archerycrazy

http://www.azgfc.org/guest1.htm This a link to a guest post on Commissioner Freeman's new website. It's a good read. George

Adamantly!

Ryan, AWF supported the WCC, the organiztion that orignated the plates long ago. A couple of years ago the WCC affiliated with AZSFWC simply to keep the plate fund going. WCC was in trouble due to lack of participation and probably would not have survived. I have had an orignal plate #WA0006 since about 2003/4. We need to ensure that the plate fund survived because the funding goes to wildlife conservation. George

AWF is a GREAT group, I accept that they have never had any ties to AZSFW or AZSFWC. I just came across this on their website http://www.azwildlife.org/ht/d/sp/i/60463/pid/60463 and thought they might want to remove it, it happens to be on an obscure page. Am I missing something?...maybe I am I am going to join this group myself and was not implying they were anything other than people that would be welcome anytime at my campfire. I really appreciate the time they spent to create such a well formulated rebuttal. Ryan

AWF has never been affiliated with AZSFW. They probably saw something that we didn't or AZSFW didn't want them George

I learned yesterday that Coconino Sportemen have ended their affiliation with AZSFW, AZSFWC and WCC. Today, I learned that Hunt of a Lifetime has end their affiliation as well. George

Keep in mind that BPJ was probably a participant in the revision of HB 2072. The question now is will he endorse the revision here? George

Javihammer, You have posted a list of organiztions that support kermit. It looks like AES, NWTF and YVRGC not longer support for one reason or another. My question is, Do the organiztions listed as currently supporting "Kermit" still support HB 2072 and the organiztion that continues to make the effort to move it forward? It appears that AES, NWTF AND YVRGC have eliminated support for "Kermit" George

AZSFW tried to backdoor us with HB 2072 and we killed it in within 4 days. The meeting today was another backdoor attempt. They (AZSFW) will do everythig they can to get something like this passed this year. There are seval mehtods that they may use, 1. A "Strike Everyting:" bill in either chamber. 2, An Amendement to another bill and call it an "Omnibus" Bill 3. A floor amanedment. Most of us may not be alerted early, on these actions. However everything will become more public if anything moves from one chamber to the other. With a "Strike Everything" bill you will not see HB 2072. You will only see the new number of the bill that has been stricken. I can not explain all of this here. I will do the best that I can to ensure that you all have the most current information that I can find. Do not rely on me for your information. Learn how to do the research yourselves. George PM's may be the best way to communicate.

If you thought that HB 2072 was dead for this year, you are mistaken. As we discuss this now, the organization behind it (AZSFW) is working behind closed doors on a "Strike Everything" bill that could appear in either chamber with a new bill number. You could contact the Governor's staff, but you will only be speaking to a few. We each have one Senator and two representatives for each of our districts. Those are the individuals that we need to be working with. They are the ones that vote on every bill before it goes to the Governor. Votes are more important than money. To my knowlede the meeting was requested by Suzanne Gilstrap and Alan Hamberlin. Two Commissioners were invited to attend. The Chair Norm Freeman was excluded. None the less, the message from the Commissioners was 'you're on your own'. The Commission did not and does not support 2072. Also, the Department was not invited. If there is a call for a rally at the Capitol, I will be there in full camo. If you are a member of an organization that is still affiliated with AZSFW, contact your leadership. If AZSFW xcontinues to lose affiliates they will no longer be able to claim that they represent most of us.

On the ADA website, I see nothing after the meeting Tuesday. The only thing I see is a raquest to forward comments on HB 2072 to Amanda. That request is just a little bit outdted. It appears that communciation with the membership of the ADA has been dropped in the lap of Amanda. Right about now, I think that she is overburdened. John, as President should be capable of drafting a letter to the entire membership and have it sent to the entire membership of the ADA. At this time I will give them a break. They are focused on their banquet tomorrow as they should be. Let's wait until next week to really expect anything. George

Don't for one minute beleive that HB 2072 or the concept behind it is dead. Until this session is done we are in jeopardy. There are numerous ways to bring it back and sneak it though at least one chamber in the legislature. If they don't get what they want this session, they will spend the next 10 months working on soething similar to sneak by us next year. George

I am pleased to report that a great deal of respect and control was shown on both sides. Some may have thought that a real donnybrock may occurr. Sorry guys it didn't happen. Just candid discussion among real sportsmen and women. I will not attempt to go into the details. George

The meeting should last until just before the ADA meeting begins at 6:30. It'll be okay to pull up a chair at any time during the meeting. George

