IA Born

Just got a reply from my friend: "AZ Elk Society will hold a camp, I think, at Happy Jack. Tell the person to check the hunt regs to be certain." It should be posted on AGFD's website or in the regs somewhere, but it will be happening.

There almost always is a youth camp for that hunt. I can't imagine RMEF not doing it. I'll email a friend of mine up here who is usually heavily involved and see what he knows. Stay tuned.

Congrats, Phil! I saw these pics on Instagram and didn't connect the dots at first. Good luck on your slam!

Still have it?

Thanks for pointing out what a deal this is! $768 plus sales tax or a transfer fee puts you north of $800 for the pistol only. This pistol is unfired NEW IN BOX! ( I did pull it out of the plastic to inspect it) and includes 5 boxes of quality new manufacture ammunition. $20/box x 5 =$100 I figure I'm giving somebody here $100 in free ammunition for the cost of the pistol. If you don't want the ammo, I'll sell the pistol for $725 and I'll burn up the ammo in one of my other pistols. Thanks! Schmitty That's a great deal on a great pistol! I wish i could! Good luck!

This right here, too. We need mentors and those of us who have taken kids out can point you in directions in 5BS!

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I thought I described it all earlier. There are 8 or 9 total decks, one for each chapter. I was able to get a second deck since I had so much demand and interest.

Back up to the top. Our new deck got here today and I have almost a full deck available. There are about 12 cards spoken for. Come and get them!

I'd offer to help you, Lance, but I'm going to be busy helping my daughter with her soon-to-be-hers Unit 1 early rifle bull tag! I put my wife in for the hunt and she got drawn, so she's signing it over to our daughter! I told her the news when I got home from work and said it was Junior Decker's way of still watching over her. She smiled big and then went ape-$h!t crazy hugging and thanking me and her mom!

That is a beautiful tribute, DIY, and we've probably sat on the same stool and crossed paths in there. Junior was a great man. When we moved to Flagstaff almost 10 years ago, I decided to get back into archery, so I checked out BBA based on a Phoenix friend's recommendation. Junior was extremely helpful and I'll never forget him telling me "I'm not in this to make money. I'm doing this because I want to help get people into archery." Junior gave so much to the archery community in northern Arizona and he was a big supporter of the local conservation groups. BBA regulars were family. He always had a hug for my daughter and treated my son like a friend and a young man. They both got so much swag, its unreal. He always had time for kids and he always made them feel special. My wife never complained when I spent money there because she knew how well we were all treated, including when she finally bought her first bow. I know my daughter will take this news hard when my wife picks her up from school this afternoon. Yes, RIP, Junior. You will be missed more than words can ever express.

You've got lots to be proud of, Sean, and he's got a great future!

I wish my schedule would have worked out to join you in New Mexico! We leave for Kansas for my daughter's hunt in 19 days. Then we regroup and head down to Happy Jack for the youth hunt and camp there, where she is supposed to be the "Guest of Honor" for the NWTF JAKES program. I'll be taking her out and mentoring other kids as well. Last night, her custom call from Albert Paul got here a full month earlier than planned!

I'm in my kid's school parking lot laughing hysterically! I quit drinking, but first round is on me! It's not just early cervids, there are still fanged deer in Asia! Elk ivories are the vestiges of their fanged days! I like the pool idea! I'll opt out, though, to keep it fair. I have access to all the evolutionary cladograms!

So I just looked real quick in one of my old vertebrate taxonomy books and the split between rodentia and ungulates was in the Cretaceous Period, over 65 million years ago. I'd say that qualifies as "very, very far back in prehistory", if you believe in that sort of thing. Can we get back to discussing rambilly ewenanny AudadBarbary SheepRams?

