IA Born

I'm totally scratching my head at the idea of giving up $10,000 in deposits so someone could go with another outfitter. If I had made other plans and wanted to go with another outfit, I'd have no room to complain about anything, especially if there was a non-refundable deposit I (and I get and understand non-refundable deposit). But then, I wouldn't put myself in a situation where I decided to go with someone else after booking a trip, unless there were crazy circumstances like one of the guides/owners was a murderer/rapist/pedophile, etc. But then, I've learned lessons about doing homework and research about references over the years. In the end, lawyer or not, I have no desire to go that route. I posted up my case and view and asked for honest input. Whether or not they were the answers I wanted, they almost all ended up being the answers I needed. I've had a private discussion with a man I highly respect and, throughout it all, I've found the peace I wanted and needed. I played my cards, the chips will fall where they will, and God will ultimately handle this for me. My kids are safe and back at camp as of Monday morning having a blast. Though I'm not a firefighter anymore, I have many good friends still working who will always watch out for me and my family because they know I will do the same for them. I have no regrets and appreciate all of the input and insight (especially you, Phil!). On top of all that, it rained in Flagstaff today! May God bless each and every one of you and your families.

I'm about the same as both of you, WarrZone and AzDiamondHeat. I pour over maps, try to cover as much ground as possible to narrow down opening day/weekend plans and then spend as much time second guessing what's in the other areas when I'm in my main area.

Best reply all day! And sorry your horse camp and rodeo didn't work out. Suckiness all around on this one. I had friends working on the fire's incident management team calling/texting me Wednesday morning, telling me (insert your own expletives) "Hurry the ##@% up, quit ##@$@#$ around, and get your kids out of camp NOW!" or words along those lines.

Thanks, Phil. I'm sorry you had to go through something similar. I hope you know how much respect I have for you and value your insight, more so than most. Our ordeal was scary enough as a parent. I can't imagine what was going through your head as a dad to a precious daughter. Its a tough pill to swallow, but I'm thankful that the kids are safe. In the end, I may lose and I'm perfectly fine with that. To not try is against my nature. This whole thread has been cathartic enough for me and your post helped put my mind at ease. Forward. One of these days, we'll shake hands in person and (hopefully) get a chuckle out of our experiences. I tried to book (commit money) to our first free weekend in October, but they said that was too far out. We've already started putting a plan in place with another outfit (better reviews, even) and I need to start practicing my double haul again.

Again, I asked for honest input and I'm getting it and I truly appreciate it. We did what we felt was best to look out for the best interest of our family the same as they were looking out for their business' best interest and I have zero regrets. Your replies (except for Lee needing to imply me being stupid) are greatly appreciated and have given me plenty to consider, have had some great points, and now its time to move forward. I'm thankful every day that our kids are safe and no longer in harm's way. I've booked fishing trips in Alaska, Florida, California, and Mexico and most places had clauses in their policies for extenuating circumstances. I guess I still hold out hope that there is enough humanity and compassion left in this world that extreme situations are considered fully, especially when I didn't really cause the problem; there were circumstances beyond my control. That's part of what set me off. We tried to work things out and reschedule, but they didn't like our time frame, even though we were willing to commit. Had they been more flexible and not made the comment about their guides' kids needing to be fed, I could have swallowed that pill a little easier. I appreciate your insight as much as anyone's. And, like wish2hunt said, I enjoy doing business with people like you. I grew up in a small town doing business by word and handshakes, and working things out when the stuff hit the fan. I've paid restocking fees, return fees, nonrefundable deposits (usually $100-$150), and hotel costs because of my ineptitude/poor planning at the moment. For this one, there was no contract to sign. I made a phone call, made arrangements, and the manager said they'd charge us when we got there; no deposit, no contract (I asked). Oh well. Like others have said, its time to chalk it up to experience and live/learn. I'll probably be looking into trip insurance for future endeavors. Thanks again for all of the input and insight and I'm moving forward planning my next trip and hoping that my credit card gets hit tomorrow for a sheep tag for me and a deer tag for my daughter.

