desertyankee

Hello all, I'm a new member, but an old hunter-- trouble is, all my experience is with Maine whitetails. I drew a late rifle bull hunt in Unit 22 North, and have been scouting and picking brains pretty hard. I've walked about fifty miles-- above the Highline Trail, all over Hardscrabble Mesa, out to the end of Deadman Mesa, etc.. Haven't yet looked around Diamond Rim or down into the Mazatzal Wilderness, but I've certainly seen lots of elk already. The advice I've gotten so far basically boils down to this: If I'm willing to take any bull, hunt the big woods off the Control Road. If I want a really big bull, get down into the deep and nasty places like Rock Canyon, Hardscrabble Canyon, The Gorge, etc., a few miles beyond where guys can drive. Finally, everyone says that the weather will be a huge factor in where the elk are at that time. I have all seven days to hunt (Dec.3-9), and will be toting a Ruger #1 in .30-06. My "base camp" will be a tent, set up near wherever I wind up hunting. This forum seems to have many knowledgeable contributors, so I'd be interested in hearing any opinions about what I should be considering. Definitely not asking for specific honey holes; I intend to find this bull myself-- and already have a few sweet looking spots. My goal is to shoot a mature bull from inside 100 yds., and I'd much rather be still-hunting than glassing all day. Don't mind packing a big one out several miles if it comes to that. Any suggestions? Thanks.

Your good intentions are what counts. And I know what you're saying; some guys on forums can be pretty rough. I had no shortage of AZ "experts" telling me that I was dreaming if I thought I could get a nice bull on public land with a 50-yd. shot or less. Happily, they were wrong. Here's one last photo, showing the bull as he lay...and now I'll let this thread go back to the attic!

That bull was taken with a Ruger #1 single-shot chambered for .30-06; I believe I had some 180-gr. bullets. The hunt in this thread was way back in 2010; now all my elk hunting is done with a recurve bow.

And just for good measure, here's a pic of a squirrel for ThomC as well. Here in Maine I'm a bicycle commuter, which is a great way to pick up some additional roadside protein for the diet.

Wow, this is a blast from the past! I did succeed in getting a nice 6 x 6 bull that year I started this thread, and I kind of enjoyed the last laugh. I took some ribbing when I posted that I didn't think walkie-talkies or spotting scopes or long shots were fair, and that I hoped to shoot my bull from 50 yards or less. I wound up shooting this bull at 22 yards...in fact there might be an archived thread called "22 yards in 22 North" that tells the whole story of that hunt. Anyway I'm back in Maine now, but will always have fond memories of my time hunting and rambling outdoors in Arizona that fall.

How far are you willing to walk, and how much snow do you need? There are some beautiful campsites on Milk Ranch Point, right on the Rim above Pine. It's a pretty easy two-mile walk from the parking lot on Rt. 87 along closed Forest Service roads, and the views are worth it. Don't know how deep the snow is, but the DOT webcam in Clint Wells shows snowbanks so I'm guessing the ground will be white, at least. I camped there last March and had a great time, and had it all to myself.

