Alpinebullwinkle

Wonder if the wolf reintroduction supporting organizations are going to reimburse our AGFD for the lost revenue due to 385 less elk permits being issued this year? They should be paying for it IMHO as those revenues go toward managing all species!!

Mocha I wonder if my brother dated that same girl friend as yours. He has drawn only 5 bull elk tags in 44 years and the only reason he drew his 5th was he put in for the November archery hunt by mistake (rather than the September archery hunt)

Prior to the computer being involved I actually thought item #1 was a legitimate issue. I would purposely put in the last few days to hopefully take advantage of "centrifugal force" when we were still on the "paper barrel system". It seemed to be a successful strategy as I was drawn for bull tags 9 out of 11 years. Since the computer has been utilized my draw success has been less than average. An interesting sidebar when I was getting all those elk tags I was not drawn for deer on 9 years straight (when no one seemingly was denied). Obviously I didn't complain when the elk tags continued to roll in!! No rhyme or reason to the draw IMHO.

Good to hear that feedback as I am in the same situation with a family health issue. Hoping to get out within a week or so.

Nice shed you have on your pack

Good to see a few mulies around town again. A few years ago I had 11 mulies that would come thru my yard almost daily.......and then I saw a big tom cat lion in my driveway. As you can guess the mule deer all disappeared. Only had one mule deer this year and it was a doe.

Beautiful buck with lots of character. I would have pulled the trigger also......even though I have passed up a few 100" bucks!

Great story and congratulations on your families success. Without question Bill is proud of your recent accomplishments. We all will miss Bill who was a great guy and pal.

I shot my best Coues deer four years ago on a spot and stalk archery hunt early September. He scored 121" gross in velvet. I pulled back on one buck about 5" bigger an hour and a half earlier in the same location, but I wasn't fast enough to let the arrow do its job. I then checked out an adjacent ridge. When I returned to the original ridge I spotted my buck bedded at 24 yards, with likely the same 100" buck I passed up earlier at 15 yards. Admittedly this was the luckiest day hunting in my life as I saw 9 beautiful bucks on this morning hike. The key was a thunder and lightning storm that scared the crap out of me on that ridge...... but luckily turned out to be worth the risk!

Awesome mass and height of rack....among other things. Congratulations. Care to share what unit you got this dandy out of ?

I also get frustrated finding cameras in some of my remote spots that formerly I never saw other hunters. It is disappointing. Having said that I get great enjoyment and exercise maintaining six cameras as "an old geezer" and would be very sad if they were outlawed. I do not view cameras as much of an advantage as other technology advances such as the compound mechanical bows that can kill an animal +100 yards or scopes on muzzleloaders that make them lethal at 150-200 yards. IMHO these technology advantages would have to be outlawed before game cameras as they give a "shooting advantage" where game cameras only give a "location advantage". Pretty simple debate in my opinion....... but I'm sure it will be colorful.

I'll listen Flatlander.......and I highly value your opinion, even though I may not agree with everything. That also applied to Packer and his former posts. I was very proud of that WM taking the time and initiative to communicate with us outdoors enthusiasts on this forum, even though there were people like me that did not always agree with everything that he stated. I particularly took issue with him when he stated that he didn't think the wolf reintroduction program had much of an impact on our elk population in unit #27. Since I am mostly a year round resident of Alpine and probably spend more time in the woods than most people I know better than to poo poo the impact of that program on our elk herd. Unfortunately Packer no longer seems to be communicating with us on this forum, and I certainly miss his input. With respect to the "scientific justification" to reduce elk herds after the fire I can say on behalf of unit #27 the habitat ended up one year later being the best I had seen in my +40 year experience in that unit. The aerial seeding post fire and the new aspen growth the following year are directly responsible for record horn quality the two years following the fire. Can't say that for this year as we had an extremely dry spring when horn growth was critical pre-monsoon season. Prior to the fire, we enjoyed viewing 20-36 beautiful bulls in the Alpine township on a daily basis. Since the fire this privilege no longer exists.....simply because there is better feed in the forest now and the town meadows are no longer valued for preferred nourishment by the bulls. We also have much less elk overall as I have previously pointed out. My biggest concern aside from the wolf and predator impacts on herd dynamics is how the bulls have been slaughtered in the late gun hunt after Thanksgiving the last two years. Harvest rate has to have gone up significantly due to the better optics provided by the fire. Additionally I have heard many horror stories of hunters finding dead carcasses of untagged bulls left to waste at a rate never before heard of. Also the calving rate does not seem to have improved like you would expect post fire with improved nutrition in the forest. Again.......predator impact is the suspected explanation for that surprise IMHO. These are among many of the reasons why I am so concerned about our future elk hunting prospects for us and our grand kids.

