KGAINES

Bones, the problem is the one hour drive part, bowhuntinmaniac did give you a couple of spots to hunt, the white tanks have some very good mule deer, but they are tough to find. Good Luck

I heard today that the minutemen were having a clean-up on May 20th west of Lake Pleasant, is this the same area, is this a coordinated effort between several groups.

Ok now you went and gave him a honey hole and he was just looking for a general area.

The estrellas, or the white tanks, we need to know what direction his house is facing before giving out the specifics, I don't know about coues there though

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060512/ts_nm/...HNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Desertbull, the tequila might lure him, but you have to add a car, a bridge, and a girl, dead or alive he don't care.

From the photos it just looks like it has two black eyes, he should have been hunting whatever punched it. On a serious note, can you imagine shooting it and then you got to prove that you thought it was just a polar bear, not a rare one of a kind polargrizz, hopefully he is clear of any trouble in this deal, cool pics.

Great finds, Good Luck and God bless you guys on your future endeavors.

Is the L.E.D. legal in AZ, the only reason I ask is I heard a game warden saying that it could be considered taking game with the aid of artificial light, that was quite a few years ago though. Great looking sight though.

Thanks for all the info Dave and Amanda.

I do have a couple of questions, if somebody has the answers I would appreciate it. Is this solely an Arizona organization, are there any out of state or political influences. Amanda I see a forthcoming events calander on the bottom of the web page, is there any way to keep us informed about future meetings that way, or if anyone knows of an upcoming meeting do we just start a new topic so that everyone here knows about it beforehand. Good Luck All and God Bless

Since we are asking this sort of question, can anyone apply for the fall javelina tags if they didn't tag out this spring, but had drawn a tag, maybe they should have thought more about this. Maybe they don't care who applies for the fall javelina tags because the more that apply the more application fees they get to keep. I might have to call tomorrow.

I would agree with Muley62 on this one, I would also call azgfd again and get an answer, then get the name of the person that gives it, there is the bonus point only hunt number and that would probably be the best way to go. Good Luck on finding out.

It's funny how many people will show up to the banquets, ADA, RMEF, AES, we donate money, we buy raffle tickets, and support these large groups. That is not a bad thing, it is a very good thing, but when two or three members of each of these groups show up for the meetings, they are written off as represinting themselves and using the group to bolster their opinion, if a few hundred from each of these groups showed up it would be a lot harder to write off. If I can go to a banquet, I can go to a meeting, all I have to donate is time and all I can win is my hunting future, I think it is worth it.

Congrats to your sister, Great job.

He was one of the two I figured, the other I figured was going to vote against anything that Mr. Melton supported since he was reprimanded in front of everybody.

It is pretty easy to make a survey that will show what you want, when it is given to a random audience that has one unique quality, all the people polled are hunters. 1. Would you like to hunt every year. Yes or No 2. Would you give up part of your hunt so kids can hunt. Yes or No 3. Would you hunt javelina in the fall. Yes or No 4. Are oct. hunts bad. Yes or No 5. Would you like longer hunts. Yes or No These questions don't give any alternatives, they are simple questions that most hunters would answer a certain way if you didn't know what the results of these findings would be. I am not saying this is what the azgfd did, but it is definately not what the ADA did, they gave several answers for each question, and they allowed for mule deer and whitetail hunters, archery and rifle hunters, plus allowed the azgfd to sample the same people that took the first survey.

Hey 25-06, the only thing I did in regards to the survey was be one of 6500 that didn't matter. The ADA did all that work in a very short amount of time while working with the azgfd to keep the questions helpful to them as possible. Dave, which commissioner was voting with the animal defense league of az, I am sorry I wasn't there for that, I am planning on being there from beginning to end next time. It would be real easy for them to shorten the lion season and not lose money, and I am sure that is a big factor, we would all still buy lion tags if it overlaps our deer, elk, or javelina seasons, if it didn't a lot of their 100,000 hunters wouldn't buy tags just to go lion hunting, so the lapse in the lion season would be in the summer when the majority of their 100,000 aren't hunting anything.

I think apathy is a problem, up until a few years ago I didn't know it was such a political process, I didn't know how only a few people attended these meetings to keep what we have or fight for more or less. I think that is more ignorance than apathy, all I thought was there were game biologists that sent in what should be done and that was how hunts were set up, and tags were distributed. I was completely wrong, and I am sure there is a large percent of people that have no idea what the process is and they need to be educated. If there are 80,000 people that put in for deer last year, if we had 1% show up to a meeting and speak we would probably get what we asked for, one lousy percent in person would work better than ten percent writing in. The azgfd and the commission would probably feel really insecure staring into the faces of 800 people and telling them they don't matter, they can look at twenty people and care less that they represent 6,500. I am not saying we should get everything we ask for, if they have scientific data that says something should be a certain way than I would probably agree with them, but they are making changes based on what they feel we want, I would like to have a say in what I want, and every one of you should too. If fifty thousand people can show up for a football game, concert, or a nascar race we should be able to muster 800 to a 1000 for a meeting, and the lasting effects would benifit us way more than a sporting event.

If they do go to a draw for bow, they will lose a lot of money, so unless they can figure out how to recoup the losses it won't happen soon.

Lee I think the muley hunt is in nov. in 21, I hope, and the fall javelina tags are supposed to be down south. As far as drunks and endless atv traffic in oct., if the game and fish had been trying to get more people hunting all they had to do was offer a twelve pack to whoever was drawn for the southern units in oct. and there would never have been any leftover tags or 100% odds.

Bill I wasn't trying to argue with you, I do agree about it not being random, somebody else that was there can correct me if I am wrong about the 44,000 number, but the number of applicants that the azgfd kept alluding to was 100,000, and a few didn't think 6,500 of 100,000 was enough. I do think a random 1,000 hunters surveyed by a un-biased group would be valid.

All they gained by moving the tags from dec. to oct. in unit 21 is 100 tags, 350 in oct. and 50 in dec., I will ask again where is the quality in that, 300 tags in a very large unit during the rut, and with the temperatures way down. I don't think 350 will be overcrowded and it won't be a bad hunt, but if I had my choice it would be 300 in dec., that is my opinion, but I am not a commissioner so my opinion don't matter. Applying for and oct. hunt as a first or srcond choice for some people will now be a necessity since the odds for the dec. hunt will be minimal. As I have said before if we don't like it we need to get together next year to change it, not a survey, e-mails, or letters, we need people there in numbers, then we have a shot to get what we want, otherwise we have to accept what we are given.

Bill you are right about it not being random and scientific, but anyone could take it and the azgfd sent out 44,000 e-mails to deer hunters from last year to take the survey, they were probably randomly selected and sent out, but nobody cared to take it. It was also posted on the azgfd home page, and anyone visiting the site could take it there too. I really don't think the ADA and the group that put the survey out had enough time to do it like they would have liked so they did the next best thing in the time they had.

I think the oct. hunt in the central units is going to be a lot of peoples first and second choices, going from 300 to 50 will diminish the odds of getting drawn considerably for the late hunts. I will probably have one of the oct. hunts as my first or second choice though. Good Luck to all who apply