Coach

Man, I stayed away from this thread as long as I could. There is, without a doubt, a certain machismo in a lot of hunters these days that has to do with "long-range-hunting". It wasn't that long ago that a 400 yard shot at a deer with a rifle was considered extreme, or a 70 yard shot with a bow. In the past 2 days, I've had some random encounters with other hunters talking about effective range, etc that got me thinking about this again. Yesterday, I was preparing for a HAM hunt in 27 for Javelina with my grandfather's old Hawkins .50 cal. A buddy and I decided we would try one traditional black powder hunt. For us, that means no conical or sabot bullets, no fiber optics or magnified scopes. Basically, round ball, patch, iron sights and black powder. We relaxed the rules enough to allow for loose pyrodex or other synthetic powder. I was able to establish that within 50 yards I was competent with the cap-and-ball Hawkins, but to follow up with my 1858 Remington Navy pisotl( .44 cal cap and ball) I had to be inside 20 yards. While pounding away at the cinder pit with Grandad's old Hawkins and the repro 1858 rovolver, I met up with a guy waiting for part of the range (the part I was using). The guy was nice enough, and well intentioned, but all he could seem to talk about was long range shooting. How his 356 fps bow made 120 running yard shots OK, etc. He told me how his cousin was having a sweet 22-250 set up to take 900 yard shots at deer. Now, not wanting to come across as some "know it all" I had to ask, just what grain of bullet are you guys planning to shoot out of a 22-250 at 900 yards. He responded something like 45-50 grains. You know where the conversation goes from here - over 3200 fps, only drops x inches, yada yada - so I ask, <b>how much energy do you think that bullet has as 900 yards...</b>You would think I just insulted his mother. Fact remains, a .225 cal bullet at 45 grains might not even penetrate most game animals' skin at 900 yards regardless of the muzzle velocity. Of course, my line of questioning was dismissed by stories of grandpa X, taking a huge something or other at over 1000 yards back when things were simple. Another guy, just today, my brother-in-law, lives somewhere way in the West valley. Good guy, ended up in the white tanks area 140 yards from a nice muley buck during archery season. His buddies gave him a ton of crap for not taking the shot - 140 yards!!! I told him I'd be pissed if he DID take the shot - granted, he's around 7' tall maybe 320 pounds and pretty f'ing lean. I didn't say I'd kick his butt for it - LOL. His buddies told him just hold over by 4 to 6 feet....Go figure. My point is, there is a disturbing trend going on. Right now, technology is byassing skill levels, and people think they can buy "long-range-hunting" tools, but they aren't willing to put in the time and practice to make use of those tools, whether they're archery or rifles or even black powder. You can buy the technology today to shoot 120 yards with a bow, 1000+ yards with a rifle or 500 yards with a muzzle loader. However, that technology still depends on people. People who have an acellerated heart rate when the shot comes up, or who are shooting offhand, or any number of circumstances. Anything can and will go wrong at that point. I have nothing but admiration and respect for the guys who can consistently make tough, long yardage shots. My complaint is that for every hard-core guy out there who puts in the time and effort to extend their hunting range, is 8 guys who think they can buy the same proficiency by slapping down a credit card.

That's pretty cool, Clay. I like it. Just wondering, with a free mount would you look at a full sized javi, or maybe a bear rug? I just neve thought of doing a Javi rug. Regardless, I like your choice. I've never seen a Javi rug, and it turned out really nice. Kudos to Wild Heritage on a very good job.

Could be pretty cool. I've noticed how many night-vision type tools are being sold these days by companies like Cabelas's and Bass Pro for coyote hunting. I wonder how that will impact AZGFD's ability to combat poaching. This could get interesting.

Does anybody have specifics of when this show will run? I'd like to see it.

Wow! Thanks for the report, Brian. I figured with the low front moving in the fishing would have been off. I sure hope to get into the fast bite this year with the boys. We hit it pretty good a couple years back but the last two springs it seemed we would always show up 2 days too late. A cold front would be on the way in and push the slabs back down, then while we are all at school or work the next week people would slay them. Rinse and repeat...

Great job! Way to get the kids out there hunting and giving them the taste of success!

That is simply awesome! Congrats! First big game archery kill at age 10 is amazing. Great job!

102 5/8

Congrats! That's a great looking buck for sure.

That was super cool. Man I love those little piggies! Thanks for sharing the hunt.

We had a super fun (although unusually easy) hunt for my two oldest sons' youth Javelina hunt. Friday morning before 9 AM we had the herd located. After a bit of a stalk we had circled around to keep the wind in our favor and got inside 100 yards. A couple of missed shots ensued but each of them redeemed themselves with good one-shot kills.

Nicely done! You guys are having a ball! Keep it up.

shameless BTT.

Scary stuff for sure, and I agree with Bill that the Blue Range is one of the first to be at risk here in AZ for this kind of nonsense - however I think some of the areas around Phoenix and Tucson could be equally impacted, as well as the units around the Grand Canyon, and Aravaipa Canyon, Patagonia Lake, just to name some of the obvious. Any place that draws a lot of hikers, sightseers, birders etc. where we "ghastly, camo-clad, heavily armed hunters" overlap in a "shared resource" environment, we're going to see this kind of pressure. In addition to becoming more informed and politically active about these issues, we can all play a role by doing a few very simple things. Make sure you keep a clean campsite, pick up not only your own litter, but that left behind by others, be courteous, respectful and helpful when you do encounter non-hunters in the field. It's also a good idea to make sure if you have game hanging in camp or in transport to make sure it is well taken care of, and when appropriate, out of sight. I've had lots of people flag me down to look at an animal and even take pictures, when the rack sticks up past the bed of a truck. That doesn't mean we want to hang the head over the tailgate or other tasteless stuff. By-and-large, the non-hunting public seems to be OK sharing the woods with hunters as long as they don't feel threatened or don't see us doing things that are overtly disrespectful or "showy". It only takes one "bubba" for a lot of non-hunters to make a bad impression. However, by being conscientious hunters with a good sense of awareness and a little judgement we can show the non-hunting public that we don't fit the easy stereotype, and that we truly are stewards of the land and animals we hunt. I tell my sons what my mom told me. "When you leave this house, others will judge our entire family by the way you conduct yourself. What you do will not only reflect on you, but on all of us." That statement is true for any family, and I think it's very applicable to our "extended family" of hunters.

Great looking buck. I'd say 105-108" for what it's worth. Definately a shooter any way you cut it. He's tall, not real wide but has great mass. He'll look great on the wall for sure.

That is awesome! Congrats, Dillon on a great looking Javi!

Beautiful buck! I would definately say high 90's. I sure wouldn't hesitate to "burn" my tag in January on a buck like that!!!

Wow - great buck, Shane. Congrats! I love the live footage.

Awesome!!! Any other give-aways?

Wow - can't believe I missed this post so long. Congrats on an amazing buck. Way to stick with it and stay patient! Just a truly outstanding buck!!!

Thanks everyone! I appreciate all the responses, and the boys really enjoy reading all of them.

Congrats on an awesome hunt, and great write up! Man, I had decided I wouldn't ever hunt Mexico with all the stuff going on down there, but man, this post makes me rethink that! Definately something I'll have to experience at least once! Great deer, and great story.

Wow - that's a surprise. As much money as hunting and fishing generates in this state via license, tag and application fees, you would think we'd have more than enough money to effectively fight poaching.

Holy Headshot, Batman! Did he drop right in his tracks? Congrats!!!

Great Job Ryan! Way to go on your first coues buck!!! That rocks buddy.