Rembrant

Right on, Red Rabbit. Mike

I think the hunter's name is 'Ol Red. I wonder if he killed that deer with the aid of humans. What a great buck! There's the pinacle of Texas game ranching. I hunted Texas once. I missed the open spaces and wildness of Arizona. Mike

Good points! It probably is best that wounded animals don't die in home owners front lawns. But dang!! The atmosphere sure has changed in the last 30 years. I'm glad I didn't start a ruckus and wind up on the front page of the news. And I'm glad I didn't do something stupid like leave a gut pile in somebody's front yard. I certainly don't want to give anti hunters any ammunition. But as a result of this common sense approach, I have allowed the granola crowd to affect my behavior. That stinks! I think most of us would agree, though, that there must be some comprimises these days. Funny how we can all take the high road in a chat forum (and I think we're on the right track), but when the Game Dept makes accomodations for political correctness, we all - including myself - get really ticked off and call them whimps! The archer didn't aim for the gooses beak, you know. It's good that we're thinking about this stuff. Mike

There used to be some really big whitetail bucks on Cedar Hill in the middle of Fagstaff. I have a photo of a road-kill buck that may score a typical 120". I was chasing a different buck around with a camera that would easily go 100". Never did get good pics. It was rumered that a guy was trying to arrow one of these trophy bucks in a Sept hunt, when public panic put the warden on him with words of advice about common sense. I ran into Bob Barsh, WM for unit 7 while stomping Cedar Hill looking for whitetails one fine morning. I asked him about the legality and ethics concerning the bowhunting of deer in town. His answer was favorable to the idea, as it certainly is legal, yet discression and common sense was again emphesized. I haven't seen a whitetail in town for about 5 years now. I think they've all been road-killed out. I never had the courage/gumption to try. I just didn't want to be face to face with a screaming granola liberal non-hunter and wind up on the front page of the Daily Sun in my camos. Maybe that's just good comon sense, but now that the opportunity has passed, I kinda wish I had tried a time or two. Hunting geese is one thing, but 100" to 120" Coues Deer is in a whole 'nother league. Could you blame a guy for that? Mike

Sure, if you believe all that stuff. Mike

Reading Jennifer's write-up reminds me of the wonderful time that we Flagstaffians read poetry to the prairie dogs during their release into their new "digs". It was a shame that they had to be transplanted. It's not their fault that man built a city around their town, But at least they were moved with love and compassion. Mike

JVS, What do you mean when you hear "Flagstaff" that you think hippie??! Just 'cause when the Game Dept dispatches a problem lion we gather in a circle at the base of mt Elden, hold hands, burn sage and pray to... well... something...like some great higher power or something...so that the Mountain Lions spirit will rise... to... well... somewhere, or morph into a ravan, er, yeah, that's it - a spiritual ravan that will help us in our lives! We should be commended for writing letters to the editor, saying things like, "It would be honorable to die in the jaws of such a magnificant animal. This would be better than killing a lion just because man percieves it as a problem." AND YOU CALL US FLAGSTFFIANS HIPPIES???!!! Mike

Wow!

I believe Crotalas may be on the right track. I have read that there are several different species with blue pads other than the Engleman's Prickly Pear that is so prevelant in our state. a couple of possibilities are: Pancake Prickly Pear, and the Brown Spined P.P. Though they could also be Engleman's as well. Engleman's is the most common and the largest - in overall size and the size of the pads. If you're looking at a different species, it probably has considerably smaller pads than what you are used to seeing. Mike

You want to report 84% of Larks comments as Bachelor of Science???! Wow Lark, you ever get credit for being smart? Mike

Got a buddy that swears and lives by it. He's a guide on the Navajo Res. Says he's noticed that the domestic livestock is active at the same times as when the chart says the wildlife will be. I don't put too much stock in it. I gotta hunt hard when I get the time to do it. Mike

Part of a lot of folk's way of making a living is by shooting the breeze and sounding like they know what they're talking about. I think barbers fit into that catagory pretty well. Mike

