WhtMtnHunter

Sorry. I don't live in Phoenix. I guess I should ask why? I have never been a member of the ADA nor attended one of their meetings. Why would they care what I think and vice versa? Does ADA=CAPAZ/CAP/AZSFW/ABC/XYZ(lot's of CAPITAL letters in these groups!)? I'm probably just better off saving my time, energy, and money for the group that represents the other 98% of sportsmen and women, ie. my legislators. This is probably better for them too, as now they can justify their actions by saying "only 14 people cared to show up to our meeting" instead of 15. So to get it straight NONE of the money generated by the tags will actually be able to fight the political fight that they say we desperately need money to fight? All the money generated by the tags will go to the education side of things and then we just hope the rich guys donate a bunch of money to CAPAZ to be able to fight the political stuff? It's a win-win! The rich guys from back east get their yearly auction tags in unit 9(win for them)! And maybe they will give some money to fight the political causes(win for us). But they don't come here to hunt lions anyways, so won't bother them if we lose the lion fight here! And when we lose the lion hunts they still get to keep their elk, deer, and sheep hunts. I'm sure it will work out great. We are lucky to not only have 1 group working on our behalf, but this morning we now actually have 2! CAPAZ and now CAP. This thing looks awesome! LOL Do you know what lions eat? Yes, I know what lions eat. It cost me $15 for my yearly tag, and I tried to get this one after I found his fresh kill, but he only came in at night after. They still manage to give out 3000+ coues permits in this unit. I've been lucky to see dozens of lions all across the state. You're right, I've never seen one eat an auction tag...

So to get it straight NONE of the money generated by the tags will actually be able to fight the political fight that they say we desperately need money to fight? All the money generated by the tags will go to the education side of things and then we just hope the rich guys donate a bunch of money to CAPAZ to be able to fight the political stuff? It's a win-win! The rich guys from back east get their yearly auction tags in unit 9(win for them)! And maybe they will give some money to fight the political causes(win for us). But they don't come here to hunt lions anyways, so won't bother them if we lose the lion fight here! And when we lose the lion hunts they still get to keep their elk, deer, and sheep hunts. I'm sure it will work out great. We are lucky to not only have 1 group working on our behalf, but this morning we now actually have 2! CAPAZ and now CAP. This thing looks awesome! LOL

It's called "bait and switch". They want to be like Utah SFW, admitted it in the first podcast. The final draft of this deal will include them keeping at least 70% of the money generated from the tags.

Wow. The guy on the podcast was right, you guys really do need a good spokesman like Don Peay because the ones on this thread aren't cutting it. There are 275,000 hunters in this state. The 3 groups supporting this maybe number 5,000-7,000(and i'll bet a majority of those don't support this either). That about 2-3%. Maybe if you worked to get those numbers up over 10% you wouldn't need welfare auction tags. The title of this thread is "unit wide raffle and auction tags" is it not?

Wait a minute. Let me see if I have this right. CAPAZ spokesman stated "For the past year CAPAZ has been working to deny the HSUS signature gatherers from collecting the 151,000 + signatures they needed to qualify their initiative." The past year. However at least 2 of the CAPAZ members, Rich Williams VP and Charlie Kellly Treasurer, are also on the commissioner selection board. They are picking, or have picked, the commissioners(including one sworn in last month) that will basically be deciding the fate of this proposal. Am I the only one to see at least somewhat of a conflict of interest here? In the interest of ethics and transparency shouldn't they resign from one or the other position immediately, if not sooner? https://www.azgfd.com/agency/commission/commission-board/

So it's easier and more beneficial to go through the commission/legislative process and get more raffle/auction tags that directly compete with the current habitat tags(greatly diminishing their value), than to try and alter their current use status? Interesting.

