Rembrant

Ditto Mike

Yeah I think they do an excellent job. They walk a tight rope and jugle bottles to satify people that can never be content. I don't like all the hunts. Too many hunts, all stratified and stacked up all over the place. Never used to be like this. But there never were so many people wanting to hunt. I recently spoke to a guy that got ticked off in the early 70's when the dept. made people select a certain unit instead of having the whole state to hunt in. He got so mad, he quit hunting. I think all of todays dicontented people should do the same thing - quit, or move - then maybe I can get another elk tag. I think the Dept is running a business and they will always make unpopular business decisions. I think they should have seriously considered the ADA survey. I also think this was a Dept. mistake by not doing so. BUT - in a business environment, you have a few thousand signatures presented to you with some opinions, when the general public that you serve amounts to 500,000 strong. The general hunting public dwarfs the signed survey. The Dept has got to do what they think is right for everybody. And, we should be thankful that they don't act on all the fringe groups that toss demands at them also. Wasn't one of the main issues in the ADA survey, that we didn't want the Dept messing with the late whitetail tags and offering more early tags in an effort to allow more people to hunt? And at the same time, we are all disapointed that we can't get drawn? WHAT IS THE ANSWER HERE??!! I just now stated that I think there are too many hunts and in the same paragraph I invite people to quit hunting so I can get an elk tag. WHAT IS THE ANSWER HERE? The Dept does a wonderful juggling act in an impossible situation. And guess what? It will only get worse because people will keep moving here and having babies - and wanting to hunt. I applaud Mr. Gaines, TLH, and Mr. Quimbly with their calm, rational, common sense replies in these strings. There are a lot of cool educated people that write into this forum, who know the score. I would suggest that the complainers spend a little less time pounding their computers and a little more time fact finding. AGAIN, The problem is having a limited resource being pressured by too many people. If your rants, complaints and suggested solutions don't in some way chip away to find solutions to this most basic problem, then you are only blowing smoke. Mike

That looks exactly like what I did last weekend - except I didn't kill a deer, Congratulations!! awesome bow-kill!! Mike

RHINO, Think about what you just wrote, paraphrased: "I can't get a tag." " I don't like the idea of more tags." That's the dilema, buddy; there are too many people in this state that want to go hunting. Also, "No wonder our numbers are declining." Our numbers are not declining - that's why we can't get a tag. For some reason, hunters have a hard time identifying what the problem is. The problem is us, too many of US. The resource is limited, and the people are not. THAT is the problem. Put on your thinking cap and try to figure a solution. What? You don't have one yet? Either do I! But I know that our favorite past time of slamming the Game Dept. will only devide and conquer us in the long run. Moving to Montana is not a bad idea... Mike

Thanks Bill, Mike

That's a slammer!!!!! Way to be Adam. Mike

Deep, deep....sigh.... Mike

Congratulations Ernesto!!!! I'm proud of you my brother, Mike

I am an artist and was influenced early by Rembrandt. Mike

Happy b-day RR! Remember, getting old is the goal. Mike

Thanks desertbull for taking the time to read through the attachment that Amanda sent us and making an effort to understand it. I'm sitting here getting really concerned about us all and our negative responses towards the Game Dept, when now is the time to stand together. Muleybull, I had a similar experience in unit 10 a number of years ago: archery hunt, deer poached by rifle, I got the discription liscence plate - everything and reported it. Went to the field with a couple of game guys and showed them everything I could. They knew who it was, where they lived (Ashfork's local finest), but only did a 'knock and talk'. A Flagstaff detective friend of mine told me the game guys screwed up - that no judge in the world would deny a search warrent with that kind of info/witness. What the problem is here is a burnt-out game guy that doesn't care anymore. I should have gone over his head and still would, but this was 20 years ago. This stuff makes the dept. look bad, but is not representitive of the dept as a whole, just one piece of dead wood - that needs burning. I know some other game guys that you would not looking into your eyes and aking you questions if you had just poached something. These other guys will figure you out and bust you proper! The dead wood needs to be reported. Also, I agree that the sportsmens groups in this state are awesome! The Game dept needs them and us to help with everything. Your example of the Mule Deer Foundation doing work in 15A is beautiful, but the Mule Deer folks did not do this by themselves. Who do you think did the science? Don't they work WITH the Dept to determine where, how, and what to do? Can the Mule Deer people afford a wildlife habitat specialist? The Game and Fish WAS there. Here's another example of the impossible job that OUR Dept does for us: Every other year the Dept flies a helicopter for 50 hours over unit 12A to survey sheep, yet they only sell 2 tags a year. The finances aren't quit adding up are they? But if the sheep herd in this cliffy area is gonna be managed, they gotta do the flight surveys. So when folks start talking about the money-hungry Game Dept, just trying to get rich, they don't know what they are talking about. The Game Dept has an impossible job, yet they pull it off with OUR money for US. Thanks again desertbull. Mike

