Alpinebullwinkle

There are pockets of good mulies up high but to increase your odds I would recommend well below the rim where the greater concentrations are:4bar, Mudsprings, Juan Miller and the lower Blue

I'd estimate 4 more weeks of growth left basically. Every year I see the first rubs about August 7.

Pine Donkey sounds like you and I are basically on the same wave length. Lots of root causes for the significant decline in mule deer in unit #27 since the 1980's but at the top of the list and far ahead of all the other root causes is a significant increase in predators and predation impact. Most trapping was banned and there are far fewer lion hunters with dogs for many reasons. Addition of the wolf has impacted the elk population probably moreso than the deer but still an impact to consider. JMHO from someone that is in the forest more than most.

I can't talk intelligently about whether the oldest and most dominant deer are ready to go first but with respect to elk I have seen both sides of it. Some monster bulls have a large harem in late August and appear "ready to go" and then again I witness many older bulls that let the younguns round up the cows and then come in later (sometimes real late) when most of the work is done and take over the operation! Interesting subject to discuss.

Joel you are also a hero in my mind to organize this effort for these brave fire fighters. Coming from Alpine we all hold a special place in our hearts for all firefighters that put their life on the line to save our highly valued assets (both people and property). Thanks for organizing this wonderful effort.

Last year we found out our results on July 19th. Might be a couple more weeks sportsfans!

I might add that many of these types of skulls I have found have had the rib cages nearby with obvious saw cuts through them. Still searching for an explanation on these findings?

There is no doubt in my mind those horns were sawed off and the remains appear to be weathered. I also have found a few skulls like that and always wondered the circumstances and why they would't take the whole skull and horns? Maybe just a small bull?

If the Rosemont mine becomes like the Morenci Mine as far as wildlife in the surrounding area then all the wacko left wing opponents of this proposed mine should welcome the new mining activity. Morenci has the best sheep herd in the state which is utilized by AGFD to transfer the sheep to "less desirable habitat" around the state. What the wacko "environmentalists" seem to be naive about is the mining districts provide excelllent habitat for deer, sheep and other wildlife since they have less predators to wipe out those endangered species!

The elk rubs??? The USFS told me they wish to eliminate most of the elk because they are damaging "all" the aspen. Thanks to their mismanagement of the forest about 50% has burned down in the last 10 years. Now all the elk in the world could not make a dent in the apen population of our Arizona forests!!

So does anyone understand this thought process or justification why game cameras are considered illegal in wilderness areas? I do understand that the USFS has the desire to keep all us humans out of wilderness areas for some unknown reason also!

Bulls will give their "Tarzan call" off an on all summer, particularly after a well needed rain to express their appreciation I guess. The cows and calves have also been very vocal the last few weeks which also is not unusual. What I don't like to hear is the coyote and wolf calls which usually spells death for the elk

Had a fantastic day three days ago and got into a "bull pen". Saw 13 bulls and jumped many more that I couldn't quite identify horns but the tracks were obvious. Even though the wheat has not come in like the last two years and precipitation not as good as hoped it does appear we will have an average horn growth or better based on what I have seen to date. One herd had 6 bulls all with 6 points started. I don't ever expect we will match last years record horn growth but appears this year will still be very good.

Does anyone have an update on the latest status of the USFS ongoing effort to revise our priviledges in the National Forests? Last I heard the changes should be finalized and implemented some time in 2014. I have attended most of the public meetings and obtained maps of all the roads the USFS initially proposed to close. Based on my rough inspection of these maps the USFS desires to close about 90% of the roads in units #27 and #1. This would create much more "defacto wilderness area" without going thru the proper channels to designate wilderness area, besides the fact that it would not be in the best interests of the National Forest or its stakeholders. More importantly IMHO it would be discriminatory to the elderly, younger families and handicapped, some whom have had access on these existing roads to enjoy wildlife for over 40 years! My biggest concern is that we are going to lose significant access and camping priviledges (unknowing to the general public) and then it will be too late to avoid the loss of priviledges that the USFS seems so motivated to implement.

Find a tree the elk cannot push over when they rubbed it, raise you hand up as high as possible to measure, and if the top of the rub is one foot above your extended hand...........shoot him immediately.......if not sooner!

Hopefully the USFS listens to public input and revises back to significantly less road closures than they originally proposed. I have noticed that they are being creative in counting "reopened roads" that mysteriously were closed unknowingly to the general public likely in an attempt to soften the optics of the overal impacts. I'm still anticipating the public will be unpleasantly surprised when all is said and done.

Cool Bitter24. Wishing you safe and successful workdays and shed hunting.

Good post Snapshot. Unfortunately that picture reflects a sad but true perspective of what is happening with our current leadership.....or more appropriately stated "dividorship".

What type of work do you do.....besides picking up sheds?

Pine Donkey I acknowledge seeing the same increase in mule deer population the last few years as you. However I don't know if it is that they are now "recovering" or the fact that 50% of the forest is burned and viewing of wildlife is now easier? Maybe our AFGD posters can comment based on their aerial surveys?

Unit #27 has been my unit of choice since 1973 and probably know it as well as anyone. The mulie population seemed to start its terrible decline about 1980 IMHO. The mulie population declined so much in the northern part of the unit that I felt guilty shooting one and gave up on mulie hunts about 10 years ago. On the contrary the coues have done well (maybe even bigger population) since the 1980's mulie decline. I'm sure less precipitation has some impact on the mulie decline but without a doubt predators are the biggest reason for the decline. Coues seem to deal with the predator problem better which explains to me what we have witnessed in both deer populations since 1980 or so. Granted there are random fair populations of mulies below the rim, but not enough for me to feel good about killing one, so I remain a coues hunter probably the rest of my life and moreso an elk hunter, when priviledged with a tag or guiding family, friends, or paying customers.

"The social tolerance for predators in the West is very low". If the proponents for the wolve program had any slight bit of common sense they would understand why the above quote is gospel and very appropriate thought process. In other words the key issues that led to near extinction of the wolves have only worsened which demonstrates how foolish and wasteful the wolf reintroduction program really is!!

Do you suppose that maybe we should be supporting the wolf reintroduction area expansion to include Phoenix and Tucson? Maybe after the wolves establish themselves within our two biggest cities and start preying on urban folks pets that people will wake up and understand why us rural folks are so against this ill-advised and wasteful wolf reintroduction program.

Good idea for a separate forum for those fishing for elk or deer hunting partners. Sometime the need may be for the whole hunt or maybe for partners after the first weekend when many call it quits and go back to work. Perhaps we need a forum for each hunting unit/specie/hunt

If these folks can't tell the difference between a terrorist and a legitimate presidential candidate then how can they expect us to determine the difference in the wild between a coyote, government dog (half bred wolf) or a true endangered specie wolf???? Geeezzzzz!!! What is this world coming to as Grandma used to say!!!