KGAINES

That is what I think is very funny, if you put in for oct. coues down south you are almost assured a tag. So the azgfd want to make more of those tags, well if I can put one of them tags as my fifth choice and get drawn than they can make as many of those as they want and then I can put my first two for sure dec, hunts and my third and fourth can be nov. tags and my fifth choice can still be that oct. coues tag and I can get it for sure, heck if they keep making more oct. tags I can just wait and get it over the counter. My point in all that is that the people that are complaining about not getting drawn are not putting in for those hunts, they are putting in for the harder to get hunts on all five choices, and they don't understand the way the draw works, they think when their app is pulled it goes through all the choices one through five and gives them a tag or rejects them, no matter what the system is there is going to be whiners. They could sell deer tags over the counter for rifle hunts and there would be people out there whining about something. The azgfd has done a pretty good job over the years for the most part and they don't need to start copying other states that should be copying us, money shouldn't be the number one factor for how and when hunts are structured. Last and not least is that most companies listen to their best customers while trying to get new customers, they don't kick the regulars off to the side and allow the walk ins to dictate how the company does business. I think everyone should have a chance and at this point everyone does, and it is a good chance if you don't mind hunting the oct. hunts. One last thing to remember is that archery deer hunters are required to call in and notify azgfd if you are succesful, if we don't they will start to change the archery hunts, and I doubt anyone would want that. Good Luck to all and God Bless

Have a great day, good luck on your hunts and God Bless.

http://news.aol.com/entertainment/music/ar...S00010000000001 Why would someone shoot a tame bear, and why would they video tape it, no matter what hunters get blamed and are made to look stupid.

He was watching that other one scratch himself and ran off yelling owwwwwwww.

I have heard march too, but I figured that would be when you applied, I know it will be paper apps only for this first go around at least.

The bear probably liked rock and roll and wasn't a fan anyways.

Bill I have a problem with the way the AZGFD does their survey and the results dictate hunting changes for good or bad and they consider it to be the best way to determine what hunters want, now the ADA does a survey and it is not scientific and does not give a true reading of what hunters want ( according to them ). What that tells me is the powers that don't really care what we think, if it is a vote for them good if it is a vote against them we don't know what we are doing or what we really want or we are just wrong. Bill they could put every hunter in the state out in the field and the good hunters are still going to take the better deer, they might be in a traffic jam out to the point where they start walking because of all the road hunters, but once the walking starts it would thin out quick. That is not to mention the game law violations that would occur and would not be able to be enforced. As I stated earlier there were approx. 130,000 individuals that put in and there were approx. 250,000 applications, how many do we allow to hunt, if we gave all 130,000 people tags does that mean there will be more hunters next year, or will the number be close to the same except now you will have people whining about it being crowded ( probably the weekend warrior type that would be in the traffic or wouldn't walk to far ), you would have a reduced deer herd because even if success numbers were down there would still be more deer taken due to the sheer numbers, and I would think that we would lose access to some land because private land owners that allow hunting or access would have a lot more trouble with the increase of people on their property or going through their property. I don't mind changes and I think that compared to most states AZ does a great job, but don't change just because other states do something, and listen to your best customers, the people that apply and hunt every year, and those are also usually the ones who are taking kids hunting and introducing new people to the sport anyway. This is just my opinion, sorry for the drawn out post.

Great Pics, looks like you had a great time.

Thanks I figure you guys will do what you can when you get the chance, thanks for keeping up a great site.

White-tailed Deer Overview: Whitetail hunting is expected to be average in the 2005 fall hunts. Permits were decreased this year by 75 due to the low buck to doe and fawn to doe ratio. The unit contains isolated populations of whitetail within certain mountain ranges. Areas that should be productive are the Peloncillo Mtns, south side of the Dos Cabezas, and the Pedregosa Mountains. Like any hunt, scouting before the season starts should be included in your plans. Plan on beginning your hunt early in the morning and hunt until late evening. Good optics and patience while hunting this species of deer is a must. Finding a good vantage point and glass areas for long periods of time. Areas: To Access the Peloncillo Mountains take I-10 to Hwy 191 south to Douglas, follow 15th street which becomes the Geronimo Trail. Take Geronimo Trail road into the mountain range located on the Arizona/New Mexico border. Areas include Cottonwood Canyon, Estes, Miller Springs and Outlaw Mountain. Because of the proximity to New Mexico, be sure of location to the state line. One major change in access is Skeleton, South Fork of Skeleton, Starvation, and the Old Fairchild Ranch can no longer be accessed. The Pedregosa Mountains are located northeast of Douglas. To get there, take Hwy 80 from Douglas to Boss-Husted Shipping Corral road. Areas include Walnut Canyon, Upper Indian Creek and Halfmoon area. To access the Dos Cabezas Mountains take Hwy 186 from Willcox to Dos Cabezas. Only 2 roads access this area and access is limited. Pre-season scouting is very important to learn these roads and obtain permission where needed. Obtain US Forest Service maps and topographical maps to familiarize yourself with the areas. Learning the terrain and its characteristics will greatly improve your success. http://www.azgfd.com/h_f/hunting_units_30a.shtml

Great buck, congrats to you and your son.

