billrquimby

"Let's not forget about the incredible X diamond ranch !" Despite what Good Morning Arizona implied during its broadcast from the Greer Lodge Wednesday, South Fork (X Diamond), 26 Bar Ranch, Eagar and Springerville are not yet in Greer. Bill Quimby

Thank you everyone. I just hope the interviews will be over early and there will be time to do a bit of shooting. I've taken most of the larger antelope of southern Africa, but the place I'm going is one of the few places black-faced impala and damarland dik-dik can be hunted (only the dik-dik can be imported into the USA). >>>>>>>>>>"I read on another forum of an impending closure of Molly Butler Lodge, so I called. All that the lady could tell me was that it is for sale and is open. Bill, do you perhaps have any more information?" >>>>>>>>> It's been for sale off and on for years. What she didn't tell you is that the Apache County Supervisors met last Thursday in St. Johns to hear a proposal to rezone the property for a major expansion project that would include a two-story hotel, condos and townhouses, and parking lots for more than 90 cars. I came off the mountain today before I could learn how the board voted, but I would expect the thing is a go. Ugh! Also at the meeting was a request to allow the people at Amberian Point to build condos. I watched Good Morning Arizona this morning before heading for Tucson and had two thoughts: 1. I found it strange that Molly Butler's Lodge wasn't mentioned or even shown in that broadcast. That's awful considering it's Arizona's oldest continually operating lodge. The TV crew obviously was comped into the Greer Lodge Company's rooms and kitchen. 2. I was outraged that people who didn't know about Greer before the broadcast were told how wonderful our little area is. The next thing we know someone will open a CircLe K and a golf course! Bill Quimby

Greer fans will want a copy of "Memories From Greer, Tales Told of a Unique Arizona Village," the hardcover book that I edited and produced for the Greer Library Friends. It should be available for sale about Memorial Day for $24.95. It contains nearly 60 stories told by old-timers and recent arrivals in our little hamlet, and more than 100 photos and sketches. I first visited Greer when I was 10 years old in 1946 and fell in love with it. I bought some land on Badger Creek close to 40 years ago and began building the cabin from which I'm writing this note tonight. The cabin probably will not be completed in my lifetime. Living here from April to November each year is a wonderful experience. This morning I woke up to find six cow elk feeding outside my kitchen window. An hour later, a flock of jake turkeys visited our creek. I can tell you there is a huge cultural shock when I drive back to Tucson for doctors' appointments -- the traffic and congestion of Pinetop/Lakeside/Show Low are gosh awful, and when I hit Oro Valley I want to gag. I feel bad that I will be gone for a month this summer, but there's a safari outfitter in Namibia who wants a book about his illustrious lifetime and somebody has to write it. I leave for Windhoek on May 22. Bill Quimby

Two or three years ago friends in Eagar reported seeing of a small "albino" bull elk near Mexican Hay Lake above my cabin. I went there a couple of times hoping to see it but never did. After that year's hunt someone posted a "hero" photo in a barber shop in Springerville of what must have been that animal. The guy who killed it near Mexican Hay was posing with his "pie-bald" bull. Its coat had more darker areas on it than the whitetail on this thread, though, which made it look more like a "pinto" or "paint" horse. It was the first off-color elk I've heard of in Arizona, although I'm sure it does occur infrequently. Bill Quimby

"It was a pleasure." Ditto!

I totally agree about being prepared, with a proviso. In the late 1960s I competed in the Sonoran metalicas siluetas matches in Nogales, Hermosillo and Cananea over a couple of summers -- I even won a small trophy -- and could hit the metal "borego" targets offhand from 500 meters without any type of rest or sling about 20% of the time, so 500 yard shots don't scare me. Even when I was at my peak, though, given the choice of shooting at a deer 500 yards away or closing the distance to 300, I'd have tried to get closer every time. Bill Quimby

"I would agree with you in most cases...... but if you believe that you can close that 200 yds all the time you have never hunted some of the country that I do..... We often have Nothing but air between us and the game animal.... meaning that to clost the distance you might have to get to 50yds and no animal in the county that I am talking about is going to let you get to 50yds.....In really heavy cover and rugged country some times you are NOT getting any closer... and you may never see that buck again. Finding a deer in country like that is very difficult in the first place and finding them is what defines hunting and the hunter, IMO..... other wise it would be called killing. How we dispatch the animal after we find it does not matter as long as it is done in an ethical manner.....bow, muzzle loader, rifle, or at 12yds or at 610 yds. We should not judge that hunter or classify him unless given a reason to believe that it was done in an unethical manner......" coues 'n' sheep: I didn't say it was possible to cut a 500-yard shot down to a 300-yard shot every time because it isn't. Nothing is sure in hunting. And, I would bet a $5 bill that if I haven't hunted the exact area you now do that I have successfully hunted country identical to it at least once over Arizona's past 60 deer seasons. Also, a bowhunter would disagree about never getting to within 50 yards of an animal. But I was talking about cutting 500 yards to 300 (and not to 50) and that usuallly isn't difficult to do in most places unless you're talking about wide-open antelope habitat. Deer country usually is broken and has some cover. What I said was: "When someone tells me he kills most of his game at quarter-mile-plus distances, I mark him down as a shooter and not an especially good hunter." Note that I said, "most of his game." I stand by that. Bill Quimby

