Rembrant

I'm not so sure that there are areas that just produce small to average bucks. A quick glance at the record book reveals a wide assortment of areas that have produced monsters. Might be a fun thing to do a little study using the record book and listing the entries and scores for all of the areas. What units do the biggest racks come from? What units do the most enties come from? What units have the least entries? Is there a whitetail unit that has no entries? Is there a unit that is for whitetail what the Kaibab is for muleys? Of course there will be a top unit, but I don't think there will be a large separation from the other units (like the Kaibab/Strip is for muleys). I'm not saying I know. I don't. But my gut feeling is that good antler genes are spread out all over Coues Country. Mike

In the Southeastern part of Arizona the various mountain ranges that rise from the desert floor are refered to as "Sky Islands". It is the steeper areas of these ranges that the Majestic Coues Deer calls his home. These higher elevations collect more precipitation that provides for more vegitation and better feed for this superior breed of deer; shrubs like Mountain Mohogany, and succulant forbs like Red Stemmed Fillery. Everything about this supurb animal is high class and better than its cousin, the lowly mule deer, which is content to slum around the parched lifeless bottom of the Sonoran Desert floor. These happless and lazy creatures don't bother to put the work into climbing up to the better food sources and are doomed forever as 'bottom feeders', or 'CARP". I hope this helps you understand. Mike

I like Kevin from New Mexico's reply. What we're dealing with here in Arizona is too many people! When there are too many people, we compete for the prime spots and when we find we're not alone, we feel violated. The good folks then try harder to find more remote areas and the others act out their dissapointment in various ways. When we work hard to get out of the big cities and into our places of solitude (hunting spots) we really don't care to see other people. It's too bad that the USO jerks are from New Mexico, because by and large, folks from New Mexico are really friendly people. I ran into a rancher in the Quemado area a while back (in passing on a dirt road) and an hour later I had to force a goodbye so I could continue with my scouting. One of the things he said was the county he lives in has a whopping 15000 people in it now! I informed him that the city that I live in has 50000! In one town! And this is not a big city in Arizona. When there is nobody around where you live, it's fun to meet new people - down right special! That's probably why Kevin "can make friends with a fence post". Gotta talk to somebody! Anyway, what we are experiencing is an over population problem. I envy the relaxed, friendly and hospitable desposition of the folks in New Mexico. I love Arizona, and I love people, but it's sure gettin hard to find a secret spot anymore. In fact, there may not even be one left. I applaud the guys that bust their butts and hunt the places that see very little human traffic. Wonderful are the rewards that this effort offers. Mike

Happy birthday coueswhitetail.com!! You are developing nicely! A year ago, through the Dec season, I seem to remember logging on every day and being disapointed that more people were not getting involved and sharing their experiences on-line. Some days there were no posts at all. This past whitetail season the discussion forum has been fabulous. Where else can you find mega info - pictures, stories, tips, facts, humor, compassion and other information about deer hunters and their favorite sport?? Here in Flagstaff there is a sporting goods store (Ruff's) that used to weigh animals that hunters would bring in, they would take pictures, give you one and put another in a photo album that stayed at the store for every interested person to look at. Then I discovered Sportway Liquer in Williams that did the same thing except their album is 3 foot wooden pages mounted with hinges on the wall, and they do a better job of documenting the photos with information like dates, units, etc. To compare the deer lore at these stores to C.W..com would be like comparing a covered wagon to a rocket ship! We have so much more here. We are not just seeing the sucessful hunters in one community, this site covers the entire Coues deer region; Arizona, New Mexico and Mexico. Wow! We get to see monster bucks, like Bowsniper's recent archery kill, big bucks, average and small bucks. And we get to read all of the stories sucessful or not. And we get bear stories and lion stories and mule deer stories. I think the best part of it all are the people that share the stories. We get to hear from lifetimes of experience from people like Gains, AZHunter, Josh Epperson, Scott Adams, and so many others. I love the way Scott Adams puts a story together complete with pics from his high power optics. I took pics of a big bear last week through my spotting scope - would never have happened if I hadn't been educated by reading this forum. Then there are the personalities like Ernesto, Chris Darnell, Lark and others. What color! You guys add to the richness of my life. This site also has power. Sportsman and women can be rallied to contact our legislators in times of need. And good ethics are shared here - this may be the only place some people get exposed to this stuff. This power will grow with the site's success as time goes on. Thank you Amanda for the conception of this site and the unimaginable hours you must put into it. Thank you also for letting us "air out" hot topics as they arise with minimal censorship. Thanks also to all members and guests for keeping the posts civil and clean. The stuff we get here is more than just deer lore. It's culture. And with all the crap that the world has to offer these days, this is a great place to visit and share and learn. Thanks again Amanda. You are appreciated by us all. Mike