Just had an incredibly fun December elk hunt, so with apologies to those who don’t like lengthy posts, here goes anyways! Ever since finding out last March that I’d been drawn for my first elk hunt ever, I’d been planning and imagining how a dyed-in-the-wool Maine deer hunter like me could use that experience on an Arizona elk hunt. My typical deer hunt was always a solo affair, and usually consisted of scouting up a nice buck in thick woods, getting to know his habits a bit, and then creeping around in his two- or three-acre core area at first and last light until our paths crossed, usually ending it with a shot of thirty yards or less from my .30-06 single-shot Ruger. That sure doesn’t sound like the typical Arizona elk hunt. My preliminary research into how the game was played out here exposed me to all sorts of strange new ideas and technologies—four wheelers, big binoculars, GPS, radios, helpers, guides, trailcams, and even baiting. Well, no offense and to each his own—but that stuff leaves me cold, I just wanted to get out in the woods and hunt. I planned on packing in my little tent and just enough gear to live outdoors all week. All I really wanted was an elk with at least a few stickers on his head; didn’t really care about measuring them. And as long as I was wishing, I wanted to shoot him just once at less than a hundred yards; preferably even less than fifty. Was that too much to ask? Unit 22 North seemed like the kind of place where I might actually be able to do this—there were some big woods, and plenty of terrain that was remote and rough enough to separate the woods hunters from the road hunters. The more I studied the area and talked to other folks, the more my upcoming hunt seemed to resolve into two viable options—either go way down in the Mazatzal Wilderness and check the deep canyons for some reclusive herd bull, or get up in the woods around the Control Road. As I drove south on Route 87 two days before my hunt, I still hadn’t decided which one I’d choose. I finally decided that this might be my only chance to get way down in, so by nightfall I had parked my truck and lugged my gear down on Hardscrabble Mesa, well beyond Twin Buttes. The next day was a sunrise-to-sunset “scout-a-thon” of about twelve miles, just checking the various tanks and assessing the elk sign. Got a few good lessons about desert hunting—I ran out of drinking water by 1:00, and had to eat prickly pears just to get enough juice and sugar in me to make it back to my tent by dark. As I pulled the stickers out of my fingers by headlamp that night, I decided that this was no place for a solo hunter during a December heat wave. Even if I shot the world’s biggest elk, the meat would spoil before I could ever get it packed out of there. My hunt opened the next morning, but by 9:00 AM I was packing up my gear and trudging back towards my truck. Two good things happened on the hike out. One was bumping into Greg Krogh of Mogollon Outfitters, whose dad had drawn the same tag as me, and having a quick chat about elk in 22 North with someone who knows plenty about that subject. The other was meeting a local guy named Dale, who clearly either admired my pluck or pitied my judgment, and graciously steered me towards a couple of his own honey holes. His parting remark was something like “Remember, they drag a lot easier downhill than uphill.” Once I had relocated to the north, I quickly got into elk. I spent Friday afternoon and Saturday morning playing tag with a group of three cows and a one-horned spike; nothing to shoot, but a good chance to watch and learn some elk behavior. It quickly became apparent that they didn’t like this December heat any more than I did. By 2:00 PM I had decided that I would move all the way up under the Rim, and find the coolest, darkest ponderosa grove that I could. I’d heard horror stories about the hordes of hunters up on the Control Road, but I was willing to bet that not many of them would be staying in tents a mile up in the woods like I was planning to. By 4:00, I staggered up one last steep slope just under the Rim and found a little flat shelf in a thicket. Dripping with sweat, I peeled off my shirt and pitched my tent. After a quick cool-down and munching an apple, I put on clean hunting clothes—including my lucky green-and-black buffalo plaid wool shirt from Maine deer hunting days-- and headed out for the last hour of daylight. It cooled down nicely as the shadows got longer, and it was quiet enough to hear a pin drop a hundred yards away. When I finally got up and started cat-footing it back down the elk path towards my tent to call it a day, there was a sudden crashing in the brush about two hundred yards from me—I kicked myself, thinking that I’d spooked one. But wait a minute—this thing was coming closer! As I stood frozen in amazement, whatever it was closed the space between us in about ten seconds, and the next thing I knew I saw brow tines sticking out from behind a tree. Then a lot more tines—and a big tan body—and suddenly my scope was filled with something that looked like an ad for the Hartford Insurance Company, standing smack in the middle of the trail and looking at me. Holy crap! There was no doubt that it was a shooter, so I dropped the crosshairs an inch behind his elbow and squeezed off a heart shot—I thought. But. . .nothing happened; literally nothing at all. It looked at me a second or two longer, then spun and ran back down into the gully it had just emerged from. I watched and listened in disbelief. . . what had gone wrong? After waiting five minutes I followed its tracks down the steep banking, fully expecting to find a heap of elk at any second. But nothing was there—no blood, no elk. While I was looking, I heard an elk jump a hundred yards away from me. If it was him, he sounded pretty healthy, and I knew better than to push any more. I went back to Ground Zero and paced off the distance – he had been 22 yards away. After I’d slunk back to my tent, it finally dawned on me that because he’d been standing on a steep uphill, his front leg was angled backwards, so my shot had been behind the heart. I had to hope that I’d gotten the liver—and that he hadn’t run too far after I jumped him. Sick with the thought that I might have wasted one, I spent a very long night, mostly beating myself up and listening to the coyotes outside. Daylight seemed to take forever to come. When it did, I decided that I’d be better off to circle the area and just look for him, rather than try to find a blood trail in the dim light. Three-quarters of the way through my first circle, I heard a faint rustling off to my right. Something was moving. . . it was a young black bear, headed diagonally downhill on a line that would soon cross my own path. I certainly didn’t need him around, so I made a bit of noise and he immediately turned tail and retreated. A minute later, I spotted what the bear was probably headed for; there was my elk. What a happy feeling it is when you find one that you could have lost. He was looking utterly at peace, stretched out between two boulders. The side of him that was up was cold, so I judged that he’d died early in the evening—a thought that gave me some comfort. I flipped him over so that the other side could cool down, and started skinning and quartering. By 2:00 PM I finally had everything ready to start packing the mile-long hike down the mountain, and as the sun dipped ever lower I started thinking about bears, and forced myself to travel as quickly as possible. Trip 1 was my camping gear and about fifty pounds of backstraps and side meat; trip 2 was a front and hind quarter, and ditto trip 3. The last trip was the head, with skin and neck still attached, and that one was the heaviest of all. By the time I reached my truck on the Control Road with the last load, it was 6:00 PM and almost all dark. Enough work for one day—but a tremendous sense of relief and satisfaction to have the hunt all done, and to have done it all by myself. I treated myself to dinner and a beer at the Sidewinder Saloon in Pine, then went back to a campsite on the Control Road-- one last night in the tent for me, and one last night in his home woods for the elk. I’m so grateful for having had this hunt, and for all the help from other hunters, whether on this forum (jeremyb,azpredator@work, etc.) or out in the field, who were willing to share their insights and advice with a newbie elkaholic. I have to especially thank Ron Hamric of Pine, who showed me the area and shared a lot of advice back when I was scouting—and even let me use his shower when I staggered back in from Hardscrabble! I’ve just about wrapped up my own DIY meat-making process; looks like about 190 pounds of boneless elky goodness will be the tally. Here’s a few pix; he may not be a toad, but he’s no tadpole either-- definitely worth doing as a European-style mount. He’s certainly a trophy to me.