I wish I could say I followed the advice of "don't push him" and "don't force it", but I did the exact opposite with my son when he was 7. I had the archery elk tag in 6B and asked him to go deer hunting with me to scout for my hunt. At first he said yes all week and then, when it was time to gear up, he decided to be his usual homebody, despite his older sister encouraging him to go and telling him how much fun he'd have. He and I had a knock-down drag out argument right there in the garage. I threatened to ground him for a week and take away everything he cared about for the rest of the weekend. Parenting fail, right?? He ended up going with me and we hiked the half-mile into the stock tank I was scouting. We sat in an oak thicket and pulled dead oak twigs off the tree next to us and had light saber fights for two hours. It was so hot, I wasn't worried about the commotion, but I'd stop and look/listen every so often. As it was getting closer to sunset, we bagged it early and hiked back up to the truck. On the drive home, we passed a big herd of elk off the side of the road and he got to see the herd bull in my binos. After that night, he has bugged me every season to go and he couldn't wait to take hunter ed when he turned nine. He got a 100% on his test this past February and hugged me in front of the whole class. Now he's chomping at the bit to get out! I knew then and I know now it wasn't the best approach, but I took a gamble on the personality I knew. It paid off, but I got lucky. Like others have said, start the scouting trips and make them fun. I'll bet he comes around If you're near Flagstaff and want some help, I can grab my son and try meet up with you, unless I'm off scouting for my daughter's bull tag!

One of things I loved when I started the process to convert to Catholicism five years ago, was that my priest and the RCIA instructors all knew my science background and convictions. They were great in pointing out to me that the Bible was written by man. The same man you point out being wrong before. My priest even sat me down and showed me how the Catholic Church now supports evolution. I've been a scientist long enough to know exactly how wrong man has been before and there is a reason Homo sapiens is my least favorite species to work with. I've also read some pretty darn stupid stuff about evolution, and I've seen that stupid stuff from both believers and non-believers. I've always loved that Charles Darwin was a devout Christian, but stuck to his beliefs in evolution, particularly natural selection. That has certainly helped me find peace with my religious and scientific beliefs. Adaptation is evolution and at least we can agree that horses never had gills, man was not an ape, and a fish was not a rabbit. Beyond that we can agree to disagree and I will always respect your beliefs and convictions, as well as simply respecting the person you are, buddy! You aren't the first, and you certainly won't be the last person I've disagreed with over science and religion. Besides, now we've both digressed from the original post's intentions and I'll still be there to help you pack an elk out! The funny thing is, I've always known NA elk as Cervus elaphus, but I have an old field guide that has them as Cervus canadensis! I didn't know about SCI recognizing them as conspecific, but then I also don't follow SCI much. That's awesome! As for your observations as hunter with where all you've hunted them, the only thing I can say is that genetics never lie! I'm going to have to contact the geneticist I was in that class with all those years ago and see if I can get that paper again. Mongolia, though...that's a bucket list trip, but for different reasons: taimen on the fly!!

I'm originally from the midwest, too. The first time I showed my dad Coues whitetail does (mature does, by the way) when he was down visiting, he was all excited to see yearling deer up close. I had to point out they were mature does. That's how much smaller they are than our midwestern whitetails! And don't even ask about scoring them out here vs scoring them back in the Midwest. You're likely to get more backlash than you'll ever want!