Signature Taxidermy did my daughter's deer hide for her 3 years ago. They did a great job. I'm sure most any of the other taxidermists in town will do it, but I can only vouch for Signature.

Sorry for not clarifying or assuming everyone knows what a wading belt is. I've seen too many instances of people slipping and falling, having their waders fill up, and they get carried away, drowning somewhere along there.

No, I didn't have to pay in full or even put a deposit down, which surprised me. That's the first time I've had a trip like this booked where there wasn't even any kind of payment made. I asked for honest input and I got it and I appreciate this response. I knew the policy going in and, yes, I had to cancel. And, as I said, I completely understand why they have their policy in place. Every trip I've ever booked has had similar policies, but most I've dealt with have clauses for extenuating circumstances. If it were not for my kids being involved, I wouldn't be upset. I've had to cancel overnight trips before, but those were from poor planning on my part and because I booked my hotel through Expedia, etc., I've had to eat the cost of two nights' of hotel stay. I didn't argue those situations because it was me who dropped the ball. Taking the kids with us would have cost another ~$900 to book guides/boats for the two days of fishing, which we didn't have budgeted. I truly do appreciate your input and I'll chalk this one up to lessons learned and move on.

Not much to add that Siwash, Oneshot, and Couespursuit haven't already said. I love my Simms breathable Gore-tex waders and my new Simms wading boots. Stockingfoot with good wading boots makes a huge difference in all-day comfort. And always wear a wading belt....always! Whatever you get, keep the patch kit in the chest pocket. As soon as you take it out, you'll need it.

This right here. We had to haul a$$ Wednesday to go get our kids from the 2-week summer camp they were at because nobody could guarantee the fire wouldn't spread that way (just west of Groom Creek). I've done tons of wildlife surveys and other job-related stuff in that area. When I heard Walker was being evacuated, my blood pressure shot way up. I have a friend working on the incident management team and we were texting talking off and on all morning, Wednesday. She was one of our emergency contacts for our kids. She was getting me info and finally called me up, to let me know all the people she knew were saying "Tell your friend to hurry the #$#% up and get his kids out of camp!" It cost us a fly fishing trip to the San Juan that we still have to pay for (sore subject), but our kids' safety will always be first. They were bummed that we were pulling them out, but then we got the email from the camp director that evening saying mandatory evacuations were in order for their camp.

Responding to PMs

Truck has been sold. Pleasure doing business with you and your son, Tom!

Exactly. I've been teaching our daughter (now 13) to drive since she was 10 for that very reason! Glad you got out ok and got your ankle fixed right!

Right off the bat, I strongly suggest looking at a Temple Fork Outfitter Pro II series. Hands down, one of the best fly rods on the market at a fraction of the price of a Sage, Orvis, etc. I own two TFOs (7'3" 3wt and 6' 2wt) and got my wife one (8'6" 5wt) and they cast and handle amazingly. New, the Pro II series are about $169. A cheaper version, but still great quality is the Signature II series. I'm not sure I'll every buy another Orvis or Sage again after handling TFOs. I'm always nervous with used fly rods because of not knowing their history, kind of like with used bows.

Lemme talk to the wife. Just sent her the link.

Definitely not a leopard frog. It has suction pads on its toes, which is only in the Hylids (tree frogs), and never in the ranids (leopard frogs, spotted frogs, bull frogs, etc.). That is most definitely a garden (canyon?) variety Hyla arenicolor, better known as the canyon tree frog. Very common, but very cool.

Can Talyor look anymore confident, Lance??? I have never put my daughter in for a youth elk hunt for the exact reason Lance and others have said. We've been blessed with three straight years of deer tags, but I have a feeling that will change soon and we'll go to the general deer hunts, again for the exact same reason. Better draw odds, which means better chances of keeping them interested. I've had several parents tell me before that their kids have lost interest in hunting because they haven't gotten drawn for the youth elk tags for four to five years straight. That's a risk I'm not willing to take.