This is why I backpack as much as possible - and hope that most people are of the lazy variety. Mike

I have no doubt that all these guys are excellent. Taxidermy has come a long way in the past few decades. My guy is Clay Goldman of Mogollon Taxidermy in Payson. Mike

Thanks Treestandman, Big Coues bucks are doggon hard to get!! I'm gonna get this one mounted 'cause I'm gettin closer to 50 than 45 and don't know how many more backpackers I have left in me. I think we get a bit desensitized by having the opportunity of seeing so many big Coues deer bucks on this site. It's a whole different deal to go find one in season with a tag in your pocket. I hope that all these guys that kill the really big ones appreciate them to the fullest (I'm sure they do) and get them mounted. Thanks again, Mike

BASS, You oughta check out your design patent options before public disclosure. Sometimes neat little ideas can change a person's lifestyle! I think it's a great idea - thanks for sharing, Mike

Right on, Johnnie! I'm glad just to hear that you have pics and a story!! Looking forward... Mike

Recurveman, WAY TO BE!!!!!!! I know what you are saying about the lack of deer in Unit 8. I glassed with one of my older brothers for a couple of days in that unit a few years ago and never saw a whitetail!! That is really hard to take when you have experienced a southern hunt. There are a few guys (like Epperson) that know the unit well enough to 'believe' and even bowkill a buck out of there. I'm not one of those guys. That is a great buck. The northern bucks really get some mass. I would be darned proud of that buck! Congrats!! Mike