I found the following on the Bowsite Big Game forun this evening regard BGF/SFW. It is very long but well worth reading. As I get older (56 in a few days) I'm starting to see things differently. My interest in "all things hunting" and how I now perceive them and how they affect us, is the result of watching and listening to Randy Newberg of On Your Own Adventures. He is an advocate for all hunters and is well versed on the inner workings of the Wolf Issue. He is also a strong advocate for RMEF and has done some PR work for them. He is currently at the sports show In SLC. The "money maker" for SFW. The following are his comments. I don't think he will mind my posting them here. I doubt he would do it himself unless there was a topic already in place, he doesn't seek publicity. It's a very good read, well written and since I'm posting it here, obviously made an impact on me. A link to the thread: http://onyourownadventures.com/hunttalk/showthread.php?t=249798 ============ Quote: Originally Posted by Dinkshooter View Post Anyone else thinking Lawnboy, Fin and SFW are having dinner tonight? //// Well, Fin was there. Was kindly treated to the dinner by the MDF folks. Left once the music started. Wonder if I was the only person laughing at the irony of Shane Mahoney making one of his finest presentations. In that presentation, he bragged about the US, our history and how the principles that made our country so admired by others (Mahoney being Canadian) was achieved by keeping true to the ideals of the commoner. Then bringing that forward to how conservation in this country was founded by involving all citizens as equal participants and equal beneficiaries. Following his long, but very eloquent speech was an auction where Denny Austad paid $150K+ for the Antelope Island mule deer tag, along with many other tags selling for over $40K. The usual suspects bidding on behalf of their clients who have found a way to not have to wait in the line, and by continuing to buy these tags, finance the operations that continue to provide them a path to the front of the line, any time they want to buy it. Just seemed weird to see the commoners cheering as their wildlife bounty was once again, sold time and again, to the same people, year after year, all under the guise of conservation. I wondered how many, among the hundreds in that room, noticed the irony of that. Maybe I have become too jaded in my views. Following the auction, I thanked my hosts and walked across the street, on up to my room. On my way, I wondered what the state of hunting will look like if those of us who have a platform to speak out about what we are seeing happen in this western states, fail to do so. If we sit on our hands, worried about pressure placed on our sponsors by those who we might challenge in their actions and motives. Tomorrow night will be more of the same. If anything, they save the best of the best for the Saturday night auction. They will sell another Henry's rifle deer tag. One sold tonight. I am not sure how many total rifle tags are issued for the Henrys, but a good percentage of them were sold today. Yesterday I watched the former Director of AK Fish and Game, an SFW plant who resigned when accused of 12 hunting violations, walk the show floor. Then watch the AK Bison Governors tag get sold this weekend, along with the AK Governors Koyokuk moose tag. I wonder how much of that money will do any good for AK bison or moose, or if the funds will get siphoned off in selling commissions of 10% and allowed administrative fees of who knows how much? Yet, we can rest well, knowing that another "savior of conservation" broke out his check book to make sure he would not be taking up any space in the waiting line with the rest of us. Went and brushed my teeth an extra time tonight, but still have a strange taste in my mouth. Probably best that I declined my invitation to a private cocktail party where all winning bidders and other VIPs from this evening would be invited to attend and socialize. Decided to save my socializing for those folks who stop by the booth tomorrow to will tell me how many years they have applied in UT, and have yet to draw their resident elk tag. ///// I am at the awards dinner. The food is great, but I think I will puke if this continues. I just learned that BGF/SFW introduced legislation that resulted in wolf delisting. Thankfully, most are not clapping as many know the truth. ///// Following dinner, I left. I left disappointed by so many who sat silent while this ridiculous circus act transpired. Who went on stage and participated in a partisan pile of deceit beyond what most minds could even conjure. I spent the last hour and a half writing my thoughts on the debacle, but figured I better sleep on this one before I post it. Too disgusted right now to post something so critical of those who were accomplices to this assault on conservation. ///// As I stated previously, following dinner, I left. Not sure if I was more disappointed or disgusted. Disappointed in those who did nothing when the opportunity was presented, or disgusted by the counterfeit statements provided by Ryan Benson of Big Game Forever. Benson's mash was a frontal assault on the history of what hunting and conservation have always been. A craft of partisanship that drags hunting and conservation even further into the ugly abyss of politics. Truly disgusting for anyone who separates their politics from the more important topics of hunting and conservation. He carefully selected words to give everyone the impression that it was H.R 509, a bill sponsored by the handpicked pals of BGF/SFW, as being the reason for MT and ID getting delisting. That bill, the SFW/BGF silver bullet, was "Dead on Arrival." It was introduced in January 2011 and has not even had a committee vote, let alone a floor vote or a full Congressional vote. A bill that was dead before the ink dried on the first draft. A bill that is dead in a committee was provided as the reason we have delisting. Laughable by any standard. He thanked all 60 sponsors of that empty piece of legislation. Then