For the sake of argument, elk and red deer/stag are genetically identical, which is why they can produce viable, fertile offspring. If you took the DNA from a North American elk and a European red deer/stag, you couldn't tell the two apart by species. I sat in on a conservation genetics class almost 10 years ago and we discussed the paper and the species' genetics. I wish I still had that paper. Technically, they should have the exact same scientific name. Taxonomically, they should probably be subspecies, but it will likely never get published or recognized as such because of the record books. Evolving on separate continents for 10,000 years is what has lead to differences in antler growth and vocalizations, but they are still genetically identical. We don't call bull elk stag and cow elk hinds because we do our own thing compared to Europe/Asia. Its like "orthopedic" in NA and "orthopaedic" in Europe. Bill is correct in that Audad are more genetically akin to goats than sheep and I doubt any interbreeding would result in viable offspring, thus making them true hybrids, but arguing over common vernacular is kind of mute. Its kind of like when people tell me they've seen chicken hawks or timber rattlesnakes here in Arizona. Rather than trying to correct everyone and sound righteous (like I used to 20 years ago), I just start talking about it with them. heck, the biologist/taxonomist in me has even learned to start saying "Coos" when referring to those little whitetails! Having said all of that, I'm with Hoghutr and DesertBull in that hunting and harvesting a nice rambilly is one of my bucket list items! But for those of us that don't have any idea it is interesting conversation and enlightening knowledge wise!!! Like others have said, looks incredibly interesting and fun to hunt and would love for my wife to stick a tag in my Christmas/Birthday stocking!!! It must be late and two long days of being the single dad with my wife out of town must have caught up to me. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to take that as a compliment for contributing, or a "shut the #$@! up!" My intention was to contribute to the very interesting conversation and enlightenment. As you can probably tell, I love genetics, especially when it comes to conservation and what we do. Like Phil Cramer said earlier, I still call them rams and ewes and always have. Like you and others, I just want to hunt one! At one time, I almost had my wife talked into letting me put in for an Ibex tag in NM. Those are definitely goats! Absolutely not the shut up version, some of you guys truly know your stuff and some of us truly are clueless, I mean, a Javelina is for sure a pig right .For example, one of the best three way cross breed of pigs is Hampshire boar to a York sow then come back and breed that offspring with a Duroc and you have one of the best meat pigs on the market!!! But hey they are all pigs right??? Honestly was meaning that some of these topics like when you were helping us dissect the different snakes......I was very interested in the information you provided. I don't read much but I do read CWT every day I am in internet range and I have learned tons from the different sides that people present so don't "shut the #$@! up!" Now to show my ignorance on the subject I am assuming the AOUDAD is an imported critter right? Thanks! That's what happens when you're trying to get two kids to two different places at the same time while the next day's carefully laid out schedule changes. I also call javelina pigs even though I know better! Pretty sure they're rodents (my personal favorite to correct)! And, yes, they are nonnative and were imported. I believe the New Mexico population was the result of audad (also Barbary Sheep) escaping from a private ranch somewhere north of Carlsbad. Texas...oh, Texas. I think Texas has more nonnative, introduced game animals than native ones! My brother-in-law in Laredo actually turned me on to Audad hunting, but he wants to get his the old-fashioned Texas way. He wants to pay good money to sit over a feeder and wait for a good one to come in, same as how he wants to get a 7x7 elk someday. SMH... I know your the scientist but since you also think the world is like a billion years old.. I think they declassified javelina and know longer think they are a rat. The javelina is native to the Western Hemisphere while true pigs are native to Eastern.. So my question is why is it not just called a western hemisphered wild pig? Oh and i still wanna kill one of those sheep goat things! Especially now that I know they don't taste like a sheepgoat Earth is actually more than a billion years old, my friend! I was joking about the javelina/rodent thing. People try to tell me all the time that they are rodents and it makes me laugh. Javelina are not even in the pig family, which is why they aren't called a western hemisphered wild pig. Taxonomically, they are in the same order as pigs (Artiodactyla), but a different family. Their closest relatives are, in fact, pigs and hippos. Yes, you read that right: hippopotamuses (hippopatami?). No North American relative, but the Tayassuid family is known from the fossil record from all continents except Australia and Antarctica, so they were native almost all over at one point. And I still want to hunt an Audad/Barbary Sheep and shoot a nice Ram/billy, too!