The answer to that would be, greed. Mike

Sorry about the arm Bill. And maybe you've thought of this, but I think you may be qualified to use a crossbow during the archery hunt - with a handicap permit. That'd be a slick way to toss a wrench into the boiler room of a deer. Hey Larry, thanks for the well written and thought out response. Making the ranchers open access to the land that WE own would be the best thing. I think the ranchers should really be more accomodating in this area. Never did understand how they can legally keep us off OUR state and federal lands. What's to keep the state from whooping the 'imminant domain' thing on the ranches of this state and giving the land back to the people that own it. Heck, people have lost their homes so that strip malls could go in. I don't mean to be so antagonistic towards the ranchers, but denying the people of the state access to their lands is no small deal. Besides Arizona ranchers provide, what, 2% of the nation's beef?! Something to think about. Meanwhile the ranchers are locking up private hunting areas only as long as able bodied hunters don't backpack in and take advantage of the closures. There's always going to be the debate over hunter numbers and wildlife management. It will only get worse from here on. Personally, I think the Dept. does a good job, and it's a good thing that Dept. biologists and managers have the control over what takes place and not me, or other armchair managers that type their frustrations on this forum. Mike

Guess I don't care if you stay home, Bill. I didn't get a rifle tag this year either. It hurts bad. My younger brother and I make that the big event of our year. Last year we spent 11 backpacking days in the mountains. Since I didn't get a tag this year, I went with a buddy up to the Kaibab in December with cameras. What a kick. still didn't "get" a monster, but got pics of some other cool bucks. We plan to do that again in the absence of a late Coues tag. A late whitetail tag is a really important thing for me, but it doesn't make or break my life. Staying home is your choice. Mike

I'm putting in a few early hours today and then going deer hunting for three days. I'm going to my favorite area, and hunting my favorite species - in the rut! I was able to obtain this coveted tag for less than $25.00. AND I get to hunt for the entire month of January!! If I can't find the deer I want in January, I can use this same tag again in September for a couple of weeks, and if that don't work, I can go hunt again in December for a couple of more weeks! Not only that, but I can hunt my choice of two species of deer: Mule Deer, or Coues Whitetail. I got another inexpensive tag that I'll carry at the same time that allows me to harvest another fabulous big game species - Mountain Lion! Along with the price of these tags, I get the services of law enforcement. If I see someone doing something illegal, I have the opportunity, the privilage, and the responsibility to report them. There is a state agency that handles this. They'll take care of it. All I gotta do is report it. If I get stuck or lost, it might be these guys that help me out. I've seen them help people in these situations for years. These guys do everything! They even survey the animal populations to make sure that the herds aren't getting over-harvested or that the range is being over grazed. Heck, they'll even work with other agencies and ranchers with this. This is a good thing because I don't have this tag because I'm special; anybody can get this tag. Just go to Wall Mart and buy one!!! Another cool thing about this tag that I have is that it's an archery tag. But even though I have obtained an archery tag, I am still allowed to put in for the lottery draw that gives me a chance at getting a rifle deer tag for any unit of my choice!! And I'm supposed to be pissed off about this?!? It's not difficult to find bigger problems in life. Mike

Bill, Thanks for the history lesson. Sorry you've been holding that resentment in your crop for ... how many years? Do you guys think the deer resource that we have today that stands against 40000 permits could handle the pressure of 105000 permits? You guys don't mind bumping into other hunters in the field? How 'bout 104999 other hunters? Permit-less hunts are what has made Colorado's elk hunt what it is today- Raggy. And also New Mexico's deer permit-less areas. Scouted those lately? Our permit system in its conception was way ahead of its time. That's where all the other Western states are going and will end up. They have to, to protect the resource against over harvest. And they will do this at the cost of selling less permits - just like Arizona did. So the arguement that the Az Game Dept is all about money don't quite stand up, does it? Arizona's permit system is the best model of resource management in the West - reguardless of how it came about. Mike

