KGAINES

Lark = Roger Clemens liar = baseball player Funny thing was the senators who were grilling him were democrats. Are these the same democrats that try to legalize dope, you can't do drugs and play baseball and make millions of dollars, but you can sit at home and do drugs and we will pay you welfare. Don't get me wrong what Clemens and a whole bunch of others did was wrong. As far as the questions I hunt because it is something I like to do, I will share information as long as the people I share it with are not idiots. You send the beer drinking road hunter up the roughest road you know of.

At this time we still haven't seen anything that says this is going to happen, all we have is a rumor. I personally and it looks like many of us on here believe this rumor, but that doesn't mean it's true. It could also be the AZGFD throwing the rumor out there to get a response, they could be looking for positive or negative feedback, that way when they say that rumor is totally unfounded and we never planned this they look good, or they can say that we have had a lot of public input requesting the dept. to do something about this problem, they could use it any way they want.

"Me thinks part of the problem is an inability to police our own ranks when it comes to questionable issues, and the mentality that every hunter should march along in lockstep is the wrong road to take. I will NEVER support something that *I* believe is wrong regardless if it is legal or not. To do otherwise would be a compromise and betrayal of my own ethics." I will agree that you shouldn't betray your own ethics, we all have differing views of how to hunt, but we shouldn't try to force our views on everyone else. I don't use salt or bait, and I don't care if someone else does, if I beieve something is flat out wrong I would say it. Is this conversation only getting the grief it is getting because we are in AZ, how would this post look in other states and where would the support be. As I said everyone hunts their own way and if they are happy doing it then so be it, as long as it is legal.

That's another thing, AZGFD has said that the Coues deer are doing well across the state, it's not like they noticed the numbers dropping lately.

Adding more opportunity for the early hunt to keep total harvest the same: Dec. hunt -- 50 permits, 40% success -- 20 deer Oct. hunt -- 1700 permits, 15% success -- 255 deer Total harvest -- 275 deer Any questions??? -TONY How many hunters does that scenario have calling the AZGFD and complaining about overcrowding, no place to camp, hunters everywhere, they messed up my stalks. There is good and bad with every scenario, but the azgfd loves the one above.

What is the difference in shooting a deer over a pile of corn, or shooting one at 800 yds, nothing in both cases it is legal in AZ and it is fine with me, if you practice enough to be able to make that shot good, if you are able to get deer to come to a pile of corn good, to each his own and hunt how you want, if the way you hunt makes you happy then do it, as long as its legal. It probably won't matter much, they will take this away and then archery will be turned into draw only, so that they can keep the success ratio low and have more OPPORTUNITY. What a freaking joke!

You are exactly right, if we allow this to happen what's next, and the azgfd is always going to say it will never come to that, that is until it comes to that.

I think peta and the anti's have very little to do with this issue now, we are up against ourselves and that is far worse than fighting the anti's. Don't get me wrong here if they see an opportunity and a weak link they will pile on. There should be no problems discussing these or any other legal tactics for taking a legal animal on this or any other site, but we see infighting all the time on a lot of issues and one group always says they're right and that is the way it needs to be, when the truth is everybody hunts differently. The word ethics comes up all the time now, laws be damned, someone will say somethings unethical and then we start all over again. We have rifle hunters vs archery hunters, stand hunters vs spot and stalk hunters, we have hunters that sit water vs hunters that sit salt, we have hunters that spend tons of time and money scouting vs we have hunters that spend tons of time and money setting up trail cams; the last time I checked if everyone out there is hunting and having fun who cares how they do it as long as they are doing it legally. Hunt and have fun.

Stan that is kind of how I remember it too. All I know is that we rarely get back what they take.

We usually have someone from the AZGFD at the ADA meetings, I will definately ask about this. As always anyone is welcome to attend the meetings. This sure isn't on the home page of the AZGFD is it.

I guess we better be at the commission meeting when they vote on this.

http://www.azgfd.gov/artman/publish/article_729.shtml This is the write up on the new Commissioner, everything I have heard about this guy is great for us hunters.

April 18-19 Phoenix (hunt orders) This one is where the hunt dates and seasons are set, someone might be able to correct me if this one is the most important or not. I can't remember if we are in the second year of the two year plan either, and that might make another meeting more important than this one. There are quite a few on here that know way more about this than I do, maybe they can give some input.

There is a way to change that. Maybe post dates/locations for these meetings. I for one would more than willing to attend and give my 2 cents. http://www.gf.state.az.us/inside_azgfd/mee..._schedule.shtml 2008 Dates Location January 18 Phoenix - Commission Meeting January 19 Phoenix - Meet the Commission February 5 Phoenix, Legislative Day February 8-9 Yuma March 7-8 Tucson April 18-19 Phoenix (hunt orders) May 16-17 Prescott June 27-28 Phoenix (budget) August 8-9 Flagstaff September 5-6 Pinetop October 10-11 Phoenix (fish orders) December 5-6 Casa Grande January/February 2009 DATE OPEN/ Phoenix-Legislator Day January 16, 2009 Phoenix - Commission Meeting January 17, 2009 Phoenix - Meet the Commission

Making salt illegal was mentioned as a way to lower hunter success, especially Coues deer hunters. This has been discussed quite a bit on this forum and I bet there is a ton of great information available if you search it out. Like I said I would fight losing this tactic for hunting, but there are probably a lot of hunters that would be glad to see it go because it isn't how they hunt, we have enough division amongst ourselves for this to be a problem without any help from the outside, and as much as we say hunters need to stick together we don't, but we better start. If we were all together on this and there were at least hundreds of us that would show up at the commission meetings we wouldn't have to worry about any of this, but when less than twenty show up and there are almost as many anti's there spouting their rhetoric.

With the talk of making salt and bait illegal for deer and or any species it can be in the best interest of those that are interested to doing that to maybe talk with people in a non public type forum. I can see both sides, and even though I don't use salt I would fight game and fish on this to the end, but then again if there are onlt a few hunters at the commission meetings it wouldn't matter they would do what they wanted anyway.

Are you kidding me that would be great, then you could buy all kinds of alligator skin made products from all the border towns. That would be another +

Lark I knew you would help me out.

Come on I know its only about a ten hour drive, you should have hand delivered it just to be sure.

Lark don't look, start calling, maybe twice a day, and ask to speak with someone, don't just listen to the message, let them know who you are too so that they will definitely hurry the process along.

My brother shot his last year with my 45-70 shooting the 325 grain leverevolution bullets, the deer took a few steps before dropping. To each his own on this one there are people that will swear that the 22-250 is great for coues and others that will say the 30 calibers are the best, Lark will defend the .270 to the bitter end and rightly so. To answer your question though my guess is that the 30 caliber is most common because there are so many varieties of that caliber.

Does this group want the world to rely solely on vegetables, they dang near oppose everything to eat. They run those commercials now that make themm sound like they are just out there to prevent animal abuse, but these people are freaks. http://news.aol.com/story/_a/peta-opposes-...S00010000000001 The poll pretty much shows that only a few buy into their crap.

Q: A blonde is walking down the street with a pig under her arm. She passes a person who asks "Where did you get that?" A: The pig says, "I won her in a raffle!" Q: What do you call a smart blond? A: A golden retriever. Q: Did you hear about the blonde coyote? A: Got stuck in a trap, chewed off three legs and was still stuck. You did notice the one behind the sign, How long did it take them to talk her into that.

Sounds like you were lucky in the sense tat you didn't get attacked or killed, and unlucky that it had to ruin your hunt and your sense of well being while out there. God Bless and take care.

When I first seen the pics of the rocks and with Jim posting I thought snake first.