Coach

Holy cow, that's a serious rifle that young man is holding. Looks like a well-done custom job. And to be proficient with it between 350 - 500 yards, and past that, is amazing, given his age. Just goes to show, with enough practice and the right equipment, long shots can be ethical and rewarding. Congrats to Gabe. He has obviously earned some great trophies.

Love it! Way to get that young man out there learning the "finer things in life". Nothing like dusting a few clays with the old man. Thanks for sharing.

Nice! Finding a honey hole like that will pay out for a long time to come if you can keep from over-pressuring them. It's funny what you mention about not gutting them too close to the den. I just talked about that subject with a buddy a while back and we both had come to the conclusion that it can really mess with them if you clean them too close to a den/bedding area. Those little piggies are a lot more social and complex than some people give them credit for. Thanks for the story and pictures, now go get your son and dad into them. Nothing better than 3 generations hunting together.

I'm kind of with 308 on this, but as I said earlier on this thread, I did find the videos interesting and in some ways enlightening. I don't think you necessarily posted this topic with the idea of starting any kind of fight. To be honest, it's very similar to another recent post along the same lines by a very respected member of the coues hunting community, particularly this site. Only you were able to show actual footage of hunters attempting shots that they clearly weren't capable of in a real-life hunting situation. While you have some very valid points, and you do bring up a subject that we should all think about WRT our comfortable range, shooting under pressure vs. on a bench at the range, you can't expect to start a topic like this without ruffling a few feathers. Personally, I don't agree with some of the comments that were aimed directly at you - the shooters in all of those situation clearly weren't you, and you were pointing out, not so much what they did wrong, but the idea that the further the shot, the less likely the deer was to bolt after the first miss. That's a valid topic, IMO. But you have to be ready for some staunch criticism, which is fine if you have thick enough skin. We've all had our own mishaps in the field, and more than likely tried to help a buddy out who seemed to be able to shoot well at the range but sprayed bullets all over the hillside in an actual hunt. It happens, and we should be able to talk about that. Overall, I think the videos you provided were valuable, and important for people to see. Not everyone can make those long shots even in perfect conditions. Where I think you might have drawn fire is in some of the wording, regarding "is it fair to shoot xxx yards?". It's as fair for an accomplished rifleman to shoot a deer from 900 yards, when he knows how the animal is moving and where his or her bullet will hit as it is for the average joe or jane to shoot a deer at 15 yards with a bow, knowing how the animal is moving and where the arrow will hit. Some people spend a lot of time, effort and money to become proficient at ranges that others could not dream of. You can't put a cap on what the ethical shot distance is across-the-board for all hunters, because I guarantee you, there are some people who can shoot better at 600 yards, even 800 yards and beyond, than the average hunter can shoot at 300 yards. I've been shooting and reloading for a very long time, and my own personal "comfort zone" is less than 500 yards with most of my rifles. That's not to say that someone else who practices hard and aquires the skills of long range hunting isn't just as comfortable at 750 yards as I am at half that distance. "Fair" in this case, the way I take it, is whether the shot is ethical. And that means being confident in your equipment and abilities to make a clean, humane kill. You know when you pull the trigger or release an arrow if you are confident in the shot, or just hoping to connect out of luck. Bottom line, I appreciate your willingness to enter the spotlight, and take a lot of grief in the process, to illustrate how often some people over-estimate their abilities, and the impact that can have - again, assuming that was your intention. I'd bet anyone here has seen similar situations to the vids you posted, and it should be important for us to think about the idea of knowing what our comfortable, ethical range is, whether it's rifle, bow or muzzle loader. We have an obligation to know our own limitations and stick to those, even when it's tempting to "push the limit".

Awesome job! Those piggies aren't anybody's pushovers. You guys did well, and I'm really happy for Felix. Thanks for the great pictures and story, Scott.

I don't need a whole bunch but I would be interested in 4-6 medium-sized coil traps (like racoon size) if possible.

That was a very interesting (and entertaining) video. Thanks for posting it. As for the long-range shooting, as others have said, that horse has been beaten enough, but it was really cool to see the different reactions from the deer. Man, that last one, was crazy. You must have been a lot closer to the deer than the shooter. Seemed the impact and sound were virtually simultaneous. Did he even realize how far low he was hitting?

I never had the priveledge of meeting Mike, but my prayers go out to his family. What a tragic loss.

