Scooter

Amazing... I shot a bobcat at 10 yards the first time I tried one of those Flextone MIMIC wal-mart specials for $40. Then I went on some predator sites and found the homemade e-caller and put one of those together. Tried it on Thanksgiving and 8 minutes later I shot a coyote at 20 yards. I've had an amazingly EASY time getting animals to come in. I've coyote hunted in other states, but not this type of terrain. My advice would be to maybe reduce your volume when starting your stand. You might be "blasting them out" when you start a caller too loud. I would start out a half volume, or edit up a sequence that starts at half and builds louder as the sequence progresses. Also, where you hunt- are you seeing prey animals everywhere? If you are- then there are dogs around but they might not be interested in what you're selling them... If there are NO prey animals running around, then the dogs aren't there at all. You wanna find an area that has a few birds and bunnies around, but not very many. That's when you know you probably have hungry dogs who will be receptive to calling. I'm no master predator hunter- but those are the fundamentals I use when scouting out areas. One more tip- coyotes like to be around cows... find cows- find dogs.

Congrats on the buck- yeah here in 35A it truly is beautiful when them hills get snow. I would really LOVE to get drawn for the December hunt next year for sure.

I love my Maxus as well... how well does yours pattern #4 buck?

Art, The current law states what constitutes a legal lion, and if a legal lion is harvested- it's a trophy in the eyes of the beholder. No one really thinks you're an anti-hunter, they just have a poop taste in their mouth cause you bagged on a guy's mt. lion pic. He did not sound like a dyed-in-the-wool lion hunter, but was proud of his harvest. It's your job as the more experienced lion hunter to encourage and educate him rather than crap all over his story. I agreed about the non-recovered animal... If it were me I would have just kept on looking for it and if I didn't find it- oh well, I guess I shoulda made a better shot. When you only get to harvest 1 animal per year (in most areas)- I believe if your bullet, arrow, shot, rock, spear, etc. draws blood, the animal is yours whether you find it or not. That goes for all game species big and small... I've shot and crippled ducks that were unrecoverable and just added them to my bag limit. But that is not what the law states... it's a question of my hunter-ethics versus others. In the future if your hunter-ethic conflicts with someone else's hunter-ethic, the best place for that is not right after a guy has posted a proud picture of a legal animal. I mean, he was very proud and his kid now has to read a post about how much of a scumbag you think his dad is for not killing what you consider a trophy. Get what I'm saying???

I do too. I am also not criticizing... just trying to gain some perspective. Fork- I read the examples and I get what you're saying. It seems to make at least some sense. AZGFD are the experts and I will take their word for it! I do take issue with the fact that people will almost always choose a buck over a doe. If I had a either sex tag for a six-day season... day six if I have an opportunity to harvest a doe I'm harvesting meat. Tag soup sucks... I gotta assume that there are alot of others like me.

Viagra spiked with enzyte and cialis! I've heard of bucks breeding up to 5 or 6 does in one season, but having the energy to chase and breed 20 would have to be a herculian effort.

Very informative, and confusing me at the same time. So, lets make a model. Worst case scenario first: Unit "X" has 15 bucks and 100 does. G&F issues a total of 20 tags for bucks only. Hunters harvest 10 bucks, and 10 tags go unfilled. That means there are still 100 does, but only 5 bucks left to do the breeding- and that only reflects hunter-harvested deer. Those remaining 5 bucks are the unit's only hope in furthering the herd and are still affected by the droughts, predation, habitat loss, and the list goes on. Can a single buck successfully breed 20 or more does? Maybe, he'd have to be a stud though- and the chase would nearly kill him. So the current model of 10-20 bucks per 100 doe looks pretty bleak in my eyes. My idea would be this: Unit "X" has 15 bucks and 100 does. G&F issues a total of 20 tags for either-sex deer. Hunters harvest 5 bucks and 15 does. That leaves 10 bucks to breed the remaining 85 does. All of the same attrition factors come into play like the worst case scenario above- but now you have more bucks to help breed all of the does. Even if you lose a buck or two to predation, there's still more out there than the current model. If all of the tags got filled by hunters taking bucks and the last 5 tags with does, you're still in the same boat. From that letter linked above in Forkhorn's post- I would have to support the 20-30 buck to 100 doe ratio (or higher), AND have a limited doe harvest because it seems like keeping the buck numbers so low and the tag numbers high just invites the possibility of reduced breeding and non-breeding to occur in certain areas. Now I know that not all the antlerless deer are female and some button bucks might breed a doe or two- but you get what I'm saying? 20% buck to doe ratios are just risky in my opinion. -AND- How in the world does managing for less bucks and issuing more tags make any bit of sense to anyone??? Someone please educate me because it seems like I'm way off in left field on that one

Yeah, right outside Tombstone. Cool, I am just west of ya and I didn't know we had badgers. I hope I see one sometime out there.

