Tines

I debated on posting this. I rarely bag on the AZGFD (on a public forum, anyway ) but this one really hit a nerve. My nephew drew an archery bull tag this year. It's his first. The kid loves to hunt. He also loves football. He's a senior and plays for his varsity high school football team. Pretty talented kid all-around. A couple of weeks ago he broke/dislocated his wrist during their game. They put it back in place and realized a little bit later that he needed to be in a hard cast, not the soft one he was in. Go figure, his new hard cast goes up to his bicep and drawing his bow is all but impossible. My brother contacted the game and fish trying to see if there was anything that could be done to salvage his hunt. Not the outcome they were hoping for. Because it's not a "permanent disability", he won't qualify for a crossbow permit. This got me thinking. How long is "permanent" and should each case be evaluated differently? To have a blanket policy of all "permanent" disabilities being the same is rather short-sighted, IMO. I remember the moment my wife and I watched Oscar Pistorius from South Africa run during the 2012 Olympics. Amazing!! A double amputee that became "disabled" at such a very young age. Yet he's far from disabled. Modern technology provided him an opportunity (key word) to not only walk, but run. And run he did!!! Did he have an extra advantage over the other runners with his bionic legs? It was determined no. And I think anyone who watched would clearly agree. Oscar didn't strike me as someone who was looking for an advantage over his peers, just an opportunity to compete. He had a great attitude towards everything. The Olympic panel took the time necessary to do the right thing and recognized the reprecussions of NOT considering Oscars case. We're all glad they did. Now, would Oscar qualify for a CHAMP permit in AZ? He would. Yet Oscar is in better shape and runs faster than more than 6 billion other human beings! Does anyone else find this ridiculous?? I think it's time the department thinks about the ramifications of some of their policies. Is it too much to ask for a case by case evaluation? Will issuing a crossbow permit to a 17yr old boy who's unable to draw his bow for the time frame of his hunt create an unfair advantage over those who can? Maybe I'm naive but I'll bet every hunter would say "give the kid a dang crossbow permit!!" AZGFD, you have an opportunity to think. Do it. Think about the definition of a "disability", what's really an advantage, and what's really not. This is a 17yr old boy asking for an opportunity to still shoot any old bull elk with an arrow, not a mzldr or a rifle. He just needs a little help with drawing and propelling that arrow. G and F, I think you know exactly what the right thing is to do.....

Brian, Thanks for your response. I'll make sure to do this. It's too late to help him now but hopefully this can help someone in the furture.

Another vote for Rimrock Outfitters....

Congrats on the great bucks. Just a heads up, on those first few pics, probably not the best places to take a field photo if you want to keep those areas somewhat quiet.

Very well done! What camera are you using??

I'd say his testicles make him look like a tom. ; )

He's a mini-GIANT!! All those points add up real fast! If you do decide to pass him up......you're crazy.

Very cool. Congrats!

WAY cool buck! Congrats!

Brian, Interesting twist, for sure. I don't know if I'd feel comfortable purposely pushing a bull at night but I've definitely seen it happen with other animals. I've seen it happen with antelope (because you can sometimes watch them go for miles) and I personally chased a javelina down that I put a poor shot on. Very little blood (if any) and the rain was coming. I could keep the pig in my sight while jogging behind him. I'm sure I looked like a total rookie but oh well. 2.5 miles later I finally put another arrow through him. In THAT situation it worked. And maybe in yours it would have also. I think we also fail to recognize how much some of these meat shots bleed. Some bleed profusely. I hate saying it but I catch myself saying during a tracking job sometimes, "he's GOT to die soon. There's too much blood already for him NOT to die soon." But these elk are so big and require so much blood loss that it can be a little deceiving.

Should be real cheap on water and electric.....

It's simple: You can draw ONE tag. Then, if you'd like, pick up an additional OTC tag as long as it's a different hunt # as the permit you DREW. Hunt dates won't matter, just hunt # must be different.

Seems that even catching one on camera isn't enough lately. You almost have to catch them in person. Sorry about your camera and hope you catch the thief.

Please let me know if this is still available. I'm interested! Thanks, Jake.

Slayer, That was crazy, huh?? I've seen a lot of animals get hit and that one is by far the most dramatic. I almost questioned where he was hit as I thought I saw a good shoulder shot even though he didn't "act like it". Glad you liked it. There's plenty more to come.

Lance, That was in reference to the original poster you quoted, not you. I "quoted" the wrong post. But I think everyone gets the idea.

This is already happening... Nobody trusts G&F or any other federal agency... Do a little research and find out what happened to the last guy who provided G & F with jaguar pics. And they wonder why some don't want to give out pics anymore, let alone location?? Pure silliness.

Looks like some Magee Ranch bucks

He scored 107". Tell your dad hello!

Anyone have experience with the 225gr Accubonds? I shoot the 110's out of my 25-06 and I love the results. Hoping the .338 will have similar. Wondering what (if any) loads with this bullet anyone has played around with. Thanks!!

Tyler, No, this is for elk. But I have taken a few Coues with the .338. But It generally wants to just poke a couple of holes in them and not deliver much energy (unless you hit shoulders or something). That's my experience, anyway. Works wonders on elk though!!

I'm all for sound game management based on scientific data. But lately it seems that ulterior motives are the driving force in rule making (i.e. money, success rates, "more opportunity"). How's this for sound game management: "Boy, we sure saw a lot of deer in 'unit X' when we flew over this year. Let's increase the permits by 20%." We must consider unintended consequences, IMO. And I think that's been forgotten in our own slogan of "managing today for wildlife tomorrow".

Jim shared some really good info and I hope most pay attention to it. Not to "hi-jack" Jims answer but I'll share my .02. Sometimes what appears to be a "solid hit" might end up with a dead bull 2 miles later (and that's if you're lucky). The important thing is to be honest with yourself in the shot, angle and the signs that are present following. I've seen a few shots similar to yours where very little blood was evident and luckily had the same outcome as you. Try tracking a bull not bleeding much in cinders. SUCKS! Every scenario is different but this is what I've seen. The slowest death is generally going to be a gut shot. They'll become toxic before they die from anything else so it's an indicator that if they're not pushed by you, other hunters, or other predators, they usually won't go more than a couple hundred yards. That's also not suggesting you'll find them DRT either. It does, however, increase your odds in finding him if he had nothing but the clock working against him. And not every gut shot is the same either. Some need much more time than others. More than we want to give, sometimes. This reminds me of a bull we hit far back one evening and backed out until the next morning. About 730am we bumped him not 150yds from where he was hit. We never found him again. Another hunter sitting in a blind watched this bull slowly and painfully walk into a waterhole a couple of evenings later and confirmed where he was hit. We continued to look for that bull even after the hunter went home and never found him. More than likely the bull didn't survive given his poor condition and where he was hit. On a brighter note, most bulls found the next day that I've taken part in have been spared. Luckily I haven't had one "stolen" and I hope that never changes either. I think sometimes we get tunnel vision when things aren't "typical" in a tracking job. Time can be your enemy but it can also be the only thing working in your favor. These are big animals that a lot of times need "big time". The "crash", as Jim explained, is a wonderful sound. That's about as ideal as you can get. But focus more on what signs and sounds are present before and while tracking is taking place, NOT that the shot "looked perfect" so it should have the desired results.

Lance, What force can I use to arrest someone? This is a serious question. If someone yelled at me saying "Citizens arrest, STOP!!" I'd probably laugh. But if he pulled a gun on me and said the same thing, I'd probably listen....

Thanks for this, Lance. I now have a goal of arresting someone before I die..