billrquimby

Bret: What makes you think that John Wayne Bear Hunter buffoons won't draw tags and continue to whack every little sow or 2-year-old male that sticks its head out? A trophy is in the eye of the beholder, and some of these guys have never seen a bear in the wild. Bill Quimby

Ooops. Talk about stupid grammatical errors! I hope everyone realizes that it was the tribal guide and not the pickup truck that asked us to leave. I know better. Honest. Bill Quimby Amanda: Is there a way in the future that I can edit my messages after I add them to a thread?

I took a friend to where the Forest Service has barricaded the road to Sheep's Crossing on Monday evening, hoping to see a really big bull I've watched since early August. It was nowhere to be seen, but we did stop to watch a 6x6 that might score 360 or so net. It was with fifteen or twenty cows in a little meadow a half mile south of the Sunrise Lake service station and store, about 200 yards from the road. We'd been there twenty minutes or so when a pickup truck with a tribal member dressed in camo drove up and said, "Would you please leave? We're conducting a hunt here." My friend was Bud Bristow, a former game and fish department director, and he was disturbed that whomever had bought a White Mountain Apache license had been asked to shoot his expensive elk from a paved road. I was shocked that the tribal guide would want his hunter to shoot such an average bull (for the reservation during the rut) after paying a ton of bucks for the opportunity. Oh well. To each his own. We did as asked and drove off to look up another bull I knew about and never learned if the hunter shot the one we had been watching. To answer your question, elk still are in the rut on and off the reservation. We had a herd in our back yard last night. The bull did a bunch of bugling, so I assume there was a satellite bull somewhere nearby. Bill Quimby courtesy GGNA (Greater Greer News Agency)

It's been so long since I've drawn a tag of any kind that I've almost forgotten, but I do remember that I prefered to butcher my own game because I like my meat absolutely clean without grit, hair or bloodshot areas. I took my last elk to a butcher in Springerville who did a good job, but I had to do some trimming on a few packages after defrosting them. Bill Quimby

Bob and I were friends since the late 1960s, when he still was the game and fish department's public information officer. He and I also were partners in several ventures, including publishing hunting tip booklets for Yellow Front and maps of the White Mountains. He loved only one thing more than hunting and fishing, and that was his family. He instilled in all of his children that same love. Bob suffered a series of strokes over the past couple of years, including a couple of weeks or so ago that mercifully spared him from knowing that his beloved Mary's diabetes would cost her a leg one week before he died. His service will be held Saturday morning at the Church of the Beatitudes. I am saddened by his death, but doubly so because I'm checking into the hospital in the morning with a recurring problem and don't know if I'll be out in time to attend. Bill Quimby

I first hunted deer in Arizona in 1948, and over the past 60 years have seen some wierd, funny and awful things. I've found men who died from heart attacks, shooting and hanging, watched a spike bull elk that was mostly white with patches of tan, called in a coatimundi in a cholla patch near Florence (of all places), and had two shirtless, braless female hikers walk up to within a few yards before they saw me and ran. I've stepped on rattlesnakes, fallen off ledges, driven up on a couple doing the deer in an SUV where I wanted to park, and had my trucks break down and leave me stranded and alone miles from anywhere. I think the wierdest thing I ever saw happened with the last Arizona whitetail I shot. I was staying in a motel in Willcox and hunting alone above Arivaipa Canyon because both of my buddies had business commitments. At first light, I found a buck and a bighorn ram feeding within a few yards of each other on a cone-shaped peak at least a half mile from where I was glassing with my 20X spotting scope. The ram would plop down and bed for a while, then get up and move to another bed. The deer mostly stayed up and feeding. It was about 11 a.m., before I was certain both of them were down for the day. I circled the peak and approached the buck from the top and shot it when it jumped up. I was gutting it when I heard something above me. The ram was about 30 yards away, looking down at me. I was 63 years old then, and there was no way I could carry the buck whole so I cut it in half and relayed the two halves down to the road -- carrying the rear legs and rifle 100 yards or so, then leaving them and going back for the front half, etc.. The ram followed me all the way. When I reached the road, I left my buck, rifle and binocs and went for my truck. The ram still was there when I returned and loaded up everything. He still was standing in the two-track road, looking dumb, as I drove away. Bill Quimby