It grieves me to see this whitetail forum used as a vehicle to bash our game Dept and its personel. Yep, there are "game wardens" that are real jerks. From my experience they are few and far between. I know a number of Wildlife Managers personally, and I can attest that they have considerably more than a thread of integrity. All I gotta trust a WM to do is earn his pay by upholding and inforcing the game laws of this state. If a WM can't do that, THEN he lacks integtity. The WM's that are jerks - need to be, and are begging to be - reported. That's our job. These guys are good at asking questions and having 'America's dumbest criminals' roll over. These guys are cops. It's their job. That's what we pay them to do, among other things. If you are not breaking the game laws, then you have nothing to fear from an Arizona Game Dept Wildlife Manager, and even though he will ask probing questions, he is your friend, and your employee doing his job. This isn't a perfect world, and I don't doubt that there have been bungled cases - just like there are a few jerks in the Dept. I don't know of the cases Josh is referring to. I'm sure he ain't making it up, but I do know that cops don't have to make stuff up for simple cases. They do try real hard however, to make cases against career criminals. The Dept knows who the habitual poachers are. These are the guys who should be antagonistic and real nervous around Game Wardens. Mike

Finnally started logging some hours in a tree. Deer seem to be laying low. Could be the hunting (rifle) pressure. Or they are just not rutting yet. Both of those problems will be finding a cure in about a week. Mike

Support for non-game species are paid for by the Heritage fund (Az lottery). Mike

OK, so were trying to get more tags so more people can get drawn. Seriously folks, even if we create hundreds of more tags, how will that give us better odds at getting drawn when there are ten's of thousands of applicants??! Kinda reminds me of bonus points or the old "eligible every third year" trick that we used to use for elk until we realized that against unsurmountable odds, a few hundred or a couple of thousand don't make no difference. The department is looking to maximize the resource. I can appreciate this, but do we really want to sacrifice our favorite hunts? I'm tellin ya, adding a thousand tags ain't gonna get me and you drawn any more than we are right now. Mike

Yeah, maybe the 10% non-resident elk tags will still sell even if they are not in the rut. And maybe I'm just really used to not having a lot of money, because I wouldn't pay a high dollar for a non-res archery elk hunt that is not in the rut. Arizona's big bulls are a magnet for out-of-staters, but it's the big bulls in the rut (at least in my mind) that is the bonanza. Seems to me that a money grabbing business would offer the finest product at the highest price - all the time. Right? Half the equasion here is money, and the other half is maximizing the resource. I think the dept deserves a little credit for being mindful of the resource and not just grabbing the high dollar. But I gotta tell ya, the thought of never again receiving an early archery bull tag or a late whitetail tag is really bothering me too. We better go to some meetings. Mike

Thank you for the information, Amanda. I agree with you, I prefer quality hunts. I also agree with you that the game dept is probably responding to public outcry about not getting drawn enough. Be careful what you wish for. There is only so much resource to go around. The dept is playing a shell game with management options that will supposedly make more people happy AND bring more revenue to the dept. We gotta face facts. There are too many people in this state. I used to get drawn for most everything all the time. Now there are more hunting opportunities everywhere (except for mule deer) and I can't buy a tag. If we're gonna be a squeeky wheel, we should squeek for maintaining quality hunts. Hows the dept gonna make more money by reducing archery rutting bull hunts? Everyone in the country wants an out a state archery bull tag. Weird. Mike

There are deer, antelope, sheep, lions and elk at a site on the Little Colorado near Woodruff. Mike

If you look at Mike Fabritz's link to his art site, and go to the antelope section you will see a petroglyph piece with an antelope. That is an actual pannel out at Wupatki Natnl monument. It's a way cool pannel. It has big goats and little goats and a bowhunter. I asked one of the guys on the hike if he thought the ancient artist was depicting large and small animals or using perspective, showing that the herd was spread out while running past the hunter. He said early man wasn't capable of using perspective. I dissagree. The Bible is 1 to 5000 years older than this petroglyph, and it is loaded with perspective! Also one of the larger goats has 5 legs!! I figure the artist was an early Speilburg - animation in rock!! The group on this hike came across one of the hundreds of pictures - a depiction of a girl with pig tails and breasts. The group was giving their interpretation of what they thought the meaning of the rendering was. The interpretations were wild and concerned spirits and shamans. Finally I could't stand it any more and said, "Maybe this girl was the village cutie, and her boyfriend did her portrait." Nobody knows this stuff because there was no written language in this part of the world back then. Maybe they were celestial, maybe they were spiritual, or maybe they were just common folk drawing pictures about everyday life. Mike