Thanks for asking CB1. My brother and I both killed. The day after Christmas we backpacked another 6 days of supplies up the mountain. Not long after we arrive and repair our wind-damaged tents, my brother spots a wide-racked buck in a good place and insisted that I go check him out. One look in the spotting scope and I new I wanted to take him. His rack was as wide as his ears and he was a solid 3 point - plus eye guards. The buck was in a good spot (3/4 of a mile away) to be stalked and I wound up 120 yds away from where I new him to be tending a doe. This was uncomfortably close for me, but was the only way I was gonna get a shot. There was no rock or tree limb for a solid rest, so I needed to sit down to get my elbows on my knees. Before I could get this done, a 2 point buck walks out of the trees and is looking at me. We do the stand-off thing for about 5 minutes. He finally walks behind another tree and the big buck exposes himself as he follows the hot doe - walking directly away from me. I follow him with the crosshairs off-handed as he walks about 60 yds further before he offers me something other than a Texas heart shot. He turns right, exposing his vitals, and is instantly behind another tree. I had a brief oportunity for a shot, and was gonna take it, but because of the pack trip, the stalk, the stand-off, and the stress/excitement. I was not able to hold steady enough on him - so I didn't shoot. With all deer now behind trees, I manage to take a seat and wait for a good shot. The wind was perfectly bad, but by the time I convinced myself that I must have been high enough above the deer to get away with it, the 2 point blows and he, another 2 point and a doe bolt away. The unseen big buck stays put. I wait... for two hours! Finally both 2-points return! one dissapears in the brush/trees and the other walks directly to where I am believing the big buck is. This dink is repelled from the trees and I finally catch a glimpse of the big buck - twice, but with no clear shot. I continue waiting, but it was easier with the confirmation. I began praying for another doe to come along and make this buck budge. After a few minutes a doe, the original hot doe (I thought she ran off earlier), runs out of the trees with the other 2-point on her tail! This was too much for the big buck and the chase was on! Out in the clearing now, the 3-point put the fear of death into the 2-point and is now whole heartedly chasing his mate! Not knowing where they will end up, I square off on the big guy and shoot him on the run. YESS!! I later range the shot at 220 yds. He is not the 100 incher that I was hoping for but he scores 90", is 17" wide and is really handsome. I would do it again. The next day I spot a 90 plus'er in a bad spot below cliffs and major rock slides. My bro decides to pass. Later that day at darn near dark O'clock I spot a big deer entering the same clearing where my buck was killed. My bro gets him in the spotting scope and declares, "He's a freaking toad!" (100 plus) and takes off - racing against darkness. That buck beat us. We spot another near-100" buck on the 29th on an opposing mountain and watch him walk around the corner. My bro hiked over there and sat watching that edge of the mountain, while I watched it from a-far for the rest of the day. That buck beat us too. On the last day we spot a big buck, first thing in the morning, closer to us. In the early light he looks big. The stalk ends up in the same clearing where my buck fell, and my brother's buck lay dead 15 yds from the other kill spot! This buck was not as big as we had thought. He is a 14" forky, trying to be a three point on both sides. We're still not clear if we are the victims of a bait and switch, 'cause we thought we were on a big buck. But still a blessing for a last day buck, with plenty of time to pick up camp and get out of Dodge. I will send Amanda some pics to post, 'cause I'm computerly stupid, and I want to send them from a better unit than this one. Also, all the above story is complete fabrication because it has been proven that there are no deer of any kind in Unit 23! You can rest assured that the pics I will send to Amanda are also computer generated. Sorry to have you read this long post for nothing, Mike

Chris, Don't kill yourself. You are a credit to Western deer hunting culture. I won't rag you about burning a tag. I had already figured you weren't gonna make it due to the work situation mentioned in previous posts. I like the relax, be grateful for life, and look forward to the rest of your life option. That's some of the best stuff in life; a new day every 24 hours, new years, other chances and future campains. Get better, Mike

Rembrant to BCoover... Rembrant to BCoover... you out there? You said you'd kill in the first couple of days. Did you? I hope you killed a big'n! Me and my brother been passin up bucks like Morris the Cat passes up regular cat food. We're goin out for the last 6 days manana. Seen some decent bucks, no monsters. It's time to switch from shopping mode to killing mode - just gotta find the right ones. I hope you and your family are having a blast. Mike

It's a personal call. I believe if you do everything possible to find the animal for a couple of days, and are not able to - that is very responsible. I would continue - and have - kept hunting at that point. I have hunted with Game Warden buddies and wound up in that situation. They were happy with my efforts. It's the jerks that don't put in the effort when it gets tough that ought to be ashamed of themselves. At that point, it's not a personal call, it's a legal responsibility. I do respect your view Amanda. Like I said, it's a personal call. I have known more than one person who have accidentally killed more than one animal, and when they found out their mistake - turned themselves in. There are some people with good ethics in the woods. The late Les Shelton told me a story once about a bull elk with an odd rack that his wife had arrowed right through both lungs - clean pass through. They searched and searched and could not recover. Later during the rifle hunt, a client of his who was a medical doctor, killed that same bull! After Les told the Md. all about it, the doc examined the lungs and revealed obvious scar tissue through one lobe of each lung! The bull had recovered a double lung pass through!! Sometimes animals recover. Mike

