Alpinebullwinkle

I had a camera out in a shedding area and some scumbag broke the lock on the camera and stole the data card. Stay tuned to see the scumbag's picture posted on this and other outdoor blogs very soon!! I'm tired of the low morals of many of today's outdoor enthusiasts comparing to former years.

My best horn found is 17 pounds........a 7-pointer that I estimated with normal spread would score 400 with both horns....... which unfortunately I never found. Your horns look every bit as heavy and surprised they didn't hit the 17 pound mark.

Yes so many hunters pull off a road at a strategic spot and bugle without question it is impacting elk behaviors. Admittedly I even do this occasionally (not while hunting) but just to verify if the elk are in a certain canyon. When I get just one single and unrepeated response and then silence the message they seem to be sending me is FU I know you are another goofball hunter!!

Glad to see there is at least one person missing more cards in the deck than me with respect to elk!!

35 cameras wow!!!! I generally run 6 cameras but move them around a bit. Takes lots of time but great fun and exercise for a geezer. Last year I had 1 of 6 cameras stolen and a previous year just the data card. Just curious out of 35 cameras how many do you get stolen per year? I know that is a terrible question to ask but just curious.

The older I get the less it seems that I purposely call elk. Hasn't seemed to affect success rate though. Have noticed some significant changes in elk calling tactics/effectiveness though over the years and interested if other older hunters are experiencing the same? My first 40 years of hunting the rut elk hunts in units 27 and 1 it seemed that the cow calls were most effective in calling in bulls. I would use a diaphragm with grunt tube which worked real well. Admittedly I can't call as good as years ago due to the dental bridge I now have in front, but the cow chirp is still a valuable tool when trying to get that bull in for the final few yards and execution. I'm thinking though it may not be all me in declining cow call quality and maybe the Hoochie Mamma and extra hunting pressures verses years ago has trained the elk to avoid the cow calls moreso now. I now have significantly more success calling in bulls with a bull call whereas years ago I just used my personally made call as a locator. For some reason the 370-380 class bulls are marching right in to my home made call like never before. Our last two bulls were in the 370-380 class and didn't hesitate much coming into my bull call. I won't get into details of construction but the prototype was given to me from a guiding buddy that used it in the 1960's. I guess it is so effective because it is not intimidating like many of the commercial bull calls now days and sounds like a 5-point rag horn that is a nuisance to them. For some reason it seems the bull calls have become more effective getting bulls all the way in the last 5 years verses cow calls being more effective the previous 40 years. Anyone else experiencing this??

Yup I've encountered the same absurd behavior and often by other guides. Don't get me started on hunter ethics..........it certainly has gone way south since the "good ole days" of 20 years or so ago!

Historically speaking about 95% of the tag holders seem to be out on the first three days of the hunt and then a lot less during the first week. The second week which is always closer to the rut always has significantly fewer hunters. It will be interesting to see if that scenario changes with the archery date change for the first time this year. Also, since I am basically an Alpine resident my scouting is more focused on where the hunters are....... rather than the elk. I know where the elk are generally and where they like to take refuge when the hunting armies invade them during the season. That often dictates the areas and days we hunt different areas.

It most certainly is a marathon....... rather than a sprint....... if you plan to hold out for a quality bull. Now that I have reached "geezer status" I plan the whole 14 day hunt to alternate days/areas based on how strenuous to easy.....planning resting day (easy hunts) to recover for the next strenuous excursion. Sometimes we score on the easy days depending on where the hunters push the herds to. The best part I like about the unit is I can hunt in 3-4 different locations in one day looking for a cow in heat which increases your chances. As previously mentioned by others..... you can also get away from the hunting armies if you wish to hunt for quality...... rather than quantity or action.

They are never all picked up. Hunters in our area go home each year with nice sheds in their trucks!

That would be a very interesting KPI "key performance indicator" for everyone to compare. Horns found per mile or miles required per horn. Even better to indicate horn quality would be pounds of elk horns per mile walked. From my experience I find the big horns of the mature bulls in much different locations than the rag horns

Impressive G3. Have to shoot him if you see him!

I do not whine for myself personally as I have been blessed with probably greater than my quota of bull tags (at least 15 in 45+ years). I whine for my family that has not been as lucky as I. It is also difficult to have nice bulls in my yard on almost a daily basis......eating my flowers and grass.... and then see all the family go 6+ years without a tag! I'll be nice to some of the childish and uninformed posters, and not elaborate anymore.

What I have heard is if the U of A basketball team makes a long run at the dance in March the elk rut is late September. If U of A bombs out like this year the elk rut tends to be earlier (like U of A's exit). Honestly I have nothing of substance to offer on this debate.......and I'm not aware of anyone else that has a better read on this popular issue.