Looked out the window last night at sundown and everything was all lit up for Christmas, including all 12 candles on my new friend, so I thought I'd share two quick pix-- along with wishes for peace and goodwill between close-range and long-range hunters everywhere!

True, and I believe that the tape measure and record books are the biggest contributing factor. Amen to that! We all like antlers, but hunters who are obsessed over their measurements do some pretty goofy things.

This is a fine, thought-provoking thread. As the guy on the 22-yard end of the spectrum, I'd quietly cheer to see a lot of the technology used in modern hunting just go away. But-- that's just me, and I try hard to take a "live and let live" outlook in matters of hunting. However, some things are just plain wasteful and cruel, like not even hiking over to see the effects of your shooting; like not being familiar with your rifle; like shooting past someone who's closer than you when you're both glassing the same game; and on and on. I agree that the stuff we see on DVD's and the Internet is a big part of the problem. "Antler porn" is a well-deserved name--it reduces magnificent, living animals to a one-dimensional set of measurements like antler score, or the range it was shot at. As with real pornography, some guys get hooked on this stuff and never mature their way out of it; thankfully, I believe that most of us come to realize that there's a lot more to hunting, and to life, than just looking for big racks. We each have our own definition of a trophy; we each hunt according to our own ethical standards; and we all have a duty to continually examine and refine these as we mature. "Hunter education" is a lifelong pursuit.

You gotta watch that Jeremy-- I think he's on a first name basis with every tree, bush and bull in the unit! He knew exactly the spot where I got mine as well. Congrats to Enrique and dad as well; I'll hope to meet you guys in 22N next year.

Just a bit more pickin' to do, but it's mostly done. It's not awful big, but I love the color and symmetry in it. . . wonder how my wife would be with picture #2 here?

Here's a quick question: How old is this bull? Here's the ivories-- I'm guessing it was his first set of 6 x 6 antlers, but it's just a guess. . .

Oh, the skull is cooking in a copper fire pit that we use for backyard barbecueing. Conveniently being done while wifey is at work. . . and here's a picture of my "high camp". When I found him the next morning he was only about 150 yd. from the tent.

This approach worked for me as well in 22N. Didn't see much evidence of bulls coming down off the Rim yet, but the resident bulls were sitting tight in their core areas, doing the bare minimum of travel. I never even broke out the binocs; just hit the cool ponderosa canyons and crept around checking for rub density. Had a nice young 6 x 6 come right to me, will post the story ASAP.

Thanks for the thoughts. . . and from my whitetail years I'd agree with all the comments about the taste of stressed animals; that's one reason why I never even bother shooting at a running animal. As for desert beef, last week I helped a friend butcher a steer from the Hopi rez, and I have to say that the flavor was awesome. None of my Hopi friends have much use for desert mulies, but they've all offered to help me get rid of any surplus elk I bring home-- so despite Hawkeye's kind offer, I'm all set.

This may be an odd question, but I've had two people now tell me that an elk from the big forest will taste better than one from piñon-juniper habitat. Never tasted either one before, so I don't know. . . but it seems at least plausible. Any "o-piñons" out there? It might make a difference where I hunt next week. . . Thanks.

I'm usually carrying a camera rather than binox when I'm out scouting, so sometimes I get an unusual picture. This fall in the woods south of Flagstaff I heard some animal giving panic screams; turned out to be a mulie fawn with a coyote just about glued to its tail as they zigzagged through the woods. They were almost to me when the mom showed up, and when she did the fawn laid down immediately and the mom held off first one coyote, and then another that joined the fracas. When I spotted a third one moving in, I felt like it was OK to even the odds by walking in myself and breaking up the whole party. I didn't get very good pix, but in this one you can see the doe, fawn, and coyote at pretty close quarters.

