Coach

I read an article about this a while back. The author's contention was that in a freshly cleaned barrel, all the copper fouling has been removed from the tiny microscopic indentions and pores in the steel. The first shot or two down the barrel fill these back in making a smoother, more consistent path down the barrel. In most cases the 2nd or 3rd through around the 9th would give optimal accuracy. I'm not sure how valid that is, but it made sense to me. Although I would suspect that the effect is generally too small for most people to notice under normal hunting conditions. That slightly too tall or too short rock with a jacket slung over it for a rest, elevated heart rate and heavy breathing, the gloves you didn't practice shooting with but are still wearing, the rush to get the shot off before the animal slips away, the cactus in your armpit while you are trying to lay prone - those are the types of things that generally have a noticable affect on field accuracy.

I think there are several reasons you're seeing a "tough crowd" on this issue. First off, the original post was formed as a question, but purposely angled at attacking a legal, ethical hunting approach. Secondly, the initial question, and all follow-up questions have been answered clearly and convincingly, yet it still rolls on. Youngbuck, back on page 1 had an excellent response. Just because some people like hunting a different way than you do, that's no reason to become devisive. I think it's been clarified that hunting bears with hounds isn't an unfair advantage and can be even more challenging than spot-and-stalk or calling. You're just seeing a community come together to support the legal hunting methods availble against one guy who feels that just because he likes to do it another way, that should be the ONLY way. In my experience that attitude usually invokes the type of passionate responses seen here. To echo Amanda's comments, there's no need to degrade the discussion by name calling, etc. Be passionate, be informed and be respectful of other hunters. Pretty simple, really. For what it's worth, I've never hunted bear with dogs, but I can see the appeal. I personally want to take a bear spot and stalk with archery equipment. That's my choice, and I don't want someone telling me I have to do it a different way, just because they think their way is the only way. On the other hand, I can only imagine the rush of riding mules behind baying hounds on a hot track. That sounds fun too - so why should be one way or the other, when you can experience both and decide for yourself which way is better - for you and leave it up to each hunter to decide which way is best for them?

Wow - how awesome is that??? The whole family out there getting it done! My favorite part..."At about 3 o'clock my mom glassed up my sisters buck". Very cool - congrats to your sister, and great job making it a whole-family endeavor.

Yep, they won it in soccer too....good programs up there with alot of great coaching and athletes. Congras Coach to another flawless season......we are comin after you next year though....now on to wrestling season where BR will have some great wrestlers as well.... Thanks NT - Hoping for a great wrestling season for you!

I wonder what they changed on the CRX 35 - that is one sweet bow.

Adding a few new pictures.. Snake... This guy was buzzing at us as we approached the deer on day 1. Not sure why, just liked this grasshopper. The skull on the way back to camp on day 2..

I'm getting caught up on all the great things going on here on CWT. All of a sudden, it hits me. One week from right now, I will be deep into coues country right along some smuggling routes with a bivy and a smoke pole, and my good friend, Greg. The area we'll be hunting is strictly walk-in, several miles from the nearest road. Life has gotten so hectic with a house remodeling job I've been doing myself, work, coaching some 9 year olds at football...I haven't even shot my muzzle loader in over a year, I'm worried about what water will be available, I'm totally unprepared for what might just be the hunt of a lifetime. It's hard to believe that next Saturday night will be my second night in a bivy eating Mountain House, hoping to find a water source we can filter while looking for coues deer. One thing I know, it is going to be an amazing experience. I'll do my best to take lots of pictures and chronicle what just might be one of the hardest hunts I've ever embarked on.

Hey Bill, I've got three youth hunters with the 1/27 youth tag. Normal years I would call this a challenge, this year it's going to be downright tough. I've got a couple of spots in 1 and one in 27 I feel really good about, but trying to get all 3 on birds is going to require reaching out a little. Mind if I tap into your knowledge as the hunt approaches?

Well, I'm interested. My youngest son will have his first big game tags ever this season, and he's not all that big up top. Anything that can help him focus on the shot is a good thing. Where do I learn a little more about this setup?