I spent two days high on a mountain in a tree overlooking a habitual scrape. The day before I got there, Mr. Big threw the snow out of the way as well as a bunch of dirt - up to 12 feet away, (looked like where my dog likes to dig in my back yard). Fresh cedar leaves lying in the dirt from a limb above the scrape that has been taking abuse for years. This limb is at my eye level and I am 6'1". This buck would have had to stand up on his hind legs to reach this branch. He also has big feet. I threw some high dollar -doe in heat- pee right in the scrape and excitedly sat in my tree blind for 2 days. Nothing happened. I'm not done with this spot yet, but I was hoping that something would have happened in that amount of time. Don't know when I can go again - maybe in 5-6 days, and I will try and decipher new sign from old to try and figure frequency. Anybody got any scrape hunting history you would like to share? Thanks, Mike

Wow Mark!!! Congratulations! What a toad! I am really happy that you killed that deer. What... a ...TOAD! You say you're new to hunting Coues deer, but I don't think you're new to killing whitetails out of trees? WOW! Mike

I figured as much. You've been hanging around the 23 strings. I hope you do well - kill a big deer. Just stay outa my spot. Mike

That is absolutely correct. The voice of the people is the real strength. Us outdoors people need to figure out how to do that. Mike

Oh c'mon Lark, tell us how you really feel. I wouldn't use them same words, but you're right about Janet needing to go somewhere. And I don't believe the commission is as bad as you say, though they pay way too much attention to being politically correct. Political correctness is the de-masculinization of America. Sure don't need tree huggers in there. What we need are commissioners with HUEVOS - big ones. Anybody that don't know what that means - you can ask Ernesto. Mike

Oh yeah cooozy-one? What have you got in YOUR hand... A UNIT 23 TAG????!!!! BOOOHYAGHH!! CALL!!

There are no deer of any kind in this unit. If people were smart they would hunt somewhere else! Mike

Yep Bcoover, three more work days and a wake up. I'm headin out Thursday and hiking in and setting up a backpack camp. I'll glass that evening. Of course I'll be tempted to shoot that big buck if he shows up the day before, but I'm tempted with a lot of things in my life; don't mean I gotta do 'em! 'Sides that I might see that lion. Thanks Johnnie for the good words. I hope you and your son do well too! And I hope you're right about the rut. I also hope we all get the buck of our dreams. Mike

One year my brother and I woke up in unit 21 to 5 inches of wet snow and a total fog-in. We decided to hike out, dry out and regroup. On the hike out, I was trailing him - just totally diggin the 15 to 25 yd view. We were in mequites and saguaros, wet snow on everything and this mystical fog setting an eerie mood. My brother is head down and plowing along leading the way, and as I'm following and staring off in wonder, I see an outline of a big whitetail buck standing there watching us walk by at 25 yds. He had a tall rack that curved in at the top, shaped kinda like an ancient indian bowl. I tell my brother, "Big Buck! Big buck! And I swing my rifle around to the right, with full pack on, click the safety off and scope up to a faint image of this buck as he turns and dissapears ghost-like into the fog. If I had pulled the trigger, I probably would have killed him, but it just ain't right to be shootin at something you can't see! A few days later my brother goes back into the same area, does a little glassing, and then wonders if he were to walk down that same trail, could he possibly walk up to a big whitetail buck with a bad habit of standing there watching people walk by? As he walks through that same spot, he said the hair stood up on the back of his neck. He flipped his safety off and pussy footed along- walks around a tree and THERE HE IS!!!! standing there at about 25 yds just watching him. The deer does the turn and bolt thing. The hunter fires and misses - twice! Runs after him to a small drainage - watching, WATCHING... and the deer does a very un-whitetail thing and busts out the other side of the draw where my brother whacks him!!! He scores 104". Mike

Every time I climb a steep hill I snort and wheeze. Ain't called in nothin yet! Mike

Used to be. Used to be! They got all shot out, and the lions ate the rest of 'em. Every once in a while a deer swims across the Salt River from 24A, but they usually get shot just as soon as they shake the water off. Mike