Funny how as we get older, we get more resistant to change. I'm having a tough time with both of the available skins. One is like a white-out, and the blue one is like an astronomy sight or something, with all the text jumping off such a dark background. Both make my eyes hurt with so much contrast, compared to black text of the light tan background we are used to. I know it's only been a day since the upgrade, and more and better skin options will be coming, so this certainly isn't intended badly toward Amanda, but I am looking forward to some skins with more nuetral/earth-tone type colors, and not as stark contrast between the background and text. However, thanks Amanda, for jumping on the more important issue of the illicit/porn stuff that was all over the place this morning. I appreciate you taking time off from javelina hunting to get that cleaned up so quickly.

Holy cow, Jed. I'll go on record today, that kinda stuff just doesn't seem to happen for us normal humans. How you guys keep doing stuff like that, I'll never know. Great job getting in that position to start with, and wow, getting it all on film. I think that's the part that gets me so envious. I took Matt out this morning, and between the videos he and I came up with, the whole family was sea-sick. Lots of great footage opportunity, but even I couldn't watch it afterward.

Very cool! I bet you're hooked now. Thanks for the story and pictures. That's super cool.

Thanks for the report, Brian. I was considering going out early this week but with the front moving in, and a pig hunt next weekend, it will probably be a couple weeks before I get down there.

Went to 27 today with my oldest son. We didn't see any javis, but saw lots of elk and tons of turkeys. One huge group of older toms were strutting and gobbling like crazy. I figured 27 might be a long shot for pigs, not an area that I've consistently seen them, but figured I'd give it a try, if nothing else, to learn the unit better. It was a fun day for both of us getting to see so much game and play with the thunder chickens, but didn't even find any good pig sign. Prolly the last tag I burn on 27 for piggies. I'll be out next weekend in a different area. Maybe it will be better.

Great job. I really enjoyed the story and pictures. Very cool.

Glad you added the picture. Looks like a very nice job!

Hold on, let me get some popcorn!

Another awesome video! I've really enjoyed all the vids you've posted. Great job. I wondered about the absence of the kill shot on video too. If you do put out a DVD, I want one!

Obviously, this is a subject that has a lot of interest, and a lot of good information. I've shot more than my share of rifles over many years and I've seen some interesting trends. Jack O'Connor was a pioneer of rifle hunting, reloading, ballistics research and wildcat experimentation just to name a few. He favored the .270 Winchester. He killed just about everything that walks with a .270. Roy Wetherby hunted the globe while designing "world-class" rifles and cartridges that redefined an entire industry. His favorite round was the .257 Wby Magnum, with which he harvested game around the world from light-skinned to some of the most dangerous. You can easily get wrapped up in the numbers, the ballistics charts, whatever. Bottom line, today, there are more options to hunters than ever before when it comes to high quality rifles and ammunition. You'll find your .270 camps, your .308 camps, your 7mm-08, 7mm mag camps, ultra-mag, short-mag, this and that until you can't take it any more. Here's my short summary: I find most "ultra" anything unappealing. Too much powder burns barrels out very quickly. The 7MM and 270 ultramag died off quckly because of this. Often as soon as the rifle is broken in, it's almost worn out. And aquiring the ability to shoot these guns at the range where the real "pay-off" occurs is at the cost of barrel life. I also don't care much for belted cartridges as they are a little harder to reload, and seem to have a shorter case life and are more suceptible to failure. There are a number of "old stand-by" rifles that have proven themselves for years. The 25-06, the .270 Win, the 7MM Win Mag which many long range rifles are based on, 7mm-08, and of course the .308 Win that has been an established "sniper riflle" caliber in our military since Viet Nam and even before. The british used .303 mausers when their life depended on them in war times and many more to put food on the tables when they got home. Given the history of great guns a bullets we now have to choose from, if I had to choose 3, here's what I would pick. .300 WSM, .270 WSM and either 25-06 Win or .257 WBY. As far as the gun, take your pick. Most "American" brands are manufactured overseas. Most Weatherbys come from Japan, the list goes on. I'd take an over-the-counter Savage 110, medium countour, accu-trigger .300 WSM and put it up against custom rifles all day long. Savage button-rifled barrels are renouned for accuracy, the "accu-trigger" completely redefined the idea of "factory" triggers, as they provide the kind of reliability, adjustability and precision that was once only available by custom gunshops. In addition, they were able to totally eliminate the dangers of most "custom" trigger modifications. Savage did something ground-breaking with their trigger system. Some of the old codgers on here might remember the idea of the old Hawkins style rifles. They had a "set trigger" and the actual trirgger. If you've seen an old Hawkins or TC .50 caliber muzzle loader, you know the idea. There are 2 triggers in the guard. The one in back "sets" the first one - meaning it puts the primary trigger a hair a way from firing. Savage took the idea of a set trigger, and the idea of a trigger-based safety (from Glock) to create a trigger that was actually a trigger within a trigger to create the "accu-trigger", which, in my opinion, totally changed the world for production rifles. In short, they created a trigger that could compete with custom jobs, "Jewell" and other after-market triggers, and gave it to the normal hunter, available at any WalMart, Cabelas or whowever sold mass-production rifles. So now you can buy a .300 wsm, .270 wsm with an incredibly accurate button-rifled barrel in either synthetic or wood for under $700 with a trigger that rivals what custom shops produced just 3 years ago, and still have cash left over for a great scope. And would you believe it, you can buy a Vortex rifle scope for a couple hundred bucks that is just as good, and has a better warranty, than Leopold, Nikon, Pentax etc. If ever there was a "buyer's market" for a solid hunting rifle, it is now. Just don't get too caught up in the ultra mags, euro-glass and gunshop triggers. You can get the same quality for a lot less money by doing your research.