Is it just me, or do others also think there are more mule deer running around in units 1 and 27 than there have been for a long time? It wasn't that long ago that I could drive out of my cabin in Greer to look for elk and see only one or two deer per seven or eight trips. This summer it's been rare that I have not seen at least a dozen deer each time I drive the same routes. I saw five forked-horn bucks in one group last week. There's still a long way to go before it's like it was in the 1960s, but it's been a long time since I've seen that many bucks together on this mountain. I'm also seeing a lot of does with twin fawns. I really believe the tree thinning the forest service is doing up here is improving habitat for deer. Bill Quimby

Thanks. Penetration is just one factor in humanely killing an animl, though. Otherwise we'd be using military ball ammo in our .308s and .30-06s. I shot 10-15 springbok in South Africa on a cull about ten years ago using South African made .243 "solids" (actually fully copper encased lead bullets) and drilled small holes clear through every one of these 50-pound antelopes that I hit, no matter tha angle. The only instant kills came came when I and other shooters broke a spine or neck. Springbok hit elsewhere ran from 30 to 150 yards before dropping. Thankfully the farm was near Kimberley, which is open country, and we had no problem finding them. Bill Quimby

Thanks. Penetration is just one factor in humanely killing an animl, though. Otherwise we'd be using military ball ammo in our .308s and .30-06s. I shot 10-15 springbok in South Africa on a cull about ten years ago using South African made .243 "solids" (actually fully copper encased lead bullets) and drilled small holes clear through every one of these 50-pound antelopes that I hit, no matter tha angle. The only instant kills came came when I and other shooters broke a spine or neck. Springbok hit elsewhere ran from 30 to 150 yards before dropping. Thankfully the farm was near Kimberley, which is open country, and we had no problem finding them. Bill Quimby

I have used these in my .270 for some years. Dropped my sheep with one shot through the chest at 300 yds. Went clear through him. Dropped a coues in his tracks last year at 50 yds with a texas heart shot. Recovered the bullet under the skin on the other end, it stayed together pretty well. I still don't know what these non-lead bullets are made of. If you get full-body penetration from end to end at 50 yards on a Coues deer and side-to-side on a sheep at 300 yards it means they're not expanding much. Whatever it is, I'd like to have some in .22 caliber for my .22/250. They sound for for coyotes, bobcats, and javelina. They shouldn't tear things up too much. I don't want them for an elk, though. Bill Quimby

Do you mean his organization would trade steel shot shotgun shells for those loaded with lead? My ignorance may be showing, but I can't imagine anyone providing non-lead bullets for all calibers of centerfire rifles, to say nothing about .22 rimfires. What would the non-lead bullets be made of? Solid copper weighs considerably less than lead and does not expand like lead. Bill Quimby

