Alpinebullwinkle

I have a 7-ponter like that one I found 4 years ago that goes over 17 pounds. Found it 6' off the ground in a tree within a week of being shed. Tracked it as best I could. Figure it is a +400 bull with normal spread. Made 26 unsuccessful trips the last few years looking for the match (which I would mount if I found it). Doesn't look like I will ever find the match....... but I will keep trying every year until I head for the happy hunting ground likely!

I have a few "honey holes" that I used to be able to pick up 15-20 horns in a day of hiking. Monster horns! Haven't gone back for years simply because I'm many years older now and my wheels do not work as well. Stated differently......my tether has gotten shorter. But there are no roads to these areas so I'm certain 4 wheelers would not be an issue of concern to me (like other whiners) if I could still get there

What I like to do viewing rubs when scouting for a specific bull to hunt is find a tree rub on a tree that a bull cannot bend over (generally about 6" or greater), raise my hand up above my head........and if the top of the rub is one foot or greater above my extended hand..........go git em!!!!!!

"When there is lead in the air........there is hope". Famous quote from a famous person that is a famous friend of mine!

Same situation here in unit #27 of Arizona. Tire tracks of quads everywhere, lots of people looking and not a whole lot of reports of tremendous success. Guess that is to be expected on the feedback. I've also struggled finding only 5 browns this year (two matching sets)last week. Seems like the elk might be going back to shedding in the areas they formerly did prior to the Wallow Fire of 2011. Then again, there are a lot less bulls to shed horns compared to former years!

My favorite spot is just "over there"..........and just around the next bend!!!

Gents let me explain where I am coming from in a little more detail (and facts). Admittedly my comments are more focused on unit #27 which I am most familiar with, live in, and have enjoyed for over 45 years. The TMP effort was initially kicked off for our area by the USFS in 2007. I attended every public meeting possible to share my input in the process. The TMP effort was interrupted by the devastating Wallow Fire of 2011, and has still not been fully implemented. Every year though for the last 10 years or so, more and more secondary roads mysteriously have been closed. When I have challenged the USFS on some of the more impactful closures they claim I must have missed the public meeting they had in advance of the closure. Also, in those early public TMP meetings, the USFS shared a proposal they claimed was "backed by the general population" that would close 85-90% of the existing roads in Unit #27. This is FACT because I still have copies of the USFS map proposals on my walls!! Unit #27 already has a significant % or road less real estate when you consider the Bear Wallow Wilderness and Blue Primitive areas which are massive in acreage. When I challenged the USFS on these proposed road closures I explained my family had been enjoying fishing, hunting, and wildlife viewing (among other things) for over 40 years on those roads they were proposing to close. Their response was they were logging roads that were not NEPA approved, even though many of them had been highly improved with gravel. They said we had been enjoying those roads with the public for all that time "unauthorized", making us feel like criminals! It is very clear to our family that the hidden agenda of our current USFS leadership is to protect all the forest assets by simply prohibiting the public of normal access. By doing so though, it also restricts the USFS from responsibly managing their forests. Years ago the USFS used to do many physical projects that enhanced our National Forest assets. These included constructing dirt and trick tanks to provide water for wildlife. Many of our smaller streams were dammed up to provide water holes for enhanced fishing habitat. These man-made barriers also allowed the fish to survive drought or severe winter years. Unfortunately our National Forests are now under leadership with a different agenda, one that focuses more on studies, and less interested in physical actions that would improve our National Forests. There are literally hundreds (maybe thousands) of dirt water tanks that have completely filled up with the runoff/erosion from the Wallow Fire. Without access roads these critical sources of water for our wildlife will never be restored. Yes I do feel the proposed road closures would be discriminatory to many human classes. Maybe even more important though, these significant road closures will prevent the USFS from efficiently doing their job! I sure wish we could return to the former days when the USFS had high integrity and managed our resources responsibly. The Alpine District Forest Ranger has been recently relocated to an assignment back east. Hopefully the new replacement will be more responsive to our local needs, and we can realize positive progress for the benefit of our National Forest treasures......... and also for the general public to enjoy responsibly. Sorry for the rant, but you probably noticed a little bit of passion on this issue, and concern for the current direction by our USFS leadership.