LOL, you didn't really think the guys who started this topic and jumped all over it would be here now talking about the game did you? We'll hear about officiating and fired coaches, and all that (probably on a differnet thread), but we won't see ONE Devil fan come on and say they just flat out lost this one. And the sure as heck won't discuss the fact that UofA didn't even have their starting QB in the game when it turned around. Still gloating a little.... He he.

I'm lost. Can you elaborate?

Well, you can probably tell now by all the great input here, this one is going to come down to personal preference. Numbers-wise, they're very close. The pros and cons are pretty much negilgible for both. I switched from a .300 WBY to a .300 WSM and found I liked the WSM better. Different rifle, so it's hard to compare "apples to apples". I reload and found my .300 WBY to be more finicky - I've heard the same about .300 RUM. I think if you get either of the those two (WBY and RUM) to like a certain load, you're in a good place. But both are belted Magnums, which some find harder to resize and reload. The .300 Win Mag is also a belted cartridge, but it is based on the .375 H&H, whereas the .300 RUM (and I think all RUM) is based on the .404 Jeffrey. The concept behind any "Magnum" offering is stick more powder behind the same projectile. As I'm sure you can deduce, the .375 H&H and the .404 Jeffrey were designed as "super big game" loads meant primarily for African game. How many big scopes do you seen on African hunter's guns? Many are open sight double rifles, some have 4x, because the game is usually close, usually dangerous and requires a heavy bullet behind a lot of powder to knock it down. Most of the super magnums are designed on these powder-hungry cases, but necked down to put that power and energy into longer range shots. The .300 WSM is a little different in that it sticks more powder in a shorter, fatter casing. Not being a physicist, I think the idea is you burn the same quantity of powder putting absorbed pressure more on the barrel than the bolt, and doing it quickly without building excess pressure. So, what does all this mean? Not much to be honest. Your dead deer on the ground, meat in the freezer, head on the wall, whatever, is not going to come down to whether you shoot A vs. B, in the vast majority of cases. If you find a gun you feel comfortable with and can shoot accurately, 90% of hunting situations, the gun and bullet will take care of the killing, and that's .243 through the super magnums at ranges under 400 yards, beyond which, most people don't practice enough to worry about. Super long range guys shooting larger animals have to really be concerned about foot pounds of energy at point of impact over 800 yards, blah blah blah, I'll likely never be a good enough shot to be concerned about some of the minute details that go into which round is better at those ranges on certain animals. A .270 will kill almost everything most of us will hunt at ranges we are capable of. Some of the magnums give you a little more energy with a little less accuracy (generally). I've settled on .300 WSM, .270 WSM for pretty much everything I or my kids will hunt. I can load those two up or down enough to cover anything from pigs to elk, and have them hit where they are aimed without blowing my kids' shoulders off. Also have dad's .270 Win. a heavy 25-06 and an AR in .223 when recoil considerations take over ballistics, and all have killed game. Shoot what you like and can hit with - don't worry about the gun as much as the time you are having with friends and family, and ultimately the skills required to get into place for the shot.

24A Archery Pig (2nd Choice). My kids cleand up. All 3 got 1 & 27 youth turkey, the two oldest got 22 & 23 Youth Javi, and my youngest got 23 general Javi. Had to put him in for general since I'll have to find him a field day between his birthday (Jan 28) and opening day, Feb 24...That could be tricky...

Anyone watching the Jackets vs. Seton Catholic? Show Low advanced today against Florence - looks like a repeat for State Champs, Jackets vs. Cougars. Unless Seton changes thing dramatically in the 2nd half it's another small town rivalry for the State title. Man, does it get any better than this???

Very nice indeed! That is one world class buck. I hope the hunter really gets what a truly rare giant he has. Congrats to the hunter and guides. What a magnificent coues buck!