"Is this gun big enough for Coues deer at 500 yards? Is there enough velocity and energy at that distance to drop these deer? I’ve always herd the magic number of 2000 ft per second when it comes to velocity and energy. Do you think if I change the barrel to a 24 or 26 inch barrel this would better my odds with this gun, as far as increasing velocity and knockdown power or do I look at getting a different rifle? " -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The answers to the questions above are like the fabled price-of-the-yacht question -- If you have to ask, you can't afford it. Five-hundred yard shots are doable and ethical for those who study and understand ballistic tables, have the proper equipment and practice, practice, practice until they also know and understand the effects of wind drift. However, most people should get 200 yards closer to their targets. It's not that hard to do. When someone tells he kills most of his game at quarter-mile-plus distances, I mark him down as a shooter and not an especially good hunter. Bill Quimby

Guys, let's hope that AGFD doesn't rely on "one helicopter flyover every other year" to determine numbers of our wildlife. Years ago I was invited to ride in a game department-hired chopper in the Catalinas above Tucson. The purpose was to look for sites other than Pusch Ridge still holding sheep. We started by driving up the Sabino Canyon road at first light. I was surprised at just how many deer we saw along the creek as we drove up the canyon. They seemed to be everywhere, even standing in the shallow pools. When we boarded the chopper at the end of the road I was convinced we were going to see a ton of game, especially deer, that morning. Well, we didn't. We lifted off the pad and started across the face of the mountain at what seemed to be 50 mph until we reached Pima Canyon, ducked inside, and started going slower, hovering in a few places where the WM knew sheep hung out. We then rounded the ridge and hit the canyons on the north side of the ridge before returning to Sabino. We saw maybe two dozen sheep and ZERO DEER! The sheep were seen only in the places they aleady were known to use. (IMO, though, it was because they were the only places we really searched.) I believe the reason we saw no deer was because they didn't move until after the chopper had passed over them. We went slow and scoured the hillsides only where the WM expected to see sheep. Another time I was part of a ground crew aiding in a survey on Pusch Ridge. We on the ground saw as many sheep with our binoculars and spotting scopes as the chopper crew found from the air. In my mind, helicopters are only as good as the WM who is directing the pilot. Bill Quimby

thanks.

Ugh!

Don't worry. Heroes are more heroic in hindsight. There are heroes in this generation that have not yet been recognized. Bill Quimby

Great photos! I have a long-dead uncle who roped a big mule deer by himself in the 1930s, and had a devil of a time because it kept charging his horse. He said he eventually dragged the buck off its feet and got it snugged up to a tree. He didn't want to lose his rope so he killed it with a hatchet he carried in his saddle bag. It wasn't legal, of course, but there wasn't the stigma of killing game out of season 75 years ago as there is now. A lot of people then thought there was nothing wrong with taking a deer or two for food, and many viewed anyone who could hoodwink a warden as a Robin Hood poaching the king's deer. They were wrong, of course. Seeing those photos reminds me of Charles Jesse "Buffalo" Jones, who brought bison to Arizona. He herded them from a railhead south of Salt Lake City a couple hundred miles to his ranch in House Rock Valley. Some of his bison also were shipped to Raymond Ranch and what became Fort Huachuca. His claim to fame came from roping and capturing wild animals, though. In North America, he roped mountain lions, deer, elk, black and grizzly bears and muskoxen, and when a rich Democrat wanted to ridicule Theodore Roosevelt's much-publicized safari he sent Jones and two Arizona cowboys to East Africa to rope what Teddy shot. They roped and captured (not counting lesser game such as warthog and antelopes) a lioness, an elephant, a rhino and a giraffe. They shipped the lioness to a zoo. Interesting guy. He was one of the last buffalo hunters, and served as the model for several of the heroes in Zane Gray's novels. He also rode in the Oklahoma Land Rush and Buffalo Bill's wild west shows, was named Yellowstone's first warden, and wound up in the Cowboy Hall of Fame. He died in bed of malaria in Kansas after an unsuccessful West African safari to rope a gorilla. They don't make them like Jones, my uncle, and the guys who roped that elk any more. Bill Quimby