Changes to New Jersey Fish and Game Council would threaten fishing, hunting . 13 September 2007 BY ANTHONY P. MAURO SR. Instituting a law to prohibit fishing would be unimaginable only a generation ago. Fishing is so intertwined in New Jersey's recreational and economic past and present that it is hard to imagine living without it. Sadly, Monmouth County politicians may outlaw this essential part of our outdoor heritage. Legislative bills A-3275 and S-2041 have been introduced by Assemblyman Michael Panter and Sen. Ellen Karcher, both D-Monmouth. These bills will eliminate freshwater fishing, hunting and trapping in New Jersey. It will be achieved by changing the structure of the Fish and Game Council. The council now includes 11 people knowledgeable about conservation principles and wildlife management techniques. Represented are farmers, sportsmen, a person with an understanding of land management and soil conservation, and the chairman of the Endangered and Nongame Species Advisory Committee. To ensure the integrity of the selection process, people are recommended by the state agricultural convention and the state Federation of Sportsman's Clubs to the governor. Under the proposed bills, there would be little or no requirement for people versed in conservation principles and wildlife management techniques. The council would be pared to seven members, only two of whom would be farmers. All members would be chosen by the recommendation and advice of the Senate, instead of an unbiased and legitimate commissions. This politicizes the selection process, which could be easily exploited by those with an agenda. The current statute governing the Fish and Game Council provides for conserving freshwater fish, game birds, game animals and fur-bearing animals for public recreation and food supply. The proposed bills change the council's purpose by deleting all consideration for the use and development of fish and game for public recreation and food supply. Since freshwater fishing, hunting and trapping are all recreation-based and largely driven by a need for food supply, the bills ostensibly eliminate these activities. Controlling the things we eat is not new for Panter and Karcher. Both are vegetarians. Both initiated the ban on goose liver sales and trans fats. Interestingly, both represent constituents in District 12 — home to a network of animal rights activism. The New Jersey Animal Rights Alliance of Manalapan operates a nonprofit organization that claims dedication to ending animal exploitation. But this is no folksy protest group. Its director is listed as a press officer for the Animal Liberation Press Office, a publication set up to relay information to the media about action undertaken by the Animal Liberation Front and other radical animal-rights groups. The FBI has identified ALF as one of America's primary domestic terrorist threats. The Animal Protection PAC, also based in Manalapan. was established to advance the animal rights agenda through donations to like-minded politicians. In 2005, it donated nearly $1,700 to Panter's re-election campaign. On Sunday, it will host a vegan-catered party for Panter, his running mate Amy Mallet and Karcher. Also contributing to Panter's campaign is Humane USA, the political action committee of the Humane Society of the United States. Testimony provided to the U.S. Senate by the director of research for the Center for Consumer Freedom revealed the Humane Society funded the operation of an Internet server used to issue ALF-related communications. Humane USA boasts on its Web site that its state-level giving was not only meaningful, but that Panter would not have been re-elected but for Humane USA's support. Karcher is the recipient of donations from Panter's political action committee. It is fair to say the funds she received may have originated from the pockets of animal activists. It is apparent that our representatives in District 12 believe our personal choices should be determined by Trenton elitists. Sponsoring legislation that is directed at changing the Fish and Game Council to advance the interests of a few at the expense of responsible oversight of our state's natural resources is reckless and unconscionable. New Jersey is already experiencing high populations of deer, geese, bear and coyotes due to political interference of wildlife policy. The current model governing the structure of the council has served our state extraordinarily well. I request that Panter and Karcher remove their misguided bills from consideration and that they refund all forms of donations given by Animal Protection PAC and Humane USA. Anthony P. Mauro Sr is chairman of a New Jersey sportsmen’s coalition.

I went out from the cabin Sunday evening to watch elk again. I had three small herds in view from one spot at sundown. Two were on the reservation side of the fence, the other was on the national forest. All three herds had very good bulls pushing cows around, and there were two satellite bulls running back and forth. One of them actually stole three cows from one of the herds as I watched. They were too far away to hear bugling but from what I saw that evening the rut definitely is on in Unit 1. I had been watching a super bull in that area for more than a month, but it was nowhere to be seen. Did any of you bowhunters kill a 400-plus bull near White Mountain Reservoir or Slade Ranch? If so, I congratulate you. That's as good a bull as I've seen alive or dead. Bill Quimby

Tony: 12 gauge, 00 buck, from a helicopter or SuperCub Bill

Dear Tony: Shoot the dog. Bill Quimby

Garth: We agree that AGFD should listen to sportsmen more and immediately remove the locks and barriers blocking our access to public land. Our differences in opinion have to do with "growing" game and habitat. I'll take habitat first. Game and Fish HAS been buying habitat formerly in private ownership, for example the Sipes Ranch and the grasslands near Round Valley in the White Mountains. This is wonderful. However, private land comprises less than 18% of our entire state. Even if the agency bought every square inch of private land that doesn't now have a house, office building, service station, highway or shopping mall on it and managed that land for wildlife, it would have little impact. The vast majority of Arizona is in some form of state, federal or tribal ownership. AGFD has no authority to manage habitat on these lands. It can make recommendations, but the responsibility belongs to the land managing agencies. As for "growing game," Yes, the AGF Commission can manipulate the number of animals killed by reducing or increasing hunting permits. But it apparently cannot "grow" game. If it could, wouldn't it follow that we should have a heck of a lot more deer after steadily reducing permit numbers from 108,000 in 1970 to fewer than 40,000 today? Please don't scream "IT'S THE DROUGHT!" because it only supports my thesis: AGFD can't grow game because it can't make it rain. If you were to say the problem is predation, I'd agree with you. However, there is no way the public would allow wholesale reduction of predators by a public agency today. It became politically incorrect at least thirty years ago, and this also supports my thesis. Bill Quimby