You guys are wiggin'!! Let me give you a clue. Amanda is smarter than about 20 of us all put together. She is very familiar with wildlife management and the workings of the Az Game Dept, as well as other game departments. It is Amanda that is using her site, time space and energies to help the Az G&F get the word out on this issue. This is an important issue. This is one of those issues that WILL easily affect the future of hunting in Arizona. The Az. G&F Dept, is not the bad guy here. The Governor and representitives that the non-informed and ignorant people of the great state of Calizona elected into office are now looking to rip-off a well organized and effecient Game Department that has enough forsight to fund itself for the future of OUR hunting privelidges. Apparently they don't think that habitat improvement and wildlife management is as important as what they want to spend the money on (and maybe it's not). But the Game dept. has its act together (in spite of what a lot of people on this site think), and this is money that is coming from us, the hunters, and earmarked for our continuing hunting future - not the governer's plans. What you are saying about the G&F not listening to the survey and now wanting help has some truth to it but is largely SPIN, narrow-mindedly focused on selfishness and pales in comparison to the importance of this issue at hand. If you don't understand what is going on and who the bad guy is, then quit typing long enough to go and find out what this issue is and what it will do to our hunting future. The Game and Fish bashing that goes on here on this site is deploreable and detrimental to what we all really believe to be good and right. WE are the Game and Fish. Devided we fall. Do the right thing. Mike

Yep, it's gone. Set it up over the Thanksgiving weekend, then I didn't get to bowhunt in Dec 'cause I was on the North Rim helping a buddy find sheep. Finally got out in the whitetail woods with my '07 tag, and went to my "A" spot. The trails looked good with good sign on the salt spot. Took a gander up at my treestand and it was gone! Stood there for a moment and wondered why someone would take another man's tree stand - right out of the tree - without talking to him about it first!? He must have needed it more than I do. Or yeah, that's it, he just borrowed it and will bring it back after season. So what to do now? Don't wanna take the time to go somewhere else. Besides, this place looks good. Wind's blowing steadily in one direction. There's a blessing. That made it easy; just sat 30 yards down wind, removed a few more limbs, moved an oak log, to sit on, next to a ponderosa, for a back rest. Butt pad down on the log, range finder to check distances; I'm huntin'! Know what? This is actually another blessing. Just getting over a bout with food poisoning and it was tough shooting my bow yesterday. My biggest fear was to not be able to draw my bow from the treestand. Gotta count the blessings. I love sitting in the woods. Gives me time to sort out all kinds of thoughts and emotions. Good time to talk to God. Decided I'd forgive the guy that borrowed my stand - even if he doesn't bring it back. I got it as a gift from a good buddy anyway. Seen a lot of deer out of it too. Hope it serves him well. Sittin in the woods lets me sort out the stuff that's bothering me. I can usually find humer in most of it and wind up laughing. I just sat there and grinned about a whole bunch of stuff. If someone were to be watching me from the woods through binos - sittin there grinnin and chuckling all by myself - they'd know I'm a crackpot! Gotta remind myself to hold still and be quiet - I'm huntin! Then all of a sudden, off to my right, I see a deer head - ears spread wide, head low to the ground, 30 feet away and coming my way!! It's a buck, and a good one! Never heard him come out of the manzanita and mohogany in the wind. I have my bow on my lap, arrow nocked, release attached, and there's no way I can move! All I can do is watch his approach, wondering how close he'll come before he sees me sitting there at ground level. Closer... closer... I was gettin a real good look at this guy - didn't dare blink! His neck hair was long and sticking straight out of his swollen rutty neck. He looked so puffy that his nose appeared to be really short. His rack was framed like a 95 to 100 class, about as wide as his ears and tall, but his G-3's were each only about an inch long. He would probably score in the mid to high 80's though he was a big mature buck. Closer... He reaches the place where I yanked the oak log out of the ground and stops with a flinch - knowing something is amiss - at 12 feet! The wind was perfect. He couldn't smell me, but I could smell him! Then he proceeds on in the same direction, and I increadiously watch as mature Coues deer buck passes in front of me at 8 feet!!!! Unbelievable! As he walks past, I slowly move my head to keep watching. He senses this and takes a couple of hurried steps. I freeze and he resumes his relaxed walk. My mind is going a million miles per hour - can I draw now? Nope. can I get a picture? the camera's right next to me. Nope. What can I do??!! Nothing. He's already behind more mohogany at 15 feet. Unbelievable! Would I have got a shot if I was up in the treestand? Nope. For the rest of the afternoon, I just sat there and replayed the episode in my mind over and over, and grinned and laughed, and hoped he'd come back so I could throw an arrow at him! Then I realized that God has an even better sense of humer than I do! Sure do love Him. Mike

