Tines

Awesome! But that's not an elk, that's a stag! Haha! Good luck with everything. You should do great with 2 weeks in 5BN

I like being generous... : )

Geez, I need to hunt with you guys. Seems like 350+ bulls are pretty common no matter where you go.. ; ) First of all, you've got two full weeks to hunt and that's the best thing you've got going for you. You talked about hunting in other states so I'd imagine you have an understanding of all of the variables that come with archery elk hunting in the rut. But in a nut-shell, you just can't predict what's "doable" and what's not. Several have mentioned things that will increase your odds so by all means, stick with those. I do have a question for you. Do you know what a 350"+ bull looks like on the hoof? I don't mean to insult, it's a genuine question. Many think they have an idea what 350 inches of antler looks like but probably less than 1/4 of those can accurately identify them on a regular basis. Things in the field can happen really fast and we all WANT to see one so by no fault of our own (minus inexperience), excitement sets in and the magical "350" comes out in a conversation. The "400" is even better. Elk are no different than Coues deer- a 3x3 can score anywhere from 50"-130"+ (approximately). And that's a HUGE difference! A pretty 6x6 bull elk screaming his brains out at 30 yards through the trees as he's coming in on a string can look big. Angles play tricks too. But ultimately he might be 280". And if you don't have much experience and it happens real fast, he might look like a magical number. Especially if your wife or son happens to be by themselves when it happens. This isn't meant to discourage you. I just want you, your wife and son to have a great hunt and not put too much pressure on the final inches measured. It sounds like your wife is fairly new at this and I'm assuming your son's in the same boat? If you've got two weeks of hunting and you're already thinking about 350" bulls, be prepared to deal with some worn out (physically and mentally) hunters by the end of the first week and possibly some great bulls being passed up in the mean time. It's one thing for us to hold out but another for first time hunters. Most first time hunters who go home empty handed feel like they've failed. Many times they don't know what to expect so we've got to be careful not to set the bar too high. I'm sorry if I sound negative. Not my intentions. Just make sure that the number one goal everyone has going into this hunt is to have fun and instill those memories/experiences that encourage a desire to come back and do it again the next year. THAT'S more important than anything else. Good luck. You've got a good tag and it should be a blast!!

Congratulations, Jessica! Bet crawling in that cave was FUN...... Love the new videos and site, btw.

I know what migra is. Just didn't know what megre was.... : )

What's megre??

Are you scared? Did it work? What did he say that classified him as belonging to "organized religion" anyway? Suggesting that those who belong to organized religion are "absurd" is about as accurate as me saying that all those who don't believe in organized religion are lazy whiners, just looking for an excuse to self indulge one more day of the week. Ignorant, huh? Interesting how so many will die to protect our 2nd ammendment rights but mock or ignore every other Devine right written and recognized by the authors of those documents.

I've never done it but a friend of mine has. He had the same experience as Troy. For $3,500 you could probably draw a late rifle general hunt, hire a reputable outfitter and have more opportunities at a bull just as good.

Just an update. The department is fully aware of this "problem". There's no doubt that they didn't anticipate these issues when adopting the online system (like Tony mentioned). Supposedly they're working on some things.

Can someone explain how at least a BP isn't issued if a debit card is rejected when drawing? Seems to me that if they took your application fee (which is all that's needed to purchase a BP) then the right thing to do if a bank rejects the charge would be to issue a BP. This didn't happen to me. Just hearing stories. Sad that they lose their loyalty point as well. I know much of these rejections are out of azgfd's hands. But It just seems right that if a card is rejected at the time of draw then at least a BP would be issued (since it was essentially paid for anyway).

How fitting it is that an unreasonable organization are empowering themselves with impractical (and probably illegal) methods. Dorks

You guys who have to think about it (unless you're older than 50), draw WAY too many tags. haha! Since 1994 2002- archery cow tag 2012- rifle bull tag

That would suck for the guys like me that put in for the less desired tags and get to hunt every year. Hope that never happens in AZ I like to hunt elk every year even if it is not a rut tag. I'm sure he's suggesting a wait period on rut tags only. Or the "most desirable" tags in the waiting period category.

so like I said.....why touch the loyalty?

I'm with you on that. Insufficient funds, bounced check, whatever..... That's out of their hands and our fault. But it seems to me a pretty simple fix (especially since it's not very common). Rejection description: Card dishonored. Not drawn! Issue a BP. Or worst case, don't issue a BP (and I'd fight this one too). But don't touch the loyalty.....

Coach, I have zero problem with the department keeping the $7.50 if I made a mistake (as minor as it might be) on my app. That's MY fault. And by no means am I suggesting that they MUST give me a my tag either. I just don't see how a BP is lost or removed because a card was dishonored via the bank after the the app fee and app was accepted. Once again, the application was filled out correctly, app fee was accepted, application itself was accepted and essentially a tag was "drawn". But by no fault of the cardholder (if that's the case), the charge was rejected because it looked "fraudulent"? That's fine, don't give me the tag. But how is losing a BP and loyalty point acceptable in this case??

Just because we "know a guy" doesn't make it a fact. But for arguments sake, it doesn't mean it's not factual either. I'm sure Obama would gladly share with us the "public records" of White House guests but.........

One things for certain- we'll probably never know either way (in regards to anything shady). But we do know that the dept can issue a tag if they want to. We know this has been the case when a mistake is made on their part. There are probably thousands of losers sitting at home right now trying to hack into systems to gain others' personal Identification for self gain. How naive it would be to assume that this random draw and system couldn't be hacked into and altered? OR a more practical method- you know the system already and just issue a tag! I just wish I was a loser and could figure it out!

Excactly. And maybe a few who've unfortunately gone through this mess can chime in on what they lost and what they didn't.

Just to clarify, these people aren't losing ALL of their points. Just the species point for THAT year and their loyalty point. It's like the NFL "tuck" rule. I can only imagine the game and fish is going to see this as a huge mistake and change it's policy to issuing a BP if a card is rejected at the time of draw (since app fee was paid). That's my hope, anyway

I'm in the same boat. My daughter will be able to hunt next year and my son a couple of yrs later. To echo what's already been said, I don't like the idea of a "waiting period" for kids. I agree that they need the exposure as much as possiible to keep their interest but if you plan on keeping a kid interested with just big game hunts in AZ you'll have a tough time. There are so many small game opportunities that I'd venture to say so many of us thrived on growing up. THAT keeps a kid not only interested but sure teaches them great skills as they get older and are apply them towards big game. It also "forces" parents to teach their kids that learning how to hunt is what it's about, not how many 100" deer a 12yr old can pass up until his dad and 4 buddies find him the 110" buck "worthy" of the tag :huh: all the while the 12yr old sleeps.... This also might sound contradictory to the above statement but I probably would be for reducing the "youth" age by a couple of years. Maybe keep the cost the same until they're 18 but to draw a youth tag......maybe up to 16yrs of age?? Then again, I don't know how many this will really weed out. I think the G and F has done an okay job at trying to accomodate the youth while considering our "supply" (or lack there-of). Here's an idea. I'm absolutely positive that they could squeeze two or three MORE hunts in 33 for some kids. Why not (insert sarcasm..)???

That's funny. But not really...

For what it's worth, I don't know if I could go without an insulated boot. Weather can turn for the worse even during early hunts and cold feet can make for a miserable time in the field. I hear they're great boots though!

What she said....

This is an interesting article for those who would like to read it. http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/im-gay-and-i-oppose-gay-marriage