For the sake of argument, elk and red deer/stag are genetically identical, which is why they can produce viable, fertile offspring. If you took the DNA from a North American elk and a European red deer/stag, you couldn't tell the two apart by species. I sat in on a conservation genetics class almost 10 years ago and we discussed the paper and the species' genetics. I wish I still had that paper. Technically, they should have the exact same scientific name. Taxonomically, they should probably be subspecies, but it will likely never get published or recognized as such because of the record books. Evolving on separate continents for 10,000 years is what has lead to differences in antler growth and vocalizations, but they are still genetically identical. We don't call bull elk stag and cow elk hinds because we do our own thing compared to Europe/Asia. Its like "orthopedic" in NA and "orthopaedic" in Europe. Bill is correct in that Audad are more genetically akin to goats than sheep and I doubt any interbreeding would result in viable offspring, thus making them true hybrids, but arguing over common vernacular is kind of mute. Its kind of like when people tell me they've seen chicken hawks or timber rattlesnakes here in Arizona. Rather than trying to correct everyone and sound righteous (like I used to 20 years ago), I just start talking about it with them. heck, the biologist/taxonomist in me has even learned to start saying "Coos" when referring to those little whitetails! Having said all of that, I'm with Hoghutr and DesertBull in that hunting and harvesting a nice rambilly is one of my bucket list items! But for those of us that don't have any idea it is interesting conversation and enlightening knowledge wise!!! Like others have said, looks incredibly interesting and fun to hunt and would love for my wife to stick a tag in my Christmas/Birthday stocking!!! It must be late and two long days of being the single dad with my wife out of town must have caught up to me. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to take that as a compliment for contributing, or a "shut the #$@! up!" My intention was to contribute to the very interesting conversation and enlightenment. As you can probably tell, I love genetics, especially when it comes to conservation and what we do. Like Phil Cramer said earlier, I still call them rams and ewes and always have. Like you and others, I just want to hunt one! At one time, I almost had my wife talked into letting me put in for an Ibex tag in NM. Those are definitely goats! Absolutely not the shut up version, some of you guys truly know your stuff and some of us truly are clueless, I mean, a Javelina is for sure a pig right . For example, one of the best three way cross breed of pigs is Hampshire boar to a York sow then come back and breed that offspring with a Duroc and you have one of the best meat pigs on the market!!! But hey they are all pigs right??? Honestly was meaning that some of these topics like when you were helping us dissect the different snakes......I was very interested in the information you provided. I don't read much but I do read CWT every day I am in internet range and I have learned tons from the different sides that people present so don't "shut the #$@! up!" Now to show my ignorance on the subject I am assuming the AOUDAD is an imported critter right? Thanks! That's what happens when you're trying to get two kids to two different places at the same time while the next day's carefully laid out schedule changes. I also call javelina pigs even though I know better! Pretty sure they're rodents (my personal favorite to correct)! And, yes, they are nonnative and were imported. I believe the New Mexico population was the result of audad (also Barbary Sheep) escaping from a private ranch somewhere north of Carlsbad. Texas...oh, Texas. I think Texas has more nonnative, introduced game animals than native ones! My brother-in-law in Laredo actually turned me on to Audad hunting, but he wants to get his the old-fashioned Texas way. He wants to pay good money to sit over a feeder and wait for a good one to come in, same as how he wants to get a 7x7 elk someday. SMH...

It is full amount up front. I think it is a great system. No worries about having a credit card screw up during the draw and loosing a tag over it like you can in AZ. You either get a tag or you just gave NMDGF a short term loan that is repaid reasonably quickly. So my wife just let me put in for NM elk (Q unit) with a buddy from back home in Iowa. It was definitely a "charge your card up front" application. I marked the "refund if not drawn" box for my license/stamp combo and the screen said "You will be charged $847.00 for this transaction...", but the receipt that was emailed to me didn't have the license charge on it. My buddy asked me when the draw is and when we'd find out if we're drawn or not. I told him it was good question, but guessed late May/early June. Anyone care to enlighten me? Then I can tell my wife when to expect a refund on the credit card. I sent you a pm. Got it. Thanks, Tommy!

It is full amount up front. I think it is a great system. No worries about having a credit card screw up during the draw and loosing a tag over it like you can in AZ. You either get a tag or you just gave NMDGF a short term loan that is repaid reasonably quickly. So my wife just let me put in for NM elk (Q unit) with a buddy from back home in Iowa. It was definitely a "charge your card up front" application. I marked the "refund if not drawn" box for my license/stamp combo and the screen said "You will be charged $847.00 for this transaction...", but the receipt that was emailed to me didn't have the license charge on it. My buddy asked me when the draw is and when we'd find out if we're drawn or not. I told him it was good question, but guessed late May/early June. Anyone care to enlighten me? Then I can tell my wife when to expect a refund on the credit card.