AZ NWTF is starting up the first Wheelin' Sportsmen Chapter and having their first annual fundraiser. NWTF Wheelin' Sportsmen is a part of NWTF that is dedicated to helping sportsmen and sportswomen with disabilities outdoors, hunting and fishing. Right now, there is a committee of one, but he could really use some help in both planning and acquiring donations. The guy leading the charge on this is a dear friend of mine and is part of our chapter here in Flagstaff. He could really use some help getting this going. At the same time, please consider coming to the first fundraising banquet on June 3rd at Bass Pro Shops in Mesa. Info can be found on our NAZ NWTF Chapter FB page: https://www.facebook.com/NoAZChapterNWTF/ Flyers with ticket information: 2017 NWTF Wheelin' Sportsmen Banquet flyer.pdf

I'm just now catching this thread and all I can say is WOW! How much do you charge for that? I just PMd you about a rifle (loading) and now you got me asking myself how much trouble I can get in with my lovely wife!

I have a peer-reviewed article about the Yellowstone wolves and its a great science-based approach to what happens in herd dynamics. In this particular article, it documents black and grizzly bear predation on elk calves as being higher than wolf predation. It also documents what we all know in wildlife management and that is the reality of population ecology. Wolves are having virtually no impact on the larger herds in the study area because they are able to reproduce faster than they are being predated. Small elk herds are shrinking because they cannot reproduce fast enough. The funny thing is, this would be the case with or without wolves, especially in bear (black and grizzly) country. Throw in mountain lion predation and it quickly becomes far more than a "wolf issue". I also have the article where biologists for both Wyoming and Montana have gone on record as saying that their scientific data show that wolves have not had the impact on elk herds that everyone thought they would. Elk herds are doing just fine in those two states, even with healthy wolf populations. The first article I mention is too big to attach here, but I'll gladly email it to anyone that wants it. The other one is from Peterson's Hunting magazine a couple of years ago and I have it at home. I can scan it and share it later this week if anyone wants that one. The funny thing is, if you go back and read Lewis and Clark's journals, they describe an abundance of wolves, grizzly bears, elk, moose, black bears, mountain lion, and deer, all living in perfect population dynamics. It wasn't until white settlers moved west that issues arose and then it was, in reality, a competition for resources. And I've seen parts of the genetic data for wolves in Arizona. While it may be in question as to which subspecies was in which part of the state, its clear that wolves were fairly widespread in Arizona, including well within the current reintroduction site. Wolves are another reason why I really hate the subspecies concept. Gray wolves (Canis lupus) were actually widespread across the entire U.S. at one point. And, yes, I'm all for removing Federal protections and managing them properly as a big game species once science-based recovery goals have been met. Idaho and Montana have done a great job of managing them as big game species, setting quotas and issuing tags. I could honestly care less if people love or hate wolves. But they, like all game species, should be managed based on sound science and not emotion.

The decks are all labeled for each chapter, making each card unique, and all participants' info is on the card.

Its that time of year again! We have a deck of cards for our chapter up here in Flagstaff to raffle off the Governor's tag that is donated to the NWTF AZ State Chapter every year. Remember, the Governor's tag is good for 365 days in ANY OPEN UNIT (Gould's, Merriams, Rio units) in Arizona. All proceeds go towards turkey research and turkey habitat improvements. The drawing will be on August 5, 2017 at the Huachuca Goulds Banquet in Sierra Vista, AZ. We have been selling cards pretty well so far and I'm offering up the rest here on a first-come-first served basis. There are 22 cards left in our deck. Cards are $20 each and second prize is a nice gun, although we haven't been sent the official poster/flyer with what, exactly, the gun is. I'll be sending that inquiry after I submit this. And a huge thanks to Phil Cramer for already buying 5 cards from us! PM me with how many cards you want, and we'll work out the details from there (addresses, names, phone numbers, etc.). Help us Save the Habitat. Save the Hunt!

Wow, those guys are 10xs worse than the worst Coues Whitetailer... Some of them are for sure. Some of them are good friends of mine, but its fun to sit back and read when this topic comes up...and it does almost every year!

We still have some cards left. Lets get these sold!

Just did a general search on Iowawhitetail and tons of threads came up. https://www.iowawhitetail.com/forum/search/528309/?q=ozonic&o=date