginning. A .04 % chance if you are just starting out as a resident .01 % as a nonresident. The book cliffs were once a general tag. Now a .9% chance as a resident just starting the point game and .3% as a nonresident. Please note that prior to these units becoming LE they were open to anybody. Now just the wealthy can hunt these areas every year. Another interesting note is that these tags were taken from the general units and are now counted as a gain in the LE category. How can SFW take tags from the general hunts, not take credit for the loss of tags but claim the increase in LE tags. This information is from the Utah DWR and can be looked at @ http://wildlife.utah.gov/public_meetings/info/2012-04_packet.pdf

Sorry for the double post

A few other facts for her from Utah: Before SFW Utah had almost 300,000 deer hunters, they now have approximately 85,000 deer hunters. Their numbers of limited entry tags have gone up but at the cost of the over the counter tags. The other point to the system in Utah is that they kept the age objectives very high on the LE units and about the same time as the expo they lowered the age objectives allowing more tags. The thing she should ask is for hard numbers from Utah as to how much money has been raised from the expo tags FOR wildlife? Nobody else can get this maybe she can. Make sure they don’t send a smoke screen and include the conservation tags (90% required to be given back). That is a common tactic from Utah SFW is to combine conservation and convention tags and state they raised X number of dollars. Try and get the actual numbers from them for the expo and you will hear crickets. She said “The number of tags, that the expo will purchase will only be 54. I keep hearing that it is a very large number.” It is my understanding that this is over a 100% increase. That is a big number. Also 0% required to be given back is a major issue. She also said “These tags would actually be easier to access through the expo than through the regular draw procedures (even when there is a priority status). I have only heard this and have no official documentation, but it makes sense.” It is true that for some people it would be easy to access these tags (not easier). However the people who live a long distance from the expo it will be a major problem to access the tags. They would be required to drive hundreds of miles to apply for a tag. Not very easy for them. She then says “I am hearing the Utah's expo is really not creating a better hunting environment in Utah, but I have been given some statistics that tell otherwise.” Make no mistake, Utah hunting has gotten much better for a VERY select FEW. The average person in Utah will draw one LE elk or LE deer tag in their life, If they started applying a long time ago they will also have a shot a one OIL tag. She can look at any number of odds sites to see that the Utah system has negatively affected the average hunter. The Utah system is geared towards trophy hunting and nothing more. They piss all over the average Joes to make the trophy hunting the best for the conservation tags. Hope and pray that AZ does not follow Utah.

This push on HB2072 makes me sick. It no longer matters what the general AZ hunter thinks. They have even said in their own meetings that they hope that 90% will forgive and forget within a couple of years. AZSFW knows what’s best and is going to ram this down the AZ resident’s throats. They can’t give a plan of attack, and this is simply an end run at tags. I am a nonresident so I don't have much say about what happens in AZ. I have written to the legislators but am not sure it will help. I would be willing to bet the next change will be for AZSFW to push for the tags from the nonresident hunters. They can change this law to make it look like on 30+ tags will be auctioned and the rest will simply be a 2nd chance for residents at their tags. They will claim that the average AZ resident will actually have two chances at the draw. It is a win win for the residents. This is what happened in Utah and this is what AZSFW will try in AZ. It is time for AZSFW to stop saying they are not SFW. They started with seed money from Utah; they are trying to follow the Utah model and are touting the benefits of the Utah system as a reason for their proposed expo. They are projecting 25 million from the expo. Really? This has been done in Utah. From the Utah expo: In 2011, 676 nonresidents applied for the Desert Bighorn Sheep tag; 666 nonresidents applied for the Rocky Mountain Bighorn Sheep tag, 541 nonresidents applied for the Mountain Goat tag; 526 nonresidents applied for the one of the moose tags and 522 nonresidents applied for the other nonresident moose tag. I am sure most of those are nonresidents who applied for multiple species but to be generous let’s say 800 nonresidents traveled to Utah for their Expo. AZSFW should assume the same for their expo. How much extra money will 800 visitors to the state of AZ really generate? They claim the hotel rooms, food from local businesses etc. Their claims don’t hold water. It will create a 2nd chance at tags for people who live by the expo but those AZ residents who live out of the phoenix area will have to travel hours and hundreds of miles to apply for the second chance. To be very clear the Utah expo has worked great to generate money in Utah. The major thing is that the money has been raised for a VERY FEW people and Utah wildlife is not better off for it. This is what the AZSFW will get if they can get this passed. I hope AZ residents can fight this. If there is anything else a nonresident can do please let me know.

Every time SFW (not just AZ SFW) gets in hot water the conversation is turned toward the need for unity in the hunting world. Don Peay has actually hinted that a person is either with SFW or they should join PETA. Calling for unity of course. It is SFW IMO that destroys unity by their actions. If money is needed for the issues brought up, why change the cuurent requirement for the tags? If it is about raising money, why not have 100% of the money go to the problem? This is a great way for AZ SFW to start their own expo with an AZ subsidy via tags. Nothing more. A person can look to Utah (the model AZ SFW is using) to see what will most likely happen. No accountability, millions generated for a select few. This is a backroom deal that blew up in their faces. No need to twist this into a unity discussion. Another point: if this expo is really going to generate the millions they claim, do they really need the tags to cover their costs? The new proposal is to give 30% to G&F. So, they actually need cost-plus-70% of the remaining money when they predict 25 million generated. It simply does not add up. If they came out and offered 100% back, according to their numbers, they are still going to make millions for wildlife.

From another site... "Peay, who stressed that the Utah chapter isn't trying to push its view in Alaska or even with the Alaska chapter, said it's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource. Peay described that egalitarian doctrine, found in Alaska's state constitution and laws throughout the West, as "socialism." It offers no economic incentive for landowners to kill predators, improve big game habitat and even provide food and water for target species." Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2012/03/03/2350508/private-hunting-rights-weighed.html#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpyhttp://www.adn.com/2012/03/03/235050...#storylink=cpy SFW supporters please help me understand Don's statements. This is starting to get crazy. Revisit the widely accepted principle that game is a public resource? It is a public resource Don! WTF? Comming soon to AZ? If so, any bets that this ideal will be pushed by AZSFW. Landowner tags? The next 800 pound gorilla in AZ?