"This is what they do not do: 1. Respect the opinions of the public. 2. Grow animals. 3. Grow habitat. 4. Grow access." Sorry guys, but our game and fish department has neither the ability to "grow animals" nor the authority to "grow habitat." They can "grow access," but historically the AGFD has not done so for some reason I cannot fathom. As for "respect the opinions of the public," be careful. We hunters are vastly outnumbered by other members of the public. Bill Quimby

" Everything I see on the hunting channels shows the hunter over corn fields , bean fields,wheat fields, etc.........and they are primarily hunting these type of fields in just about every state but Az and a couple others I think." The last deer I shot in Arizona was one of 14 bucks feeding in a maize field in 2003. My partner shot his buck the day before in a chili patch. We found nothing unethical about our hunts, and would do it again in a heartbeat if we could draw permits. (Neither of us has drawn any kind of permit in the last four years.) When you are as old, fat and feeble as I am you'll hunt the maize and chili fields, too. Bill Quimby

Please try to ignore the misspellings and poor grammar in the above post. I hit send before I edited it. I really am not that illiterate. Honest. Bill Quimby

It seems that everyone is scratching to come up with a definition of "ethical hunting." I went through that exercise years ago and here's what I finally decided upon: Ethics in hunting are the standards acceptable to the majority of hunters in a particular region. Thus, it can be ethical to hunt deer with dogs in certain area in certain southern U.S. states. It is considereed OK to shoot game near and even on the banks of waterholes anywhere in the USA, but do the same in southern Africa and the "ethical sportsmen" on that continent consider it akin to spotlighting and shooting from vehicles. (Yes, I know, bowhunting outfitters in Africa build bowhunting blinds over water and a lot of foreign rifle hunters shoot from vehicals.. That's because outfitters are in the business of selling game and sending home successful clients.) In Africa,hunters are debating whether hunting leopards with hounds is ethical. I know at least one person on this forum who feels it is unethical to bait bears, even where legal. In most of eastern Canada, it's about the only way bears are hunted. And so on. As for trail cameras, one might argue that because the majority of hunters don't use them they must be unethical. That's poppycock. As someone said there is nothing wrong with taking an animal's photo. Baiting is another matter. It does attract animals. However, I personally find nothing wrong with that. If Pope and Young and Boone and Crockett consider using "attractants" to be unethical, they both need to drop all the deer from Texas and a whole lot of other states from their books because the majority of hunters their shoot their bucks from treestands overlooking fancy corn feeders. Bill Quimby

"I wouldn't say that wildlife managers aka field guys are in entry level positions, I know some that have been WM's for over 20 years. My opinion is the guys in the field should make the decisions, since they are the ones doing the surveys and know there units and whats going on in them. Just my two cents." You're assuming WMs are equally knowledgeable about their units. They are not. Some are so biased they won't accept new ideas and believe they own their units and the wildlife in them. That's why the guys in the offices set guidelines for how surveys are to be taken and how data are to be used. I stand by my original position: Most guys in entry level positions do not know more than their bosses. The longer they are in the same post the more they forget nearly every supervisor started as a WM. Bill Quimby

"Bill, speaking of taking out the trash. I remember as a kid there at the cabins at Greer hauling off the trash meant there was a good chance of seeing a bear. One night my older brother who had been sleeping out on the front porch came in yelling about a bear and sure enough, his yelling had scared the bear right up into the tree next to the cabin we were renting.....we got alot of laughs out of that one." We had a small bear just outside our kitchen window a couple of weeks ago. It destroyed one of my wife's squirrel feeders as we watched. It was the second bear we've seen in our yard this year. Bill Quimby