Doug@cameraland helped me out and got me a great deal also.

Dave I was going to suggest the same thing, I didn't have a copy of the survey yet. As I have stated earlier they gave this survey to all applicants who included their e-mail, that is not random therefore it is not scientific and I plan on stating that fact to the commissioners at the next meeting, if the AZGFD can do it and use the results to change hunts and hunt structures, I ask why is there survey credible and valid when the ADA survey was not scientific and worthless. Arizona Game and Fish will be the downfall of hunting in Arizona!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! muleybull the only question I ask you is are you going to set back and let them do it or are you going to at least be heard, I had to ask myself that same question last year and I decided I was going to do what I could to prevent it, I may or may not have any impact on what they decide, but I am not going to just let them do it. I can no longer claim ignorance and I will no longer ignore it.

I asked the question yesterday about getting rid of the online apps, and I was told that they are here to stay, but they want them done right, that is why the company this year is no longer going to do it. I also asked why then couldn't they charge up front when you apply, AZ state law will not allow that. I guess there was something like 250000 applications in the big game draw from 130000 thousand individuals, 250000 X 5.00, plus 130000 X license fees, tells me online is here to stay and after they get the bugs sorted out over the next year it is going to be back for good. These were approximate numbers I heard. The survey also asks if you are affiliated with any type of hunting groups, it was mentioned that that might show what kind of representation each group has with the public. I am guessing when a group is for or against something ( the xyz group is in support of a new commissioner ) they will determine how much clout each group really has and determine their course of action accordingly.

One thing we might want to remember, if we don't like this survey or any other things that are pushed our way the only retaliation we really have is to go to a commission meeting and tell them how we feel. I personally plan on going to the next meeting and explain to the commissioners that these questions are leading you to an answer they want, one way or another, also did you notice that when you picked other you could not put an answer in that was more than a few words. I was also told that there will be phone surveys as well with the same questions, and all these results will be used by the azgfd for future hunting structures. I also heard that the the people that did the draw this year messed up bad enough to get fired, azgfd was not happy with the way they handled the draw and that is why there will be paper apps for the spring and I believe both early and late fall draw next year, and it will continue that way until they get a new group to do it.

the survey was sent to all applicants who included their email with their app. online. on a side note, they are going back to paper apps at least through next year. Well said couesdiehard.

Glad you made it back, I hope you had a great time.

I think it does draw people to the banquets, just think if the azgfd wanted to they could put these tags on ebay and the money would still be there. I think the azgfd will listen to these groups about projects and allow their input into how it is spent also, that doesn't mean they will listen, I also think that the tags and the money are species specific ( the mule deer tags help mule deer habitat ), I know other species benifit too, but that is the purpose behind it. Someone who knows more than me can probably explain how it really works, it seems to me that I read somewhere how I explained it above, I hope I am not completely off base. Lark I am like you on this one I kind of wish it was raffle only, but if I had the money I would be right down there trying to buy any tag I could, so I can't begrudge the person that buys it. I really hope that they don't sell these tags to tv shows, a person oh well, but I don't want the tag being bought by primos or some other group just for a show, to me that would be wrong and I seriously doubt they would also donate all proceeds made from the show to the azgfd, they would probably make enough to pay the cost of the tag and I don't think I like that idea.

http://www.magnumresearch.com/Expand.asp?P...ctCode=BFR45-70 Now if you can only get them to give you one of these to try out. I would think from a treestand at 20 to 30 yards a 357 would be ok, further out or bad shot placement is where you would have problems, just my opinion.

Very cool, everyone looks happy for sure. Congrats on the new pup Stan

Bowhunter12 First off you have to keep practicing, and don't shoot at a deer at a distance you haven't practiced and are hitting the kill zone consistantly, and always remember that a deer might not stand perfectly still like a target. There are several people on here that will get you on the right track to longer range shooting, but shooting and hunting are two different sports. Keep practicing and get comfortable with distances beyond 40 yards, without confidence I wouldn't think about shooting, Good Luck and God Bless.

http://www.weather.com/weather/monthly/853...pnav_undeclared just type in your city or zip and hit month and it will show totals for a certain area, look at the bottom and it will tell you where the reading was taken. I am sure someone has a better website, but this is it from me.

Casey shoots alot better at things with meat tearing teeth, Good Luck Casey and Daniel. Very cool pics JACK, are you going to have the badger mounted.

Good job BASS.

Just thinking out loud here, wouldn't the does in the area also be carrying the same genetic make up and be able to pass it on to their sons ? Those are some nice bucks.