billrquimby

Let's see if I got this right. What some of you are saying is that because a handful of idiots are ignoring road closures we need to close more roads? I'm not the only old fart who is angry about this proposal. Here's what a friend who lives in Pinetop year around wrote to the forest service: "I am strongly against the proposal to close so called primitive roads. The national forests are there to offer opportunity to all of the public who own this national land. Not just those who may be able to walk that land or to have horses or mules to take them across. "Your enthusiasm to preserve what may well be beyond preservation only serves to deprive those of us who are no longer able to walk those paths access to land that we have loved and enjoyed for decades. "These national forests are mine as much as yours, and I insist on the right to continue to enjoy them as best I am able. At this time in my life that means with a motor vehicle. "Unmanaged recreation! Is my recreation in this day and age supposed to be managed? And by whom, you and your Washington D.C. comrades. For my seventy years my recreation has been managed by me with harm to no piece of ground and to no person. "Shame on you." He then made this comment on an email to me: "Unfortunately it is the trend in our country and in Arizona. Our so called national forest rangers, game and fish folks, USF&W folks, national monumenters, park servicers, have all gradually tended to the preservationist attitude. Screw the folks who own the land, screw the folks in whose trust we hold this land, screw the folks who have every right to use this land, we are gonna protect them from it. "'We hold these truths to be self evident, that whatever the Sierra Club, the Defenders of Wildlife or the Sky Island Alliance, wants, shall be the way of the land. We shall do their bidding for the common good of the common folks who don't know didly squat about what their needs or wants are. And so, to prevent them from ruining what is theirs we shall lock them out. "'We will follow the 11th commandment brougnt down from the mountain by Moses on his feet who propclaimed, "that was a heck of a climb up and down that dang hill (sorry Lord) and I think I knocked a rock or two out of place, good thing I didn't take the Caddy up there. So be it heretofore known, no man shall be allowed to enter this land and all future lands. Might run over a pineapple cactus or two on the way up or down.' "And nothing we do or say will do any good. And our represtentatives in Congress, those bold and noble folks who we elect to squabble amongst themselves rather than do the nations business are too busy doing just that....muckraking each other with no time to spare to see what the folks who elected them want or need."

I agree with that. Unit 1 & the northern part of unit 27 are both criss-crossed with so many roads & two-tracks that are fast becoming roads that it's rediculous. If there was a map that actually showed all of them, it would look like a dang waffle. I think they need to close the 50% & start enforcing the closures that are already there. Can't tell you how many quads & jeeps I've seen go right around the dirt-mounds on closed roads & haul but up the trail. Matt S. Why is it ridiculous? We're not talking about a designated wilderness area. We have plenty of those for people who are healthy enough to use them, and the non-wilderness areas of our national forests should be managed for multiple use ... and that includes recreational driving on logging roads. Besides, it's been at least 75 years since Unit 1 and the northern part of Unit 27 could be accused of being anything like a wilderness. The old excuse used for eliminating vehicular access to protect wildlife habitat doesn't fly, either. The elk in these units prove that. I spend one or two mornings each week from early May through late October exploring the logging trails in those two units. I must have driven a couple thousand miles on two-trackers there since I retired in 1999, and I haven't run over an elk, deer, bear, grouse, turkey, squirrel -- or even an endangered willow -- yet. I agree driving around barricades is wrong and illegal. I just think there are enough berms accross perfectly good roads and two-trackers already. Bill Quimby

Love is the universal language. OINK! That's good, because they speak Portuguese in Brazil. Bill Quimby

Now here's something I'd like to hunt! BQ http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8...amp;image=large http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtm...05/eapig105.xml

