Alpinebullwinkle

Another "impactful" rain in Alpine yesterday

Really proud of the Apache County Board of Supervisors for taking actions to protect sportsmen's rights in our area. They have recently passed Resolution # 2011-20 "declaring the exclusive authority of Apache County, Arizona over certain roads, rights-of-way and routes of travel within the boundaries of Apache County and located on certain lands also managed by the USFS and BLM". They also passed Ordinance # 2013-07 setting forth emergency predator/human incident protective measures. Sounds like they don't quite go along with some of the unreasonable actions being crammed down our rural throats from non-residents with hidden agendas !

Ten straight days of at least sprinkles to a few good short term rains now in Alpine. Never before experienced this in the spring time! Will be interesting to see what horn quality we get this year....... but I'm guessing "above average" at this point with the greenery currently in the forest.

Got it now....thanks Ruger!

Yes I am much older than you Bob...... but I have to say I don't look a day older than 97!!! ......and Ruger still no PM from you. I was receiving PM's last year's hunting seasons but have to say I haven't seen one in quite a while???

Ruger I have not seen a PM. You might try and resend.

I really appreciate your excitement and enjoy these posts Bob. Kind of reminds me of my personal excitement in my younger days. If you were the holder of a unit #27 tag I would feel privileged to share my experiences and help you out as much as possible. Good luck on your hunt and looking forward to some great pictures to document your future success.

Well unfortunately you can add me to the club of those that have had a trail camera stolen from them. I've had numerous cameras out for about 10 years now in unit #27 without a problem. Have had buddies complain of stolen cameras and tree stands in the unit though. Guess I have been "lucky" to-date. Yesterday I noticed someone had to have used bolt cutters to cut the heavy steel cord and lock I had on my camera. The camera even had my name on it. Disappointing to see how low hunter ethics seems to be going now. I'm assuming it was another hunter and not the rancher for the area or the USFS. Increasing trash in the forest and theft are very concerning trends in the forest these days. Like my son said whomever the dishonest person is........he likely will have bad luck hunting in the future. Unfortunately hunters, that formerly were the most honorable group of outdoor enthusiasts, have suddenly become people that can no longer be trusted!!!!!

Great rain and hail today in Alpine. That makes three days in a row with precipitation. Alpine is looking about the best I have seen it for this time of the year! Oh....and most years I have seen bulls with the start of 5 points by late April. Best yet this year is a 3 point..... but admittedly I haven't been out as much as normal this year.

I'm no expert either Murfy. All I can do is comment about what I have observed from +40 years in the area. An interesting thing I forgot to mention about last years horn growth for deer......while bulls had the poorest I had seen, the deer did much better and were average or better horn growth. The deer shedding and horn growth cycle is 1-2 months delayed from elk. Timing of the moisture is everything..... maybe more so than quantity!

"a good way to tell is by looking at their 4th and 5th antlers. If they are getting good moisture during the last part of their growth then the 5th's will be bigger". I can't say that I agree with that statement. We normally have good rains and monsoons late July/early August which is the late part of their horn growth. Seems to me it is more critical to get "adequate rains" prior to the annual monsoon season when horns are just getting started. In other words if their horns are somewhat stunted from a dry spring and they get a late or slower start....... they never recover...... because they are very routine in early August when they start rubbing their horns. I usually find my first rubs somewhere between August 7-9 and I don't think that changes much due to weather circumstances. Having said all this I am excited about the recent rains/snows the last two days. We are setting up this year for a good to maybe even above average horn growth IMHO. Even though we had a mild winter, we already had some timely rains/snow when the horns started dropping this year in late February and early March. Last year we had a very good monsoon season at the end of the horn growing period (late July/early August). We had an extremely dry spring (March/April/May). Horn quality last year in units #27&1 was the worst I had seen in 40 years! This year from the very timely (but not a lot) moisture we have seen I am optimistic we will have worst case an average horn growth year and hopefully with more timely rains an above average year considering the left over nutrients from the Wallow Fire. Would be good to finish off this interesting thread after the archery hunt to verify these philosophies.

hmmmmm. I've run into that "road closed" trick a few times in unit #27 in the last few years during the September archery hunt. The road was formerly open all year prior and after the hunt. And I found the sign after the hunt....... hidden off in the bushes. Suppose USO has ownership of that trick? Anyone else in any other units running into this "unpleasant surprise" ???