No problem... I am already aware of the predator/prey arguments. I get it. It's a polarized issue which can eat up many thread replies and lead the conversation far away from the intention. What I see is alot of passionate sportsmen who share ideas and theories in an open forum, in which everyone can process and learn from or not learn from. I just want deer meat in the freezer and the freakin does are everywhere. I guess waiting another 3-4 weeks until the chasing starts ain't gonna kill me. Man, Domino's pizza must be scaring all the bucks away so they can get more of my $$$!

Yeah, it's pretty well-known that I don't know or understand the areas I hunt... I'm working on it. So no offense taken. While I've been a hunter for all my life, I only recently got stationed in AZ and I'm just trying to figure some of the "funny" rules out. I have hunted or know the rules in pretty much every Northeast State (NY, PA, VT, ME, NH, OH, MI), and of course my favorite...Texas. I wasn't criticizing AZ for its rules, just trying to gain perspective on why things are the way they are here. I guess I have to buy myself a few of them trail cameras and see what's lurking my neck of the woods. I probably would be surprised and frustrated!

Don't pee uphill barefoot... That's all I've got to offer so far.

Ok not cool... I wanted this to stay on the topic of doe harvesting. I understand predation/predator hunting is a hot-button issue- but that's for a different thread. Let me put it another way and get the discussion going again: All of the factors mentioned above (predation, fawn attrition rates, not enough deer in AZ) don't really give me the rock-solid answer I was looking for. Many, many folks have mentioned that they see does upon does and then rarely a buck. The ratios seem imbalanced to me- which leads me to believe that if we aren't shooting does because of a shortage in overall deer population, then should we be shooting so many bucks instead? I'm not just talking Coues does, Muleys are in this too. Maybe it's because I haven't seen the rut yet- huh? I just feel like you should be able to harvest a doe during an archery-only non-permit tag if you choose. How could that possibly decimate the deer herd??? Any way you cook it- you're still only allowed one deer per calendar year so if you tag out on a doe, a buck goes free to reproduce with the abundant doe population... But if you kill a buck, then there are some does that may/may not get bred. Am I thinking right? I wish there was a Biologist on here that would chime in with some science on this...

I guarantee that was EXACTLY what that badger was doing. Eating snakes cause he doesn't give a ****... That is cool, you were around Tombstone I take it???

Oops I forgot that one Airbus... great tip!!! I have shot kneeling a few times and it works pretty good. just make sure your floor is silent.

gearsnagger- When did the buckshot/mt lion rule change??? Can you hang the link on here? Whoever it was that said the Prarie Storm Flight Control wad tips- I LOVE that shell for pheasant... where did you find those in BBB size???

There are no Javelina in 35A...

I break it down into two categories, motion and noise. MOTION: You may really have to drop the poundage on your bow, it helps alot! When youth/female bow's can effectively kill a deer out to 40 yards shooting 45lbs- I have confidence that alot of guys shooting 65-70lbs can back their bows down to 55-60lbs and draw easier being just as effective. Put your bowsight on the deer and hold it up there in front of your body prior to drawing. Hook up your release and get ready. Once you are behind the bow limbs, it makes it harder for the deer to see what's going on back there. Wait until the deer isn't looking and then draw slowly, silently and deliberately to full draw. Distract them. Use a decoy. Use deer cane. Use Acorn Rage or whatever you fancy. ANYTHING to keep their attention off of you in the blind. I highly recommend the Montana Decoy. Don't set it up right on top of your blind... keep it obscured in some brush 40-50 yards away and 90 degrees from your view. Those decoys draw wary bucks' focus off of the giant leafy box thingy and concentrate it elsewhere. NOISE: The other thing to consider is noise. Wear all black, from head to waist, and try to use a fleece outer layer. The crinkly waterproof stuff will make noise at the worst time, save it for the spot and stalk in bad weather! Fleece is silent when it rubs against a variety of materials. Axle-to-Axle plays a pivotal role in whether or not you should be using a particular blind. Older, taller bows and those 3D rigs competition guys shoot can be tough to shoot in a blind due to the ceiling height. Most blinds this won't be an issue, but when you rub or spin a cam that was touching any part of the blind, you're in for bad news. Seat - not every chair will fit your window set-up. If you already have a good seat with decent window clearance, ignore this tip. I have found that a good seat with a back is key in staying comfy and still while waiting. I use a regular folding camp chair with arms and cupholders and everything. I put a cheap black fleece blanket over it to eliminate noise when getting into shooting position. Floor - I have done this for a long time, but another person on this forum has given this tip too- use a harbor freight moving blanket for the entire floor of your blind... They're like $8 and will completely eliminate foot noise. Remove your boots if necessary. This is also key when moving into shooting position. So once you have the motion and noise taken care of, you can start to concentrate on practicing shooting form the seated position. I have found that it isn't any different from standing as far as pin settings- after all, your bottom half really has NOTHING to do with archery form. Shoot both side saddle, and between the legs so that you can cover the whole gambit of opportunities.