Two three years ago I saw a pair twice --- three days apart --- above my cabin near White Mountain Reservoir, and three more as my wife and I were approaching McNary. There could have been more in the brush. I think I read somewhere that USFWS had decided to eliminate or move this pack because of tribal complaints. They look nothing at like a coyote. I also shot a big gray wolf (it actually was black) in the Yukon on a moose hunt in about 1993. It was so big it was all my guide and I could do to get the thing up on the Morgan horse I was riding. I never got the hide. It got lost in shipping between Whitehorse and Tucson. Bill Quimby

Oh yeah - Did they take your 7.50 off your card when you applied???????????????? I will have to check. My wife doesn't trust me to pay the bills. I checked the AZGFD site and it also has no record of my application. Bill

I applied for an elk tag on line and was given a confirmation number, which I did not write down. When I called I was told Game and Fish has no record of my applying! Am I alone in this? Bill Quimby

What made me suspicious was I couldn't figure what the guy is doing with his hands while bent over like that. It looks as if he's cleaning a horse's hoof, but both of the bull's front legs are straight. Helluva photo, though. Bill Quimby

I was sent the photo by a friend, and it looked too good to be true so I enlarged it greatly. Try it. Take a close look at the harness under the bull's belly and look at the hard edges, and then try to figure what the guy is doing with his hands. I think someone who is super skilled with PhotoShop either enhanced a photo of someone with a moose, or committed pure fraud. The hair on the bull's back also looks doctored when it's enlarged. Bill Quimby

I received a bulletin from SCI’s Washington office that says a U.S. Burearu of Land Management plan could close a big chunk of southern Arizona to shooting. Here’s what SCI says about the plan’s four alternatives: “A is the no-action alternative keeping target shooting just as it is. B is the most restrictive management alternative and along with C, would close the Monument to recreational shooting; and D is access-oriented and would allow shooting to continue as is. The problem is that neither A nor D addresses the acknowledged issues related to target shooting and so they are not believable management alternatives. What is missing is some kind of middle ground for target shooting: it is either shoot everywhere or shoot nowhere.” Here is the BLM press release: ronwood Forest National Monument Resource Management Plan Draft Resource Management Plan / Draft Environmental Impact Statement The BLM Tucson Field Office announces publication of the Draft Resource Management Plan and Environmental Impact Statement (DRMP). The document will be available for a 90-day public review and comment period from March 2 to May 30, 2007. The document is now available on the web (link above). A limited number of printed copies and CDs are also available. You may request a copy by contacting Mark Lambert, Project Lead, at BLM Tucson Field Office, 12661 E. Broadway Blvd., Tucson, AZ, 85748, by calling BLM at 520-258-7200, or by e-mail at AZ_IFNM_RMP@blm.gov. Please specify which media type you prefer. During the 90-day public comment period, BLM will hold a number of meetings to introduce the document and provide an opportunity for the public to comment. Meeting dates and locations are posted under Meeting Information. The DRMP presents four different alternatives for management of the Ironwood Forest National Monument (IFNM), which take into consideration comments received by other governmental agencies, public organizations, tribal entities, and interested individuals. Also included in the DRMP is a Draft Environmental Impact Statement which analyzes the potential impacts from the management strategies that would be employed under each alternative. The IFNM was established by Presidential Proclamation in June 2000. The 129,000-acre monument, located about 25 miles northwest of Tucson, encompasses several desert mountain ranges including the Silvebell, Waterman, and Sawtooth ranges, and possesses one of the richest stands of ironwood trees in the Sonoran Desert. The monument contains several archaeological districts and a significant system of cultural and historical sites covering a 5,000-year period. The monument also features a wide diversity of vegetation and wildlife.

My American Express card has not been charged by AGFD for anything, including an application fee. Am I still in the race, or must I watch other people shoot elk this year again?

I agree with Lark. Just about every rifle, with a good trigger, proper bedding and reloads that are tailored for it, will shoot better than most hunters can shoot -- and just as well as most "custom" rifles. A good trigger, proper bedding and good reloads will even make an inexpensive Savage shoot good 'nough to kill a deer out to 500 yards if you have a proper caliber, although it will do nothing for the Savage's inherent extraction problems. I suggest you take your $2000, add another $2000, and go shoot a couple of caribou in Newfoundland. If it were me, I'd take the $2000 and buy a plane ticket to Botswana where I can shoot as many kudu, wildebeest, eland and impala on a friend's ranch that the Bushman in a nearby village can eat -- and I'd do it with the trusty ol' 7 mm Rem Mag I stocked myself from a chunk of walnut another friend and I cut on his ranch in the Hill Country. The action is a Czech-built Mark V Mauser to which I added a Timney trigger and a Winchester Model 70-type trigger. The barrel came on the action. I have no more than $300 in that rifle (not counting the Leupold 3x9) and it's killed maybe 150 head of game on six continents. I wrote a book last year for a guy who has hunted Marco Polo argali ($30,000 each) in Tajikistan two to three times a year, every year for the past seven or eight years. He can afford the finest custom rifle, but he shoots an out-of-box 7 mm Rm Mag Sako with a Swarovski scope. He believes a quality scope is more important than the rifle. In his words, "a $5,000 rifle with a $150 scope is a $150 rifle." Bill Quimby

Only when we've had too many frijoles, then watch out.