Thanks SHED. I should have added that even though I have always found the bigger racks at the lower elevations I am now finding bigger racks (than normal) at the higher elevations.....post Wallow Fire......which we probably all understand

Yes Matthews I am like you and always found my bigger sheds at the lower elevations and the rag horns up high. AZSHEDGIRL the other reason I asked you the question on distance/elevation between pictures and sheds is we have a "club bull" that is the most unique rack I have ever seen. We hunted him last year unsuccessfully. I have many pictures of him at two different camera sites 1.5 miles apart within the same week. Just trying to get an idea from your similar experiences where I should be looking for his sheds. It would make my day (year) if I could find them!!

Can I ask approximately how far (in miles) did you find the shed compared to where you took the picture of him? That statistic would be very interesting.....as well as knowing the incremental elevation difference. In unit #27 the traditional answer to those questions used to be 1-2 miles with an incremental elevation difference of 500-1000 feet. Of course those stats have now changed thanks to the Wallow Fire impacts on the herds.

What an awesome creation. Great job!!

Hey Knothead I had the same thing happen to me and received two archery bull tags in the mail. Think it was more like 15 years ago though. Ironically due to my trophy hunting goal at the time I didn't fill either tag!

I bring all the white sheds in and use as ornaments in our flower beds and around my apple trees!

Interesting Lance. I found a 6x6 matching set in January (from last year) that was cris-crossed on top of each other. Last week I found what I believe to be a 5x5 matching set but about 1/3 mile apart. I never would have guessed though that big sheds like discussed on this forum would be found so far apart.

It also gets my attention if I find a tree broke off the main stem about 6' or higher up. My assumption is it takes a tremendous bull to have the torque to break it off that high off the ground.

I don't have to worry about where to store my elk tag this year.......it's not coming

I have hunted bull elk for over 40 years now. Made every mistake in the book..... and just when I start to pound my chest a bit (like a pro basketball player)I seem to make a new mistake and surprise.......another learning! That's what makes it so much fun and a challenge for me. Having said that, I have harvested 19 bulls, have 3 P&Y (since I gave up gun hunting in 1990), and had numerous +400 class bulls highly concerned on my archery hunts. So far they have avoided the back of my pickup to my disappointment. But a 400 bull remains one of the most important goals remaining in my life. Sharing everyone's favorite elk hunting tactic is a great read on this forum, especially right after the tags are sorted out! My favorite tactic is the "retreating bull trick". It takes the hunter and a caller (usually me) placed behind the hunter about 70 yards and directly in line with the bugling bull. First step is to "pressure" the bugling bull by getting the hunter as close as possible without the cows or circling satellite bulls noticing. Once the hunter is in place I get directly in line with the hunter and bugling bull, hopefully in thick cover about 70 yards out. I start with one assertive, but subordinate sounding bull response. Let the bull know I am disturbed but afraid to come into him since I am a smaller but just as horny bull. When he gives me the assertive "get away from my harem" response I start retreating. I will stop and rake a tree which really infuriates the bull more. Often he will charge right in (presenting a great shot for my hunter). If he is satisfied and protecting his herd, and not coming in, I will throw in some cow calls. If this doesn't work it almost always brings in a satellite bull. On a few occasions the bull has passed my hunter coming to me without being shot. I then have to cautiously reposition on the other side of the hunter. It gets pretty amusing sometimes when the bull chases me on both sides of the hunter, yet there are no arrows flung in the air? The tree raking really adds realism to the whole show if done discretely,at the correct time, and by the correct sounding stick. I've also noticed that the cow calls were the best tactics up until about 5 years ago. Now the bull calls seem to be the most productive to me. Maybe we should thank the Hoochie Mama people for that change. Seems the bulls are getting more wary of cow calls so I try to do just a squeak if necessary. Regardless, I now call significantly less each year and start with intentions of going in silent until some form of calling response is required for each specific situation. Good luck to all who were lucky enough to draw a tag this year. Our family all struck out on tags this year so I will be helping someone out to continue my September passion.....and get my annual fix!

I showed my horn to a "professional" horn hunter and asked him if he ever found that big of sheds as a matched pair? I was surprised to hear his response that once he found the match to a horn as big as mine.......but it was over a mile apart for each shed. I never would have thunk that! How far apart have you folks found matching sheds?

If I was younger and still had "my wheels" I can guarantee you quads would not affect how productive my horn hunting efforts were, as there are no roads where I used to go. Having said that, I do acknowledge it seems that since the Wallow Fire, a greater percentage of the bulls are shedding at higher elevations (where they never used to shed).......and where quads can help cover more ground efficiently per day.

Forgot to mention I hunted this wonderful bull the next two years and got within 30 yards of him on my archery hunt just before sunup the following year. Obviously I did not get him or you would have heard about it already! Not sure he is still alive now.