Man, you guys really did have another amazing year! Congrats and great job with the stories and pictures.

"People like to see dynamic things- log on, take a quick peak at what's new and go on. " Exactly what the "View New Posts" feature does, as Amanda suggested. Give it a try.

Wow - that thing is just amazing! Great buck and huge congrats!

Very cool! I love the video.

Cool vid!

Man, I stayed away from this thread as long as I could. There is, without a doubt, a certain machismo in a lot of hunters these days that has to do with "long-range-hunting". It wasn't that long ago that a 400 yard shot at a deer with a rifle was considered extreme, or a 70 yard shot with a bow. In the past 2 days, I've had some random encounters with other hunters talking about effective range, etc that got me thinking about this again. Yesterday, I was preparing for a HAM hunt in 27 for Javelina with my grandfather's old Hawkins .50 cal. A buddy and I decided we would try one traditional black powder hunt. For us, that means no conical or sabot bullets, no fiber optics or magnified scopes. Basically, round ball, patch, iron sights and black powder. We relaxed the rules enough to allow for loose pyrodex or other synthetic powder. I was able to establish that within 50 yards I was competent with the cap-and-ball Hawkins, but to follow up with my 1858 Remington Navy pisotl( .44 cal cap and ball) I had to be inside 20 yards. While pounding away at the cinder pit with Grandad's old Hawkins and the repro 1858 rovolver, I met up with a guy waiting for part of the range (the part I was using). The guy was nice enough, and well intentioned, but all he could seem to talk about was long range shooting. How his 356 fps bow made 120 running yard shots OK, etc. He told me how his cousin was having a sweet 22-250 set up to take 900 yard shots at deer. Now, not wanting to come across as some "know it all" I had to ask, just what grain of bullet are you guys planning to shoot out of a 22-250 at 900 yards. He responded something like 45-50 grains. You know where the conversation goes from here - over 3200 fps, only drops x inches, yada yada - so I ask, <b>how much energy do you think that bullet has as 900 yards...</b>You would think I just insulted his mother. Fact remains, a .225 cal bullet at 45 grains might not even penetrate most game animals' skin at 900 yards regardless of the muzzle velocity. Of course, my line of questioning was dismissed by stories of grandpa X, taking a huge something or other at over 1000 yards back when things were simple. Another guy, just today, my brother-in-law, lives somewhere way in the West valley. Good guy, ended up in the white tanks area 140 yards from a nice muley buck during archery season. His buddies gave him a ton of crap for not taking the shot - 140 yards!!! I told him I'd be pissed if he DID take the shot - granted, he's around 7' tall maybe 320 pounds and pretty f'ing lean. I didn't say I'd kick his butt for it - LOL. His buddies told him just hold over by 4 to 6 feet....Go figure. My point is, there is a disturbing trend going on. Right now, technology is byassing skill levels, and people think they can buy "long-range-hunting" tools, but they aren't willing to put in the time and practice to make use of those tools, whether they're archery or rifles or even black powder. You can buy the technology today to shoot 120 yards with a bow, 1000+ yards with a rifle or 500 yards with a muzzle loader. However, that technology still depends on people. People who have an acellerated heart rate when the shot comes up, or who are shooting offhand, or any number of circumstances. Anything can and will go wrong at that point. I have nothing but admiration and respect for the guys who can consistently make tough, long yardage shots. My complaint is that for every hard-core guy out there who puts in the time and effort to extend their hunting range, is 8 guys who think they can buy the same proficiency by slapping down a credit card.

That's pretty cool, Clay. I like it. Just wondering, with a free mount would you look at a full sized javi, or maybe a bear rug? I just neve thought of doing a Javi rug. Regardless, I like your choice. I've never seen a Javi rug, and it turned out really nice. Kudos to Wild Heritage on a very good job.