If this is the biggest threat facing the future of hunting. Maybe the following orgs could donate 1 of their tags back to the cause? How about rotating(yearly) 3 of the existing raffle tags and 3 of the existing auction tags to the cause? Three tags for each of the following 10 Arizona big game species were allocated: pronghorn antelope, bighorn sheep, black bear, buffalo, elk, javelina, mountain lion, mule deer, Coues white-tailed deer and turkey. If you are interested in pursuing one of these tags, the following is a list of the organizations selected and how they will be making the tag(s) available to the public: Arizona Antelope Foundation (AAF) – Awarded three tags: two pronghorn antelope tags and one bear tag. One antelope and the bear tag are to be auctioned at the AAF banquet (date pending). One antelope tag is to be auctioned at the Arizona Elk Society Banquet in March 2010. Contact: www.azantelope.org . Arizona Bowhunter’s Association (ABA) – Awarded three tags: one each for bear, buffalo and javelina. All tags to be auctioned at the ABA 2010 annual banquet. Contact: www.arizonabowhunters.org. Arizona Big Game Super Raffle (AZBGSR) – Awarded 10 tags, one tag for each species. Raffle tickets sold all year, drawing to be held in summer 2010. Contact: www.arizonabiggamesuperraffle.com. Arizona Deer Association (ADA) – Awarded three tags, one each for mule deer, Coues white-tailed deer, and mountain lion. All tags to be auctioned at the ADA annual fundraiser. Contact: www.azdeer.org. Arizona Desert Bighorn Sheep Society (ADBSS) – Awarded three tags, two bighorn sheep tags and one mountain lion tag. The Mexicana subspecies tag to be auctioned at the Wild Sheep Foundation (formally FNAWS) convention in Reno, Nev. in February 2010, the Rocky Mountain subspecies tag and the mountain lion tag will be auctioned at the ADBSS banquet in March 2010. Contact: www.adbss.org. Arizona Elk Society (AES) – Awarded two tags, one elk tag and one buffalo tag. Both tags to be auctioned at the AES fundraising banquet in March 2010. Contact: www.arizonaelksociety.org. Mule Deer Foundation (MDF) – Awarded three tags, one each for mule deer, Coues white-tailed deer and javelina. Both deer tags to be auctioned at the MDF 2010 National Convention in Salt Lake City, Utah in February 2010. The javelina tag is to be raffled at the Arizona chapter’s fundraiser and banquet (date pending). Contact: www.muledeer.org. National Wild Turkey Federation (NWTF) – A warded two turkey tags. One turkey tag to be auctioned at the NWTF 2010 Annual National Convention in Nashville, Tenn. in February 2010. One turkey tag to be raffled or auctioned by the Arizona Chapter of the NWTF (date pending). Contact: www.nwtf.org. Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation (RMEF) – Awarded one elk tag. Tag to be auctioned at the 26th Anniversary Elk Camp Convention in Reno, NV, March 2010. Contact: www.rmef.org.

Agree 100% that these groups think that somehow by allowing predators to thrive, nature will balance itself out without any help. They always fail to realize the impact that man has had on the environment which is why it makes no sense. This whole discussion has made me realize what a tightrope the average hunter walks in society. On the left we have groups that constantly assault our ability to own guns, to hunt game, and to manage our wildlife via the ballot box. On the right we have groups that are dedicated to selling our public land and hunting tags for quick profit. It's really upsetting that just a few weeks after we rid ourselves of the left, that the right rears up and attacks from their angle. As far as this proposal I try to look a few years ahead and figure out possible outcomes. This proposal is based on the pure conjecture that HSUS is back in 2 years. Let's assume this proposal goes through and look at possible outcomes in 2 years. There is no way to say that there is `100% certainty that HSUS will be back in 2 years. There is also no way to say that chance is 0%. Personally I think the odds of them coming back are in the 20-25% range. You might say 75% so let's just assume it is a 50/50 chance. There are 3 possible outcomes at this point. 1. HSUS decides not to pursue the ban again in 2 years. This would render the proposal useless and will have been a waste of hundreds of trophy tags and millions of dollars. 2. HSUS decides to try again and wins this time. This would render the proposal useless and will have been a waste of hundreds of trophy tags and millions of dollars. 3. HSUS decides to try again and loses. This would perhaps shine a positive light on the proposal. So there ultimately is a 66% (2 in 3, actually closer to 75% when you factor in the original 50/50 odds)chance that this proposal will have absolutely no meaningful difference in any outcome in 2 years. 1 in 3 odds it will have "some" impact. I don't like those odds when the tradeoff is hundreds of tags and millions of dollars, and the permanent entrenchment of AZSFW folks in our game department similar to what has happened in Utah. Just my opinion on things!

I completely understand this point of view and it has some merits. However how do we know HSUS will be back in 2 years? There is no way of knowing that first and foremost. Second, why is 5 million the magic number? What if after all this we still lose? Do we get the tags back in 2 years or will they ask for more tags so they can get more money? Obviously they will want more tags, plain and simple. Furthermore, Just because lion hunting is banned does not mean that they overrun the state. AZGFD will still have the ability to kill them when and where needed. California kills hundreds of lions each year even with their ban. As far as Utah, they give out literally hundreds or thousands of auction, raffle, and landowners tags every year as they have alot more game and habitat than AZ does. The one unique thing about Arizona, that separates it from most surrounding states, is that is has no landowner tags and very few auction/raffle tags. This is more about letting the rich guy that flies his leer jet in from Naples, FL the ability to get out of line, pay 30k, and hunt elk every year in the best elk state in the US. The guides and rich non-residents love this proposal as it totally circumvents the draw process. The rest of us get fewer tags and no guarantee it will even make a difference.

