Flatlander

I think those will do fine. Be careful where you put them, that area has a reputation for missing cams.

Is the Boyds and ADL or BDL or CDL? Which barrel contour?

Thats actually an issue they have had in Nevada as Moose from ID expand their range southward. Several have been shot just inside the border, desk its it being a crime. Some are mistaken for elk, some are just shot for novelty. But for a species which has so many other troubles in so many other areas, its a shame that poaching/novelty killing has become a barrier in places where they are doing well.

I gave them general area but I'm sure they will prod me for specific location. If given the opportunity to kill I believe I would have to decline. I certainly would love to harvest a mtn goat and do apply every year in Utah. However Killing this goat wouldn't feel right to me. I agree. Not sure why folks want to shoot this critter. I think its awesome that they are out expanding their range. But I bet whatever population base it came from could use another animal to help keep building the herd. As fragile as goat herds are, one animal isnt insignificant.

Well the Kaibab is 4 hrs from Crown King so guess I wont be surprised the next time I see a buffalo wander through there. 😀

Man, I still remember this thread. Good for you on a second tag. Good luck and keep us posted!

So recently Im another thread a debate arose concerning using non-lead ammunition North of the Colorado River. I was susrprised that some folks had pretty strong opinions against this. For me I have always just accepted AZGFDs request for hunters not to use lead as legitimate. Based on their opinions I dug in and pretty quickly found some scientific studies that provided direct connections between hunting ammunition and condor mortality. (Patterns of Mortality, 2012). That was enough for me. But I was surprised at how divisive this topic was. I had no idea of the ban in California or the issues that some of these studies had caused there. Since that discussion I came across a podcast by Randy Newberg that addressed the topic. He spoke with two biologists who actually carried out mortality studies on condors on the strip and Kaibab. Both of these guys are hunters and had first hand knowledge of hunting practices. This was a very insightful, science based discussion on the topic. I had no idea the issues that can arise for raptors from lead in carcasses and specifically what that means for condors. I hope others had a chance to listen. I really appreciate the material many of these podcasts like Rinella and Newberg bring to the forefront for dumb old guys like me to use to get educated.

Pretty sure that was Jimmy Mullins who posted that up.

That thing is awesome. Did you post the story on here?

These are population management hunts. Basically you turn in an app checking which species you are interested in hunting and AZGFD keeps it on file. When they need some critters killed they pull names from the file randomly and call the applicants until they get enough people to say yes.

Dam. And in all that mess he managed to cut himself and not the bear.

4B 4Ever

They have both been involved with the critter groups for many many years. And I think they were both involved with the opposition to the HSUS cat ballot initiative.

I have a 7-08 Marlin X7 Youth you can borrow. No scope on it at the moment.

How many scopes you going to buy today?

Its not like the guy said he has never shot a bow before. He asked for some one to tel him what he is doing right and wrong. Seems like a really good thing for someone new to the sport. Probably. A good thing for those of us who have been doing it a long time who really have engrained our habits. Good luck. Shoot some blind bales from time to time.

Thats straight serial killer stuff right there.

No need to get ruffled, I started this thread to allow discussion on the topic. It was surprising to me how polarizing this issue was. I know before you mentioned that there was conflicting data on this? You mentioned some statistics there, can you share your sources? I really do want to understand the topic better and do my part as a hunter to conserve our ecosystems. It seems that sources like huntfortruth.org think that this research was put forth by econazis intent on banning hunting. Thats why the podcast with Newberg was so enlightening. I would have otherwise never guessed that the Peregrine Fund was established by hunters and was a partner organization to AES, MDF, etc. I have learned a lot in the past few weeks and I am happy to say that endeavor started here. We can use CWT to facilitate conservation if we can just stop griping with each other. So no more hunting or shooting lead .22 or shot shells for you? I dont know about no more, but I certainly will change some habits. With our first rifle Kaibab hunt in the family coming up this year I will definitely either shoot copper or commit to taking the carcass out whole. Its a doe hunt, so pack out isnt as big of a concern. When I shoot gophers in MT I wont leave them out on logs for birds to eat. In all of this I havent read or heard anything about target shooting, so probably wont change that. As far as other big game, I dont do a lot of rifle hunting but when I do, I will consider alternatives to lead.

Wasnt even a glimmer in my Daddys Eye. Old timers.

Or do we just now know about it?

See my comments in quotes above. ☝️☝️☝️ Anyway, the point of this thread wasnt to pick a fight, it was to bring awareness to something that was recently brought to my attention. I appreciate the comments that others have contributed. I hope Amanda will see this and chime in, as well as some of the other biologists who hang out here. I think Amandas avian work would bring some great insight.

I don't know what your son's limitations are following his surgery, but when I have taken kids on the Kaibab doe hunt I have just loaded up the 62gr TTSX for them in 223. It gets the job done, especially when you shoot them in the high shoulder. My tiny little daughter didn't have any problem with it last year, and it was only weeks away from us finding out that the nausea she was feeling was actually a grapefruit sized mass of cancer growing in her gut. Man I would not have guessed that a 62 gr bullet would perform that well on a high shoulder shot. Good to know. Your daughters story was amazing, and made me 100% grateful for our experience. A great reminder that it could be so much worse. Way to keep your head up and the kiddo going.

No need to get ruffled, I started this thread to allow discussion on the topic. It was surprising to me how polarizing this issue was. I know before you mentioned that there was conflicting data on this? You mentioned some statistics there, can you share your sources? I really do want to understand the topic better and do my part as a hunter to conserve our ecosystems. It seems that sources like huntfortruth.org think that this research was put forth by econazis intent on banning hunting. Thats why the podcast with Newberg was so enlightening. I would have otherwise never guessed that the Peregrine Fund was established by hunters and was a partner organization to AES, MDF, etc. I have learned a lot in the past few weeks and I am happy to say that endeavor started here. We can use CWT to facilitate conservation if we can just stop griping with each other.

Coues do not migrate. Most live 75% of their life within a half mile area. Coues can be found from 2500 to the pine covered mountain tops. Mature bucks wont spend significant amounts of time with does until the rut starts to kick in. Usually the heat of the rut is mid January for that area. There might be some pre-rut and mild rutting as early as the last 10 days of Dec if conditions are right. Methods are glass until you find them. Hike until they are in range and then shoot until they drop.

Gaiters and rain gear