Catclaw, what did you mean by "The Perfekt hunters are not even the same type of boot." Not trying to instigate anything jut curious. I've had a lot of boots, usually Italian made Cabelas, and most did very well, and the Perfekt Hunters have been great for me. The next time I drop big money on a pair of boots I'll be looking hard at the Kenetreks, but I can't say in any way that Meindl dummied down the Perfeckt hunters for Cabelas to meet a price point. I'm pretty picky about gear, and one thing I will never skimp on is boots. The Meindl/Cabelas Perfekt Hunter boots are in a very short list of things I've bought for hunting that actually exceeded my expectations. Maybe I read your post wrong, but did you have a bad experience with these boots?

Wow, very nice bucks indeed! Especially for left over tags. Great job.

Haven't tried them myself but has a buddy that swears by that exact boot. He loves them. My favorite boots so far are the Cabela's/Meindl Perfekt Hunter. I'm guessing the Perfekt hiker would be very good too for a little lighter boot.

Wow SirRoyal - love the mass! LOL azslim - you're right. I've seen these munching down on prickly pear like it was lettuce. Even cholla, with their whole face covered in it...I think they've evolved to not have nerve endings above the neck.

3B is practically in my back yard...Man that's a tough one. There are lots of elk in 3B, and at times there are some very good elk in 3B. I always seem to keep it on tap as a second choice, but it's not what I would consider a "highly desired" unit, by AZ standards. I'll put it this way, I know a few guys that are locals and grew up here. They know the unit like the back of their hand and are very good hunters. Some of them have had the early tag multiple times, but I haven't seen them take very big bulls. I drew it a long time ago and ate my tag, but that was primarily because I had just started bow hunting knew less than nothing - I was utterly clueless. On the other hand, it was 3B that just a couple of years ago had so much controversy about the hunter who had the "governor's tag" or auction tag or whatever they're calling it now. He paid a lot of money for the statewide year-round tag, hired a very well respected guide that specializes in other areas, and they ended up shooting a very big bull in 3B. Shot too close to houses it was alleged (and I *think* proven in court). Point being, there are some real toads in there some years. I just think on average, smaller bulls than surrounding units like 1 and 3C.

I've got the game on DVR, haven't watched it yet, but when I read about it this morning I got a big smile. Not so much that the Cat's won or the devils lost, but because of all the smug devil fans and their borderline sociopathic hatred for the UofA. I mentioned on another thread, I graduated from UofA, but I actually root for ASU when they're playing anyone but UofA. I would much rather see any AZ team come out on top, especially against USC, CA, and Oregon. Call it state pride, whatever. My kids could end up at any of theses schools. The strange thing is you never hear that from ASU fans - they cheer when UofA loses no matter who they lose to. That seems a little strange to me. What makes someone get so riled up about that rivalry? What's even stranger, a good chunk of the rabid ASU superfan cat haters didn't even go to ASU... go figure.

BTW, the game is on live now at http://www.aia365.com/. We're watching it on the big screen through the PS3. Freaking awesome.

Wish I could - that's a sweet truck.

I tend to agree with DesertBull on this one. Savage actions aren't as good as Rem, but their triggers and barrels are very good. I own a couple Savages and no Remingtons. I think Savage is way underrated, in general. To the original question, Boyd's makes some really good stocks for Savage rifles. You might look at a laminate thumbhole stock, put an inexpensive, but quality (Vortex) scope on it and prove that you can have a comfortable sub-moa rifle that costs well under a grand to set up.

Funny question for you - did you find a lot of body fat on your deer? The reason I ask is, my NM buck had a huge layer of fat on his back-end especially. I always am amazed with coues deer in relatively dry conditions without a lot of obvious forage, always seem to be very well fed and even have built up fat reserves like that. You would think a little desert deer like that would have little to no fat... Anyway, not trying to derail your thread - just found that kind of interesting. Glad you guys are enjoying the "fruits" of the hunt. We ate up all our backstrap right away and it was phenomenal. Gave some bottom round to my inlaws and they were floored by how good it was. They cut it thin and wrapped it with bacon. Hard to go wrong with that approach.