Tony: Here's my submission ... Years ago I owned an old mule the man I'd bought it from claimed had been used to carry tourists in Grand Canyon and haul fencing materials for the Park Service before that. She was a huge animal that looked as if she should be pulling a Missouri plow. She might not have been pretty, but she was extremely gentle and an excellent riding animal. Believe it or not, when I'd grab my rifle out of its scabbard and jump off to shoot at something she actually would stand perfectly still, hold her breath and allow me to shoot over the saddle. I never saw a better mountain hunting animal. I'd point her where I wanted to go and give her her head, and she'd find the best route. When she'd stop, I merely looked at where she was looking and there would be a deer or some other animal. I packed mule deer, whitetails, javelinas, and halves of elk on her without any problems until we ran into a bear two guys had killed in a canyon off Stockton Pass north of Willcox during a deer hunt. I rode Jenny up to the bear, got off, walked her all around it, and let her smell it. She seemed to pay no attention to that bear until I held her halter while the two guys tried to load the bear in my saddle. I'm not a cowboy, but it seemed to me the best way to pack a bear was to tie its legs to the saddle rings on each side, and that's what they tried to do. When Jenny got skitterish, I used my jacket to blindfold her. The guys got the legs tied to one side of the saddle and started to work on the other when Jenny jerked her head, pushed me away, looked back and saw the bear, spun around and knocked the two guys down, and then took off running for our camp with the bear flopping from one side of the saddle from its legs. The bear broke off in the first 100 yards, but it was at least a mile before I caught up with my mule when she snagged one of the stirrups in a stump. She had lost one rein, and I had a hard time controlling her but I eventually got her back to camp. She calmed down by the next morning, but all I had to do to get her to walk sideways was to point her toward the canyon where she'd seen that bear. There was no way I could force her to go in that direction. Bill Quimby

"Bill, have a friend who owns a cabin in Greer. His name is Mike McCormick. His cabin is in that development to the right on the main road coming into town. If I recall the turnoff is just before the campground. Do you know him?-TONY" Tony: It's called Crosby Acres. Everyone considers it a part of Greer, but it's two or more miles from the village limits. I don't know Mike. Actually, we know few people here. Our cabin is on Badger Creek behind Molly Butler's Lodge and we're out of the social scene. http://forums.coueswhitetail.com/forums/st...icon_open.gifWe go to the post office a couple times a week, take our garbage to the Tin Star Trading Post on Wednesdays, and drive to Round Valley for groceries, gasoline and yard sales on weekends. The rest of the week we watch the pines and aspens grow when I'm not driving around, watching critters. About every other season my grandson wants a change from chasing girls and drives up to take me fishing. A retiree's life is really tough! Bill

I am not a stranger to the White Mountains. My first trip up here was in 1946, when I was 10 and our family camped on the banks of the Little Colorado River below the old hatchery runways in Greer. I shot my first of eight bull elk on the mountain in 1957 and have not missed spending at least two weeks here every year since. My wife and I bought land in Greer in about 1968 and I started what has become a lifetime project of building a cabin myself. Since I retired in 1999, we have spent every April to November here. I tell you all this to let you know I've seen all types of conditions from dry to wet years on this mountain, and I have watched our elk herds explode and our deer numbers decline to just a fraction of what they were up until the mid-1960s. Today, my favorite pasttime is driving the roads at first light three or four times a week to watch animals. A couple of years ago, I'd see as many as 900 elk and maybe 1 or 2 deer in a 40-mile morning's drive. This year, I'm seeing 200-300 elk and about a dozen deer nearly every trip. I've seen a great many 1- to 2-year-old bucks, but not a single trophy animal. To me, that's wonderful because it says we're getting good deer reproduction and survival again. The deer I see are mostly near where the forest service has thinned the trees. It's not scientific, I know, but I believe thinning is bringing back our deer herd by improving habitat. I don't get over there, but I suspect the same thing is happening on the other side of the mountain where the Rodeo/Chedesky fire thinned things five years ago. Bill Quimby