For the sake of argument, elk and red deer/stag are genetically identical, which is why they can produce viable, fertile offspring. If you took the DNA from a North American elk and a European red deer/stag, you couldn't tell the two apart by species. I sat in on a conservation genetics class almost 10 years ago and we discussed the paper and the species' genetics. I wish I still had that paper. Technically, they should have the exact same scientific name. Taxonomically, they should probably be subspecies, but it will likely never get published or recognized as such because of the record books. Evolving on separate continents for 10,000 years is what has lead to differences in antler growth and vocalizations, but they are still genetically identical. We don't call bull elk stag and cow elk hinds because we do our own thing compared to Europe/Asia. Its like "orthopedic" in NA and "orthopaedic" in Europe. Bill is correct in that Audad are more genetically akin to goats than sheep and I doubt any interbreeding would result in viable offspring, thus making them true hybrids, but arguing over common vernacular is kind of mute. Its kind of like when people tell me they've seen chicken hawks or timber rattlesnakes here in Arizona. Rather than trying to correct everyone and sound righteous (like I used to 20 years ago), I just start talking about it with them. heck, the biologist/taxonomist in me has even learned to start saying "Coos" when referring to those little whitetails! Having said all of that, I'm with Hoghutr and DesertBull in that hunting and harvesting a nice rambilly is one of my bucket list items! But for those of us that don't have any idea it is interesting conversation and enlightening knowledge wise!!! Like others have said, looks incredibly interesting and fun to hunt and would love for my wife to stick a tag in my Christmas/Birthday stocking!!! It must be late and two long days of being the single dad with my wife out of town must have caught up to me. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to take that as a compliment for contributing, or a "shut the #$@! up!" My intention was to contribute to the very interesting conversation and enlightenment. As you can probably tell, I love genetics, especially when it comes to conservation and what we do. Like Phil Cramer said earlier, I still call them rams and ewes and always have. Like you and others, I just want to hunt one! At one time, I almost had my wife talked into letting me put in for an Ibex tag in NM. Those are definitely goats!

For the sake of argument, elk and red deer/stag are genetically identical, which is why they can produce viable, fertile offspring. If you took the DNA from a North American elk and a European red deer/stag, you couldn't tell the two apart by species. I sat in on a conservation genetics class almost 10 years ago and we discussed the paper and the species' genetics. I wish I still had that paper. Technically, they should have the exact same scientific name. Taxonomically, they should probably be subspecies, but it will likely never get published or recognized as such because of the record books. Evolving on separate continents for 10,000 years is what has lead to differences in antler growth and vocalizations, but they are still genetically identical. We don't call bull elk stag and cow elk hinds because we do our own thing compared to Europe/Asia. Its like "orthopedic" in NA and "orthopaedic" in Europe. Bill is correct in that Audad are more genetically akin to goats than sheep and I doubt any interbreeding would result in viable offspring, thus making them true hybrids, but arguing over common vernacular is kind of mute. Its kind of like when people tell me they've seen chicken hawks or timber rattlesnakes here in Arizona. Rather than trying to correct everyone and sound righteous (like I used to 20 years ago), I just start talking about it with them. heck, the biologist/taxonomist in me has even learned to start saying "Coos" when referring to those little whitetails! Having said all of that, I'm with Hoghutr and DesertBull in that hunting and harvesting a nice rambilly is one of my bucket list items!

He's excited! We're looking at those metro pig tags around Phoenix in December. That way he can hunt right after he turns 10. I love the 36s, but they are too far for us for a weekend with us being up here in Flagstaff.

Thanks for the tip on the gaiters! I'm definitely going to look into those! And I've definitely hunted enough blinds in south Texas to know to look first, but I've had a couple where the last 2-3 just wouldn't leave. I had to look up what a hickory chicken was. Growing up, we just called them morels. They are the only mushroom I'll eat, but I doubt I'll be searching too much for them with everything else going on those few days we're there. 3 weeks from tomorrow, we drive down to Phoenix to spend the night before our 0520 flight!