Alpinebullwinkle

I'm trying to get pictures of aliens also.........those aliens that are stealing my data cards and cameras! Great job to all on the responses.

Great responses. Thank you everybody. My camera was locked in unit #27 and stopped functioning on July 15 so I lost about 2 weeks of picture opportunity in a high bull concentration area. I still got almost 1,000 pictures of +20 different bulls, but unfortunately not the monster I was hoping for. He is there, but apparently too foxy or timid to give me a picture! Anyone else have the same challenge getting the pictures of the biggest bull you are aware of in the area? Sometimes I will get the big boy of the area, but once he is surprised by getting his picture took, he moves on. Smart bull, or just passing thru? When it is pre- August I suspect just a smart bull.

In other words.........they do not like to get caught with their pants down!!!

Bears and elk are highly insulted by the invasion of privacy we offer them!

I should have added horn hunters to the list of suspects. Maybe they should be considered the primary suspects. Just retrieved a camera in a real remote area yesterday and was shocked to have pictures of two different horn hunters with horns on their back. I am thankful all they did was throw my salt off away from the camera (for some unknown reason) and turn my camera around. Don't understand their thought process but am thankful that was all the adjustments they made to my site.

What I have noticed is the deer will dig for the salt after it has been washed into the ground whereas the elk don't seem to do that much...... which is why I prefer the blocks rather than the pellets (being that I am personally more focused on elk hunting rather than the deer hunts). But I agree you should have much less theft issues with the granules rather than the salt blocks. Funny Greyghost 85 I was thinking the same Obama analogy as you when I made the moral concern statement!

Yes unfortunately I've had 25# half blocks stolen and the small 4# blocks even. You have to wonder what the motives are in those cases and what type of people are doing that. Other hunters, guides, USFS, ranchers ???? That never happened the first 35 years of me placing salt, in some pretty remote areas I might add. I don't understand what has happened to morals about the last 5-10 years. Any guesses??

I've had my share of stolen cameras, stolen data cards, broken cameras and stolen salt licks in unit #27. Very disappointing to see how low the morals have dipped on outdoorsmen these days. I've now gone to a two-fold purpose of placing my cameras in the woods..........some cameras are for the animals.........and some cameras are for the low life thieves. Stay tuned to help me identify "potential thieves" in the future on this forum!

I also agree that it seems there are more "Calen Jenners" quacking this year for the time of year. Don't have an explanation why....... but it is possible that Bruce (Jenner) really started something!

When my youngest son was young he could make the best cow elk calls I have heard without any commercial assistance........then his voice changed when he got about 15 and he lost that talent. I agree that calling dynamics has really changed over the last 10 years or so. Surprisingly I now call more bulls in making bull sounds rather than the cow sounds that worked better until the last 5-10 years.

Be persistent trying your mouth calls. You can perfect it if you do not give up quickly. Took me two weeks of persistence to get thru many issues and finally perfect the calls. Guess I'm called a "slow study".

Very good comments. I know pictures are deceiving from some I have of our bulls but it does appear his main beams might end up shorter than normal which wouldn't surprise me with this being a "dry year" so far.

Ok thanks for your input.

Yes I have experienced that same issue a few times. Either elk or bears will take the liberty to make adjustments to cameras. I know for sure because one bull left his horn marks on the inside of my camera and I had numerous pictures of him just prior to his devious behavior! The best picture was when his whole eyeball took up the entire photo making his initial inspection I guess!!

Just curious for serious responses what people see in the rack that suggests to them this bull is nearly full grown for the year?

Hate to admit in my younger day I walked thru a fire after a week of burning and there were still pockets of flames 3' high. I viewed deer, elk and numerous bears on that crazy hike. Seems to me if the fire is a natural fire, considering intensity, no worries and it should only enhance the area that same year with normal moisture. If the fire is more of the "catastrophic hot burning" type that neutralizes the soil......... then it may take a year or two or even longer for the area to normalize.

Two years on the sunny side up and three years for both sides from my experiences

For some odd reason this season seems to be setting up for above average horn quality which is surprising to me with fairly weak spring precipitation. Last year I expected record horn quality due to the timely and significantly above average rainfall.....but never saw impressive horns comparatively speaking. Go figure....I sure can't explain it! There has to be some explanation apparently above my comprehension.

Some nice quality horns there. Great job and thanks for the share.

You are absolutely right CP. Shame on me for venting my personal frustrations on this very positive post that you started. Very nice job on your posts and underscores the fun we can have (and exercise gained) with trail cameras in the National Forests. Per your excellent guidance, I will start a separate thread to try and address the unethical behavior that some outdoorsmen are displaying in our forests.

After three data cards and two stolen cameras in Unit #27 I'm now collecting pictures of "hikers". After I collect enough pictures and satisfy myself that someone has graduated to the level of "definite suspect" you folks will get a chance on here to help me identify the alleged perpetrators. I'm sick of the low ethics that has developed in our forests lately. I am aware of one guide that is really rolling the dice!

There is a new "Horse-tel" in Alpine run by Dink Robart for those that do not have a place to temporarily take care of their horses

I have elk hunted New Mexico I think 7 times and Arizona every year for +40 years straight (either with a personal tag, helping relatives, friends, or guiding for pay). From my experiences if you want elk hunting opportunity (near your residence) you pick New Mexico, and if you are more focused on quality of horns or the hunting experience you pick Arizona. I also noticed that from my New Mexico hunting experiences the farther you get away from the Arizona border the gene pool produces less quality horns, and the New Mexico record books seem to reflect that fact. I have also noticed from elk hunting New Mexico units #15 and #23 along the Arizona border that they are definitely inferior to the adjacent hunting units of #1 and #27 in Arizona. The difference really has been surprising to me on either side of the border. I have my opinion on why but won't go into that one and start any fist fights! Best situation from my perspective would be to be an Arizona resident and buy a sizable ranch in New Mexico to be offered landowner tags from the State of Mexico. LOL

Average Joe please explain to me why putting a few trail cameras out would be unethical?? Are you guilty of tampering with some?

I'm also frustrated with all the stolen cameras and data cards that is happening to both my Alpine buddies and I in unit #27 the last few years. Fed up with the low life morals of a few outdoorsmen now days. I also have a plan to use social media to address this despicable behavior. So far, I am being cautious with the pictures I am collecting, as I would not want to falsely accuse someone. Sounds like the unethical behavior might even be worse in other hunting units from what I am reading. This will get real ugly for the thieves and should result in a loss of guiding or hunting privileges in some cases when this comes to a head!