If they are truly transparent and spent tons of money saving us from HSUS, then open their current books and show us how much money was involved. I am sure we would all be happy to chip in and pay them back. Then they can be made whole again and go away. Deal?

It's a pretty simple concept...Our wildlife is not for sale! So when they get 200 tags and 5 million, then lose to HSUS in 2 years are they going to suspend the program? Or are they gonna suddenly need more tags and more money? I'll let you figure it out. It's a terrible idea 6 years ago, and a terrible idea now.

well that shows the two guys with 23 didnt apply together. So if the guy with 24 didnt draw how the heck did they guy with 23 not draw after that? I've never heard for certain but I was under the impression that if you apply for a hunt and you're in the bonus pass for both you get your first choice. Wouldn't make sense to give someone their second choice because after all it's their second choice not their first. No way two guys with top points didnt have their credit cards ready to be charged. Yeah. I agree. I am guessing that they are non-residents who plan to go guided. I think 7 out of 10 people with 23 points last year were non-residents. And after waiting for 20+ years, the dry winter along with their selected guide, swayed them not to take the tag. Probably figured after this long might as well wait another year or two for optimal conditions, if there is such a thing. Either by cancelling their credit card, pointguard, or another method to avoid drawing.

Not sure what happened. I think we would need to see the 24 point holder's 2nd choice, might have drawn that? One of the 23 point guys drew in the 1-2 pass round https://s3.amazonaws.com/azgfd-portal-wordpress/azgfd.wp/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/16142447/2018-Pronghorn-and-Elk-Bonus-Point-Report-1-2-Pass-by-Hunt-Number.pdf

As long as it's still legal to fly my falcon with a gopro hero session attached, over water holes while its open season and live streaming to my cell phone, then I'm good!

Flagstaff G&F front desk are by far the rudest and grumpiest employees in the entire department. I'll happily drive 2 hours to the Pinetop office before going into that office again. Call and ask to leave a message for the warden or biologist. You will have to press them over and over and make it obvious you aren't going to hang up until you get thru. Then you can leave a message and hope they call back.

That is what I am thinking. It's certainly going to be open season on game cameras! What is game and fish going to do with all the confiscated cams? Why don't they just target the problem areas instead of make the rule statewide? Make it only for units north of the Grand Canyon and at a specific time. Why punish the OTC archery hunters in the 30 units who are happy to shoot a 2 point off of water?

We went through a few before getting the Cabela's commercial grade. Works great and is tough. Don't get anything plastic if you intend to use it a lot and look for strong blades. https://www.cabelas.com/product/CABELAS-COMMERCIAL-EZ-CUT-FRY-CUTTER/2105613.uts

I am sure it's a disheartening thing to see one of your choices on the leftover list, but where in the draw rules does it state that rejected cards will go to the next applicant?

"While the current use of satellite imagery for hunting is not popular due to the costs involved, the Commission believes it is necessary to proactively address concerns about the use of satellite imagery and prohibit its use for taking or aiding in the take of wildlife." Are they trying to get ahead of technology like this?: http://live.farearth.com/ (google "far earth live") How are they ever going to enforce this going forward? Get a search warrant for your cell phone and/or computer is they suspect you are looking at sat photos?

Does it have a dented rib by the end of the forestock? 4th pic down, left side.

Well.....6 years ago the owner of this company joined AZSFW and tried to steal 500+ tags a year from you. Luckily hunters have very short memories!

I have 2 youth size Axis stocks, just in case...

It would be kinda cool if they added shotguns to the HAM hunt. Call it HAMS or SHAM or MASH. Anyways, putting a slug in one from a shotgun sounds fun!

Gary Reeder Custom Guns 2601 E. 7th Ave. By Cal Ranch They did some custom stock work for me and it turned out awesome.

I've got a Ranger XP and this happens all the time lately. Usually when the engine is cold it will sound like its running on 1 cylinder right when I start it. I turn it off, take off the seat and rotate/apply pressure to the spark plug wires where they meet the plug. Always fixes it but can be annoying. After it warms up, or later in the day, never has this problem. I think I need new plug wires.