Benson went on to say that without these brave members of Congress who sponsored their bill, the delisting in MT and ID could not have happened. And that the recent delisting in MN, WI, and MI would not have been possible. What? Someone please tell me I heard him incorrectly. Nope, he connected the dots in that manner. All of this, while he failed to tell the audience that Big Game Forever and Sportsman For Wildlife were doing everything in their power to kill the real bill that got delisting in Montana and Idaho - the Simpson-Tester rider attached to the budget bill of April, 2011. He never used the words Simpson or Tester. The groups Benson is associated with worked to kill that rider from the budget bill. They got caught red handed and have been in defense mode ever since. If they had succeeded in killing that bill, we would not be hunting wolves in MT and ID. We would not have delisting in MN, WI, and MI. BGF/SFW claimed Simpson-Tester would sabotage the delisting possibility in MN. WI, MI. Yet, even though they worked to kill MT and ID delisting, and they were 100% wrong about the outcome in the Great Lakes states, Benson rambled on that BGF/SFW and their friends were the reason we have this delisted status. He used his Harvard pedigree wordsmithing to make a mockery of the real work that got delisting in all of these states. And as always is the case with SFW/BGF, he took credit for things they did not do, and in this case, took credit for the results of a delisting bill they tried to stop. He thanked a long list of people who have done nothing for the average hunter or for conservation. And he purposefully omitted those who did the heavy lifting. No big surprise there. Benson did not mention the two people who stuck their necks out and actually got us delisting and started the momentum for the Great Lakes states. Representative Mike Simpson, a Republican from Idaho, who is the "Simpson" part of the Simpson-Tester bill that gave us delisting. Benson made no mention of Senator Jon Tester, a Democrat from Montana, the other sponsor of that rider. It was that rider that ticked off all the wolf wingnuts, putting them at each other’s throat. It was that rider that gave MT and ID our wolf seasons, and set the path where the enviros would fold up the tent in MN, WI, MI. Yet, he thanked Representative Denny Rehberg, a Montana Republican opposing Senator Tester in the November election. Benson failed to mention that Rehberg did nothing, absolutely nothing, to help the process of wolf delisting in Montana. A guy they look to as their plant in the Senate, if they can get him elected, the same way they viewed Corey Rossi as their plant in Alaska hunting politics. Rossi is now the FORMER AK G&F director, currently facing at last count, 12 hunting violations. Rehberg is a Congressional member with a track record that is not very kind to resident Montana hunters. A guy who only now in an election year is trying to look the part of a hunter by hanging out with MT SFW and Montana Shooting Sport Association extremists. Yesterday, SFW had a big fund raiser down here in Utah for Denny. Ryan Benson invited me to join him and the Congressman. I was busy. Rehberg was then walked around the building, being introduced to “Friends of SFW and BGF.” And we wonder why hunting and conservation has become so politicized. Spiels such as Benson provided is why. Benson's work last night was amateur hour when compared to the stirring appeal by Shane Mahoney the previous evening; a dissertation on the history of that got us to this point in conservation history. A true reflection on history, honesty, and commitment to what is right. The two presentations and their presenters seemed in stark contrast in terms of knowledge, sincerity, and expertise on the topic at hand. And, it showed. We expect as much from SFW and BGF. They are without a doubt the most self-congratulatory group to ever hit the landscape of the west, disguised as hunting and conservation groups. Willing to use all tactics and deceit to spin the truth or to shower credit away from those deserving of accolades To have others stand silent, paraded up on that stage, participating in the theatrics, all the while knowing this kind of fairy tale would be presented tonight, is my greatest source of disappointment. Those who let their good names be drawn through the mud by some backhanded political rant, is beyond disappointing. At least to those of us who had hope for the potential and promise that could have been. Silence while this kind of fable is pawned off as truth, results in accomplice that is unbecoming of the voice and platform some have. Some were on that stage, blissfully ignorant of the facts. So removed from the battlefield, that they know not what team wears which uniform. Happy to be there and thinking they were helping the cause. Others are fully aware of the facts. They were involved in many of the same discussions. They were included on emails, phone calls, and were asked to lobby on the issue. It is the behavior of those knowledgeable of the truth that is so disappointing. Those who were aware of the deceit being spewed, yet stood on the stage, looking almost to be in pain, knowing in their hearts and minds, what was unfolding while they posed there. Truth is truth. It cannot be changed. It can be spun, and such is the manner by which politics handles the truth. Some being far more talented at spinning the truth than telling the truth. And as much as truth is truth; leaders lead, and lemmings follow. It became very clear today that some would prefer to be lemmings while following those who will lead them to them further away from the historical values that got us here. Anyone; politician, conservation group, or business, that is tying their boat to the SFW/BGF ship, might want to take a look around at the wreckage now drifting up on the beach. Wreckage sanctioned and sponsored by BGF/SFW. And hopefully, followed by even more wreckage than can be salvaged by the leaders of that crew. Food for though for tomorrow and as we move forward. George