If you shoot the monster you are looking for maybe it would be to your advantage to have your meat mixed with others that have smaller bulls and better meat. The old bulls we have killed we have had a tough time cutting the gravy with a knife!!

What a wonderful and positive thread for a change! I'm like everyone else in the fact that I don't always agree with every single decision the AGFD makes. Having said that, I recognize and appreciate the many positive changes the department is responsible for over the last 20-30 years. They truly are making a great effort to communicate and work with all of us stakeholders. Unfortunately I cannot say that about our USFS that seems to have taken a reverse path.

Talked to a guy today in unit #1 that saw a good herd of mature bulls yesterday and he said every bull still had his horns attached. This is later than I ever remember.

AZbackwoods are you relatives of the Grammers? Please share the rest of the "Paul Harvey story"

Fifteen years ago I had a few places I could find as many as 20 sheds in a day. Not any more unfortunately. And it is not because of four wheelers because they can't navigate where I used to go. The difference in unit #27 is half the elk population compared to long ago. Also the elk behaviors have changed since the Wallow Fire. But I do encounter some of the frustrating 4 wheeler traffic in places that were formerly foot travel only.... so I sympathize with what you folks are saying. Many changes in the last 15 years.

Great accomplishment and video......... and what a fantastic memory for a father and daughter!

Becker I might add that the wolf reintroduction program is a perfect example of what I am talking about in the last two sentences of my response to you!

Interesting. I wonder if Jim Grammer was aware of that or ........what the rest of the "Paul Harvey story" is???? Have any additional info to add???

Becker my information comes from 45+ years of living in, hiking, fishing, hunting and guiding in units #27 & #1. Personal experiences from countless hours in "gods country" should count slightly more than random surveys that may or may not be accurate due to many variables. I've done many personal surveys also, which I have always shared with my AGFD pals and contacts. I like data also........if it is reliable, interpreted correctly, and communicated honestly. I'm sure you understand that isn't always the case in this crazy world now.

"I am capable of walking" MT just remember that while you may be "very capable now" you will get older eventually, and your tether will shorten with time. There are many older, younger, and also handicapped outdoor enthusiasts that have lost significant access to our national forest treasures due to road closures in recent years and special land designations. That spells discrimination in my book........ in many ways.

All kidding aside the late bull hunt has been a massacre the last few years since the fire. Improved sight vision and newfound desire of the bulls not to migrate like the pre-fire days are some of the root causes of the elk herd decline (along with the expanding wolf population). Finding a greater amount of unclaimed dead bulls these days also.

Coati used to be going home without a bull in the September bull gun hunt was unheard of. Not trying to rub it in. Just pointing out how far the quality (or quantity) of the unit #27 elk hunt has fallen in recent years. The decline continues for many reasons I have previously quacked about! Very sad trend to experience.

Good luck to you Jeff. Looks like all our gang struck out this year on elk. So I might just have to repurchase my guides license and help someone else out.

So you're saying I have a chance??????

No fish yet reported at Luna but catching a few at Big Lake and Nelson seems the hottest of all so far.

Luna has been over flowing for the last couple of weeks. Not sure on the others though MC

What I am finding interesting is I haven't seen hardly anyone claim that they drew a tag of "whatever" in my back yard unit #27? Perhaps AGFD decided to eliminate hunting in that unit this year since the wolves are getting more than their fair share? Congratulations to all that were successful drawing this year. Unlike last year, that had about the worst horn quality I had seen due to the dry spring, its setting up for fantastic horn quality this year. Four successive days of rain in Alpine last week has made it the greenest I can remember for this time of year. Excellent timing for those rains with the horns now hitting the ground.

Cody I have been proposing to AGFD (for over 9 years now) to square the bonus points to make the system more effective. I realize it takes some of the luck out of the equation which some hunters prefer. What I do not understand is why AGFD has never been able to explain to me why they are not interested in this enhancement to the system?