Dave: "Capping" non-residents? Come on. You''re dreaming. The only way to do this would be to enact something similar to the 10% rule, such as there is for rifle hunts for bighorn, elk, etc., and that would be tough, even for our most conservative wildlife managers to justify with bowhunting's low success rate. I have no idea why (or if) we have fewer deer in Arizona. I do know that permit-only, buck-only hunting on a unit-by-unit basis with multiple seasons has not been a success after nearly 40 years. The horrific declining number of hunting permits over those years is proof of that -- and don't blame a drought. We haven't had a 40-year drought. We've had wet and dry cycles come and go. It's time to try something else. I'll say it again: Anyone who believes our permit numbers are based on actual deer numbers is naive. In units with lots of locked gates and few tags, the only thing I can figure is that parking spaces are computed. As for "there would be tags for any resident who wanted to archery deer hunt in just about any unit he/she wanted to," don't bet the farm on that happening. If there are archery permits issued by a lottery, you better believe tags will be limited in number and issued on a unit-by-unit basis. Ditto for archery permits not shortening or changing seasons. Don't expect a system designed just for resident bowhunters. If permit-only bowhunting comes, the format will be no different from what riflemen are forced to endure. One of the first changes that would come would be ending the ability of archers to also hunt in rifle seasons. You'll have to decide whether you want to hunt your deer with a rifle or a bow. You won't be able to do both -- just as it is now with elk, antelope and javelina. If there is one thing I have learned in my long life is that bureaucracy seeks conformity, with a single set of rules it can apply to everyone. If you want to see your worst nightmare come true, ask to put archery deer hunts on a draw system. Bill Quimby P.S. I am well for an old fart, I guess. Thank you.

<<<<<<"Point in case 12aw in 2005 1000 rifle tags with approx. 40-50% sucess. I hunted Kaibab archery in '05, And 400-500 deer were not taken during that hunt or any other! Better manage the rifle hunts first.">>>>>>>> I view this differently. When a unit has a 40% to 50% hunter success on BUCK-ONLY hunting it means to me tha there are plenty of deer in that unit and MORE tags could have been issued. Typically, hunter success rates drop as more people go afield, and 20% to 30% success rates are considered good in most states. A similar thing goes for a high percentage of young bucks in the "harvest." Some hunters view it with alarm, but this is an indicator of a healthy, expanding herd. When the majority of bucks taken are 3 or more years old it means reproduction has suffered for the past couple of years. <<<<<<<"If some units are more crowded than others, put a draw on them, but I see no need to have a draw in units where few people go anyway and where success rates are much lower than on Kaibab">>>>>>>> Back in 1969, the original plan was to have rifle permits in just a few units near Phoenix, Flagstaff and Tucson, but wildlife managers feared a "domino" effect with hunters who normally hunted these units spilling over into the adjacent open units. Before we knew it, the damned things were across the board statewide. You can be sure the same thing will happen if bowhunters are forced into a lottery like riflemen.

“Managing animals unit by unit is the best way to control and manage animals.” Dave: After nearly 40 years of “management” -- especially with 60% fewer hunters than we started with -- wouldn’t you think we should have deer running out of our ears everywhere in this state? The truth is, AGFD and its draw system manages us, but it hasn’t increased deer numbers. And don’t bring up those tired old excuses of “drought” and “increasing population.” Does it take 40 years for us to realize that drought comes and goes in Arizona, and that no matter how many people have moved here the acreage of public land hasn’t changed? What has changed under “management” is that we have fewer deer, fewer hunters, and shorter (and more) seasons. We do have more locked gates blocking our access to public land, but that’s because we haven’t really demanded that land managers remove them. The hunters who are influential enough to change this won't do so because they know the people with the keys and they want places where they can hunt without being bothered by “slobs.” But if you think Arizona’s deer permit numbers and seasons actually are based on the number of deer out there, I would like to introduce you to a banker in Nigeria. He has been trying to get $6 million out of his country. He just needs someone in the USA to send him a few dollars to cover his expenses. Bill Quimby