Due to comments that I have seen here and on other sites, I have increased the reservation to 15 and changed the time to 5 PM. I would like to keep our discussion to solutions without turning this into an ADA/AZSFW bashing party. I think that it would be counterproductive to go into the ADA meeting with all guns blazing. If we did that, they will get defensive and not listen to us. More later as I get prepared for tomorrow. George

Ask for archerycrazy when you get there. I hope to be there by 5 PM. George

I just made a reservation for 10 at 5:15 PM. So far I have krp, metau, runnignbird, javihammer, coues hunter, chef and two from tah plus myself and one other from YVRGC. If more of you on tghis thread are inte4rested please let me know ASAP so that I can make the necessary increase. Thanks George

The two sentence apology from AZSFW is unacceptable. They do not state that they will never try something like HB 2072 in the future. They do not state that they will be completely transparent regarding future legislation. They are focused on hiding their efforts from the anti hunting crowd, while they hide their efforts from sportsmen as if they don’t trust us. Their four and one half page justification is also unacceptable. They focus on only six species. The Arizona Game and Fish Department (AZGFD) have a trust responsibility to protect all species and their habitat. To focus only on those species we are likely to pay to hunt is unreasonable. All species have an effect on our environment. Even wolves, mountain lions and mice have some beneficial effect whether we like them or not. The AZGFD has a delicate balance to maintain. Sportsmen go after them from one corner, while environmentalists go after them from a different corner. The explanation from AZSFW highlights the large increase in the department’s budget over a sixteen year period and the decrease in tags. What occurred in the economy during that same time? Maybe the cost of most everything more than doubled and we finally provided our wildlife managers a long overdue wage increase. Have we had a severe drought along with increased predation? Yes. Did the drought affect only the six species that AZSFW focuses on? No. The nongame species are survivors. With less high grass, you have less area for the young we want to grow to hide in and survive in is severely reduced. With regard to access, is it a problem? Yes. The problem will only increase if we start to pay land owners for access. If you pay owner one for access because he locked his gates and his neighbor, owner two has kept his open, what is owner two likely to do? Lock his gates and wait for his check. I have learned over the years, that the most effective way to communicate sportsmen’s issues and garner support, is to speak directly to the Commission or Department personnel, your legislators and your fellow sportsmen. AZSFW left out most of those options. George

Today, I got my hands on an advance copy of an Open Letter to sportsmen from AZSFW. It contains a short apology for keeping us in the dark regarding HB 2072. It continues with 4 1/2 pages of justification for the bill. It took over a month to come out with this letter. How long did they work on the bill before it was filed? It almost appears that they think they are better qualified to manage our wildlife than the Game and Fish Departemnt. George

Due to HB 2072 and the Weiers Memo discussions, it appears that a huge rift has developed in our community. There has been a lot of finger pointing and name calling. Some justified and some not so much. I am not chastizing anyone. We all have our own opinions and different ways to express them. It is now time to end those discussions and focus on how we reunite our community. If we remain fractured, the anti's will overrun us and win. I ask that all who became involved in the discussions on 2072 and the Weiers Memo to provide meaningful well thoughtout suggestions, so that we can move forward and learn from our experiences. Those who sat on the sidelines and watched us are welcome to provide input. I for one would hope to see AZSFWC be reorganized under a new name and completely new leadership. It must have absolutely no affiliation with AZSFW. I know that I may get slammed for my thoughts, I am prepared to alter them or defend them if constructive recommendations can be provided. I did not and still do not agree with the decision that the Commission arrived at. I am however prepared to work to take corrective action. Ok guys and gals, you are mad but engaged. Let's come up with something that we can all get behind. George

It looks like a number of us want to get together before the ADA meeting. If there are going to be more than a few of us, we will need to make reservations at The Fish Company so that we can all sit down together. I suggest 5 to 5:15 PM in order to have enough time to discuss the issues issues. I'll need to make a reservation by Saturday afternoon. I ask that all who are interested post your intent here so that I can get a close head count. I will give my $10. each to Amanda and Kent at that meeting. George