All symptoms of a greater problem: overpopulation of humans. The blame lies nowhere. We've had this discussion numerous times. Pound on you keyboard and point your finger all you want; it won't change anything. The Dept is running a business and providing a service. There is no answer to having too many people in the state. If you want to get drawn for everything all the time, then move to a state like Wyoming that has only one area code. If you really think its a conspiracy then don't support the culprits - don't hunt. Why would you give money to someone you hate when you don't have to? I don't like the problem either, but I'm not gonna let it steal my peace. "...accept the the things I cannot change and the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference." Wise up. Mike

Hang in there Mike, and welcome to the club!! I fell 15 feet 30 years ago, also from a treestand - but while climbing down. Landed on my upper shoulders/neck and broke - in all - 7 vertibrae. I'm glad I didn't break a leg or dislocate a shoulder!! Show off!!! Now you get to take a time out, relax, and think about what is important in life. Count your blessings, buddy. I'm glad you're there to read this e-mail. Mike

Any more free Mexico tags? I wanna go! Mike

Ah yes, the botfly! I used to do some field work with a mamologist named Ruffner. Every once in a while we would catch a field mouse with a botfly larvae that was almost as big as the host! Poor little fellers. I've seen a couple of dozen of them suckers fall out of the throat of an otherwise healthy 90" buck taken from 6B. They really are disgusting the way they pulsate to move around. Mike

If you're gonna dance, you gotta pay the band. Mike

TAM, Treestandman, Thanks TAM for "enjoying and respecting my thoughts". I appreciate that. Nope I can't back up the statement. Just another opinion - based on other people's opinions. I thought Bobbyo laid it out pretty good on page 6 of this string in describing the recent kills of certain people. This looks suspicious - at least to me. I have also had conversations with people in touch with deer population dynamics about this sort of thing and their opinions aren't unlike mine. There have been court cases, bannings from Indian reservations, and a heck of a lot of monster bucks showing up in magazines (please notice that I am not mentioning any names). I also know that the biggest of bucks are at the smallest point on a population pyramid - there ain't that many of them. We are the deer hunters. We know that. But, can I show you any numbers, and qualify my statement. Nope. I also feel bad about ruffling anybody's feathers by describing a group of people as "selfish". I had to look clean around the 2 x 4 in my eye to see the wood in theirs. I like to kill big bucks too. Thanks for keeping me honest, Mike

Mr. Treestand, man! My opinion was on chute planes in an Ulmer string. You put the two together. I do not agree with you either, but I respect your opinion none the less. Bobbyo called it. There aren't that many giant bucks out there, and the chuters are pounding them. I like the fact that there may be giant bucks out there to be killed by anyone. For a handful of guys to be getting giants year after year after year shows me that they don't care if there are giant bucks out there for ANYONE to kill; they want them all! What are their motives? You figure it out, or if you feel that is politically incorrect, ask the people you are defending to write in and explain it for themselves. Mike

A wise man named Lark once said that if it's legal, then ethics are only opinions. It is my opinion that ultra light/chute plains are bad for the sport. Bobbyo said it very well; the rare giant bucks are getting unnaturally leaned on. And whether it be because of money, pressure, or reputation, it is pure selfishness. Mike

Thank you all, nice people. Just happened to notice this thread. I've been out for a few days trying to find a good friend a ram on the North Rim. Thanks for caring... man, I'm getting old! Mike

Ain't no Coues in 5BN. Nope, ain't haven' it. That is laughable! Never was, never will be. People gonna think you're nuts! Too High, too flat, too many mule deer and elk. Snows too much. Not enough cactus. Too close to Flagstaff. Don't make sense. Would be a waste of time lookin' for 'em. And if there was, they wouldn't get big. Not enough to eat, and the locals would have poached 'em out. I know all the poachers - they ain't said nothin'. Ain't seent 'em! Banish the thought. Mike

One time I arrowed a 5 point doe!! She had 4 teats and a tail. Mike

Way to be Will! Find your way in and you'll have it to yourself. Most people don't have the intestinal fortitude to get'er done. Mike