My camping is about as low-tech as you can get, and I've never run any kind of heater inside a tent, but here's a few thoughts on staying warm from some fairly long experience: 1) Old wool blankets from the secondhand store are great to have along-- as a tent floor, as a cover for your air mattress, and over your sleeping bag. They seal all those little cold air leaks, and allow you to unzip your sleeping bag for some comfort of movement. Plus, they keep all that nylon from slipping around, so your bedding stays in one place. 2) Take off as many clothes as you can stand to when you crawl in for the night, and pre-heat your morning clothing at the foot of your bedding. It makes the morning chill a lot easier to take if you can put on a few layers of already-warm clothing. 3) On a really cold night, just heat a few rocks around the campfire-- not nuclear hot, just warm them up. Wrap 'em in an old towel or game bag and use them to heat the tent, or even inside the sleeping bag for a few minutes before crawling in. They'll radiate heat for quite a while. 4) Some kind of a night cap really helps too, along with a pillow. If your head is warm, the rest of you will be too. 5) Have that morning firewood all split, covered against the dew/frost, and ready to roar. Happy hunting.

hey AZPredator, Nice pix!! Glad I was able to help-- and now if I see that bull I'll know he's yours and hold my fire . I'll probably wind up with something more like this one. . . and still be happy. And seriously, to each his own when it comes to the way we hunt; everyone has his own idea of what makes something a "trophy." I'd certainly agree that a hunt is way more satisfying when you succeed in getting a particular animal that you've already taken the time and effort to get to know-- no matter how you go about it.

Thanks Doug, I've been intending to see that area since reading (on the Web) a hiker's log of doing that section, from LF Ranch up to Hardscrabble-- and no surprise, they mentioned seeing lots of "small cow tracks" which they eventually figured out had been made by elk. From satellite pix, the area just east of there looks especially interesting.

Thanks to all for weighing in; I've been away from computer today but will offer a few thoughts: 1) I've seen tons of elk sign,and elk themselves, everywhere I've scouted so far in 22 North; the "spots" I've mentioned are really no better or worse than the rest of the district. The whole place seems quite elky, and along those lines I also have a hard time believing AZGFD's number of 30,00 elk in the whole state; feels like a serious underestimation to me. 2) Wish I could PM, but as AZGriz points out I can't yet-- but others can certainly PM me their email addresses and I'll be glad to have some private sharing of stories, pix, etc. 3) I too was baffled about uploading pictures by the "URL address" box, until I saw a good tip on the Internet on how to do this: just drag the icon of the picture you want to post right into the web browser window (that little long slot at the top of the page where it says http://whatever/whatever). The URL for that picture will then magically appear in your browser window! Then you just highlight your picture's URL, go to your edit pull-down menu and choose "copy", and then finally go back to the coueswhitetail.com upload area, click in that URL address box, and choose "paste" from your edit menu. Presto--it's there, and through some strange magic your pictures will actually upload-- at least mine did. Hope this helps, give it a try. 4) Glad to hear from others who think that scouting and brush-busting are worthwhile efforts. I've actually kind of enjoyed the way the elk have succeeded in avoiding the tanks, and the multitudes of shooters waiting there for them, in this wetter-than-normal year. Now if AZ would just outlaw baiting, salt blocks, hunting radios and quads, we'd be approaching fair chase.

Thanks--I was scouting east of Washington Park two weeks ago,mostly just to see the lay of the land. There was some resident bull activity there; lots of torn up trees, some very fresh scrapes, and one bull bugling at sundown. Earlier this spring I checked out Butler Mesa area, almost over to the hatchery-- lots of elk and sign there too. Payson Outfitters-- your story about your son's hunt two years ago reminded me of what Darr Colburn told me about the late hunt in 22N: "Shoot the first good 6 x 6 you see." No shortage of bulls, apparently, but very skittish by then and lots of antler damage from fighting. Thanks.

Thanks AZ Griz, Yeah, everyone mentions the weather. With whitetails we used to hope for bad weather, just not the horrendous stuff, because it made them move better in the daytime and dulled their sense of smell a bit. Same thing with elk?

Coues and Sheep, A minority of those I've spoken with have expressed similar thoughts to yours; i.e. the late hunt in 22N is unscoutable, unpredictable, and overpopulated with hunters. The majority-- including guys like Darr Colburn and Greg Krogh-- have encouraged me to scout the country, told me that there's plenty of elk there, and responded favorably to my "name dropping" of places because it actually allows us to have a richer conversation. But-- everyone seems to agree that it's a zone with a lot of movement, and that the elk will be in very different spots in December than they are in September; maybe that's the point you were making.