Bob the turkey population seemed to be increasing nicely in my opinion up to the Wallow Fire. Thought it would explode after the fire, but doesn't seemed to have gotten better surprisingly. Only thing I can guess is the high predator population now is suppressing what should be an increasing population post-fire. Also, I believe we lost almost all of the turkey reproduction during the year of the fire due to the timing of it.

Arizona population and hunting applications continue to rise annually. Predator populations have exploded since the trapping/poisoning bans and wolf reintroductions. Both trends are on a collision course to catastrophe......which will lead to more disappointment to both hunters and wildlife viewers. Most outdoor enthusiasts and clubs understand this concern. The question is who will prevail....... and will our grand kids have the same privileges that we all enjoyed. Take Steve Clark's advice and join an outdoor conservation group......... and let your voices be heard!!! The current trend is not your friend!!!

I gave up hunting mule deer about 15 years ago in unit #27 because of the declining numbers as I would feel guilty shooting one. Instead have gone to coues hunting since they seem to have done better in that period due to the increase in predators since trapping has been banned and other negative impacts on top of it........ like wolves. Elk hunting in unit #27 is now 50% the experience (and herd size) since the peak population of about 1999. Since the fire with 50% of the forest burned, increased visibility has resulted in increased gun hunt harvest rates. USFWS plans to add another +200 wolves to the equation which will certainly go a long way to reducing hunting privileges as we formerly enjoyed. Wish I could share a more positive outlook for all us hunters but the deck seems to be staked against us. Join and outdoor conservation group and let your voices be heard!!!!

Very nice coues deer. Was that a unit #27 by any chance?

The first year after the fire I viewed numerous elk limping around from broken legs suffered presumably from falling in a burned out tree stump depression while running from a predator. In fact we have a crippled cow elk that resides permanently in the town of Alpine (the last 3 years) very wisely since she knows she can no longer escape predators in the wild.

Explorer I can tell you from all my extensive hunting and scouting experiences that Unit #27 now has about 50% of the elk population that it formerly had at its peak about 1999. The additional wolf reintroductions that we are now hearing will occur soon will result in a shift to other units as more desirable hunting targets. Many cow hunters have complained to me the last two years that they do not even see hardly a cow on their hunts!

Yup I'm sure I listened to their quacking quite a bit this fall.

Great job on the hunt and video. Did you folks stay at the Josh Ranch for your hunt?

Looks like you folks spanked a couple of my pets. What do you estimate the largest bull scored?

Sounds right Snapshot. Those bulls are in some pretty inaccessible places about now.....maybe not so much for gun, but definitely for bow hunting!

I agree with Bill Quimby that elk antler quality has definitely improved over the last 40 years. AGFD must be given good credit for that fact. As far as unit #27 though, the herd size peaked about 1999 and is now about -50% of that 1999 peak, unfortunately. Chalk that up to the wolf reintroduction program, and excessive cow hunting permits being granted. The most frustrating to me is the cow hunting permits granted for the month of August. Many cows have calves not much more than a month old in August and when mama is killed, the calf survival rate due to predators is negatively affected.......exponentially for the motherless calf! I have been encouraging AGFD for years to totally eliminate August cow hunting privileges, and also reduce the cow permits overall. I'm guessing my quacking is falling on deaf ears due to their strong motivation to optimize hunter opportunities.........as well as tag revenues!

Those look like record book boots to me!

There is water everywhere now in #27 and in some places that never formerly held permanent water. A consequence of the Wallow Fire that is one of the few positives