Hey CW.commers! I got stationed down here this past spring (moved from Texas) and didn't really get my hunting act together until early fall... so I grabbed a leftover tag for Thanksgiving weekend in my 35A "backyard". Being an experienced deer hunter, I did alot of scouting, but I don't really have any huntin buddies yet so my scouting trips were blind and I didn't venture out very far from the roads. I hunted every day this past weekend, saw a few deer- but no shots. Here are some things I have learned form my first deer hunt in AZ: 1. There's alot of deer hunters in Arizona. The folks I met were some really nice people, and most Coues hunters here in this area really seem to know what they're doing!!! Then again... who else would go to the great lengths that people do to pack out 50lbs of meat in 70 degree weather? Pro's! 2. I need to find a good, reliable hunting partner. I am not comfortable venturing far off the beaten path and over a few ridges all by myself. I'm a 31 year old military guy and I guarantee I can walk forever- but one slip and fall on a smooth rock this past weekend gave me a nasty bruise on the knee. Could have been alot worse, and even though I told people where I'd be- they are about as familiar as I am with the area which means it would have taken some time and professional help to find me. 3. Zero at 200 yards. I am sighted in at 100 yards right now- I am an experienced shooter so I can compensate for drop fairly well... at the range. However, I am not entirely confident I'd be able to "kentucky windage" a buck walking up or down a hillside at 250-300 yards. My 30-06 needs to be dead-on at 200 to mitigate some of the guesswork. All of the deer I saw this weekend were 150-400 yards away. 4. Nobody, or hardly anyone wears hunter orange around here... Is that the norm? Are Coues deer that savvy to pick out that particular shade of grey that they see orange as? For me... it's a safety thing. I am not comfy walking/crawling around with folks with rifles looking elusive "grey ghosts" while wearing camo. All it takes is one guy who forgot his glasses/lost his contacts to start flinging rounds at what he/she thinks is a deer to make my day go very bad. 5. Never EVER EVER EVER take your eyes off of your binos/spotting scope when you have a moving deer glassed! Every time I do this I cannot relocate the little bugger. I hunt some really brushy mesquite and oak hillsides and I assure you they must live in undergorund caves. How else could they disappear that easily! 6. I have a really hard time spotting deer with the naked eye. I'm not talking about 150 yards and closer... I'm talking normal Coues deer (poor man's sheep) hill-to-hill combat style. Even when they're moving, even when they're flagging it's super-tough to spot them without optics. 7. I LOVE predator hunting... so much easier than chasing Coues. The only drawback is that they don't eat as good as deer. BUT, even an average coyote pelt (or a few pelts) will fetch enough to buy me a steak dinner, and I don't have to go very far from the truck to get 'em. They come to you! Hope you enjoyed these truths I have learned. I have a few evening hunts left on the tag, so wish me luck!!!

Stalked in to 50 yards on over 15 mulies sittin on a hillside... all slick, no antlers. First time I ever been that close to Mulies... Even though my arrow stayed on the riser, it was still a cool experience getting that close.

Still after them with my bow. Yesterday I sat in my blind all morning- only saw 6 turkeys. That was cool, but my freezer is empty. I collapsed the blind and stashed it in the truck to go walk/stalk around to see what I could find. 2 Coues Does got up in some thick stuff about 10 yards away from me which almost made me fill my diaper... Then I started glassing and saw movement on a hillside over a mile away. I thought at first they were cattle, but at this spot I'd never seen cattle before. I only had my 10X42's and no tripod/bipod, so I wasn't able to get a clearer picture. Maybe after Santa drops some Swaro's down my non-existent chimney. Anyway, I started trekking over towards that hillside- ended up 100 yards away glassing for horns. All slicks. So I tried to get even closer... 75 yards away... No Horns in sight. Get a little closer at 50 yards and a rogue breeze hits me in the back right towards them and almost 20 mulie does get up and trot off over the ridge. Not a single antler in the group!

So you're saying I need to step up my predator game??? No Problem...

so alot of the fawns that I see with mama are not gonna make it through to the next monsoon season? okay, I see that point.

I see them everywhere I go- this cannot possibly be true. I trust ya Lark, but from where I'm glassing it's like at least a 10:1 ratio... Heck, yesterday I stalked up on 20 Muley does in a group and no antlers in sight... With that logic (not having many deer in AZ), and the buck/doe ratios how much sense does it make to shoot bucks only??? Like I said... I'm still learning here in AZ, and I'm certainly not a biologist- just seems like there's an imbalance from what I've seen down here.

Dude, nice bull and congrats... I'm due AFTER deer season! Planning brotha, all about planning...

Heluva deer... can't wait for the story!