Can the current application system be enhanced? Absolutely. But it seems to me three key elements need to remain in the equation (which can be accomplished) and enough hunters need to stand up and request enhancement to the current system. The three critical elements to the draw process seem to be 1) bonus points so that each year the hunter is unsuccessful in the draw the odds of drawing the following year improve, 2) a certain element of luck (lottery type) so that each year all hunters have a "chance" to draw, even though they may have drawn successfully the previous year or years, 3) AGFD can optimize revenues off the draw to fund their activities. Every year for the last 10 years or so I have proposed "squaring the bonus points" to make them more effective and tighten up the bell curve distribution. I have had a mathematician that worked with me prove this is a legitimate enhancement opportunity. By squaring the bonus points all hunters could expect to be drawn with a few less years of waiting on the sidelines. For example the normal 6+ year wait for a preferred bull hunt could be reduced by 2 years or so less. The change basically would be reducing the luck of the draw slightly, and replacing it with more impactful bonus points. AGFD, whom I have had personal discussions with many times do not seem motivated for my squaring the bonus point change, and surprisingly have given me no explanation why. When I have shared my proposal on this forum numerous times in previous years the hunting population seems to prefer the current system and level of "draw luck" as it stands. I expect nothing will change unless enough of the hunting population expresses a desire for the current system to be enhanced.

OK here's my 2 cents for whatever it is worth. I acknowledge that a game camera can add value to hunting success and definitely does to the experience. I have run numerous cameras for 15+ years and only recall harvesting one animal due to the camera. Before the fires I had a place I had photos of numerous big Coues deer in 2008. I had an elk tag that year so I only planned on one morning prior to my elk hunt to try for one of the big Coues I had on film. Only time I was lucky hunting in my life as in only 3 hours of effort I pulled back on the biggest one I had on camera (a 130 class Coues)but he jumped before I could let my arrow go. One hour later I shot the #2 coues I was aware of. He ended up scoring 124 gross P&Y. With an elk tag in hand I never would have spent the 3 hours to go into the area in advance of my elk hunt but very glad I did. Did the camera aid me in that effort? Of course. But realize I focus more on elk hunting and do not recall any of my family or clients as a guide shooting one of the elk I had on camera. The value I see as a former guide is taking pictures of monster bulls in advance of the hunt to either entice clients, or add to their excitement in advance of their hunts. I also see trail cameras as more of a tool in the dryer hunting units but much less so in Unit #27 that is my focus and with water spread out everywhere. I've never been to a water hole that has more than one camera but that would certainly gross me out. Unfortunately, even though I have the privilege of focusing on some more remote areas than the Phoenix hunters, I have still been a victim of stolen cameras which really gets my blood pressure boiling. Hunter ethics has taken a steep dive into the sewer the last 20 or more years but that is a different subject which I have passion to address under a different forum. Congratulations to all those lucky hunters that drew tags this year. After 45+ years I really appreciate what a privilege that can be!

Just past the Apache Gold casino yesterday I stopped to inquire and it was $14 for the browns. He had a few awesome matching sheds on display from the reservation which he would not quote me a price on1

Looks like my out of state son finally drew after waiting 16 years for his next tag. Will be interesting to see how the trial schedule change works out for the archers verses early gun hunters. My "guess" is the impact will be negligible on the gun hunters and a huge positive for the archery hunters who for the first time in history should have an opportunity to hunt pretty much in the prime of the rut. I am excited for either opportunity my family has been lucky enough to draw after all these years of waiting.

Is a 8 gauge to much gun for crow? I disagree with all of yas. Now that I am a shaky old geezer I believe hand grenades should be allowable for taking elk.

I'll complain about how dry it is in the high country! We need rain or snow badly..... and soon. This 6 week or so dry spell likely will affect the horn quality this year.

Yup GG I agree and am like you.....only killed one buck in about 15 years of trail camera use that I have on camera......and none of the bulls that have been my primary target!

Maintaining numerous cameras is great exercise for this geezer.........and the reward is the surprise pictures I get to enjoy when I download after a retrieval.

Yes hunt4horns I am dealing with some of the same issues as you. All this draw dialog seems pretty trivial when you put things into perspective. All I will add to the complainers is if you have a challenge...... direct your complaint to the cook.......and not the waitress!!

......but on a few of the longer more strenuous trips I have had to leave a few horns behind in a stash. As you can guess sometimes others will find them.....and it is always the smallest horns that they leave behind for me to retrieve on a return trip!

Two horns per trip have been the limit for this geezer for many years now.