"SOME" roads I agree should be closed. If you look at the maps you will see what they want to do, it is overkill. They want to shut down over 50%!!!! That is insane, and why the Springerville district has so much more closure than others? When this goes into effect we are going to see people on 24" centers. Not only that but the USFS should allow atv riding on alot of the old loggin roads. They don't have to be maintained for ATV use! heck they don't even maintain the friggin trail the USFS built across virgin ground! It parralells and crosses the road many times! They also don't have to be maintained for those of us who don't have an ATV. My 4x4 pickup truck handles the two-track logging trails in the Springerville District just fine, thank you. Road closures discriminate against old farts like me who have health problems and cannot walk far. There already are several classic examples of discriminatory closures on the Apache-Sitgreaves, and the first that comes to mind is the old Squirrel Springs Road. This was a perfectly good road (and not just a two-tracker) that some yahoo decided to turn into a walking path, complete with a parking lot and toilets, near Greer. I have no idea how much money was spent to barricade a historic road that had been used for more than a half century and put in those "improvements," but it was considerable. People on 24" centers is a good description of what will happen when more and more roads are closed. I have no trouble with banning the building of new roads, but closing perfectly good ones makes no sense at all! Who cares if a logging road goes nowhere ... or even "just" a mile or so? Existing roads help distribute people and reduce their impact on the land. There's a new post on CW.com that tells about someone parking next to a CW member and racing up a hill ... I cannot think of a better example of what happens to hunters when vehicle access is restricted. In a just a few years, when the wave of "baby boomers" hits age 70 and up, and the boomers also are unable to walk to the places the land agencies are closing off, I hope they scream bloody murder! Too bad the jerks who want to deny us access to our property will already have taken their government pensions. Bill Quimby :angry: :angry:

I stopped hunting javelinas 7-8 years ago when I ran out of people to give them to, but I applied for (and got) a HAM tag for 2008. I got interested in hunting them again while writing a chapter about javelinas for my book, and decided that if I couldn't draw deer and elk permits I might as well use my Pioneer license to hunt something There's a problem, though. I'm having trouble deciding what I'll hunt with. At this point I'm thinking about putting a sling on a flintlock "Kentucky" rifle I built in the 1980s so I can pack it on my shoulder. I'll have a replica .44-caliber black powder Colt Navy on my belt and I'll carry my tried and true Ben Pearson "Javelina" recurve bow with 4-5 Port Orford cedar arrows from Herters tipped with some old single-blade broadheads I've had for years. That way I'll be ready for whatever shot presents itself. Bill Quimby

OH sorry it was a typo! It is travel not tracel. I went ahead and edited it THANKS crazy$COUES: It's also "asnf" (for apache sitgreaves national forest) and not "ansf." I make similar mistakes all the time. Bill Quimby

I re-arranged some letters in the address crazy$COUES supplied and sent my letter. It was not returned so I'm assumng it went through. This is the proper adddress, I think: asnf_travel_management@fs.fed.us Bill Quimby

I sent an email, but it was returned. Are you sure the address is ansf_tracel_management@fs.fed.us Bill Quimby

I like the part about them not stinking, which no one can say about their cousins, our little javelinas . Bill Quimby

The 2000 Arizona Wildlife Trophies book also would have ranked your buck at No. 9 of all time in Arizona, if 126 was the net score. It's a great buck, no matter where it ranks. You may spend the rest of your life and never find a better one. Congratulations Bill Quimby

Here's how that went down: An Arizona houndsman (a member of a well-known southern Arizona ranching family) and a Tucson taxidermist were targeted by the Arizona Game and Fish Department after the word spread around Tucson that the houndsman had killed a jaguar (he had bragged to other hunters about it) and had it mounted by the taxidermist. Two Colorado state game department employees were loaned to the Arizona Game and Fish, and they began by hiring the houndsman to take them bear hunting. One of the Colorado men was of Asian descent, and in the course of a couple of hunts, got the houndsman to sell them bear gall bladders, supposedly for resale in Asia. The outfitter also guided the undercover agents on illegal hunts in Arizona. Before their "sting" was over the agents had killed a bear, a javelina and a bighorn, all out of season, and the houndsman had accepted their money. They also got the houndsman to agree to sell them the lifesize mounts of the Arizona jaguar and a jaguarundi the houndsman had killed outside the U.S.. To complete the sting, the agents talked the houndsman and one of his buddies into taking the mounted cats to a motel across the border in New Mexico where money changed hands, and the two outlaws were busted by Arizona and New Mexico state agents and the feds. The taxidermist pled guilty to various charges and paid a fine; the houndsman got off for a couple of reasons. For one, although jaguars were protected in Arizona the feds had neglected to list jaguars in the U.S. on their list of endangered species because at the time it was thought that they were extinct here. (They now are listed.) The feds probably could have prosecuted under the U.S. Lacey Act, which made it illegal to cross state lines with the illegally taken (under state laws) jaguar, but the state had done the sting and the houndsman faced only state charges in Superior Court here in Tucson. The case went on for a couple of years before a judge dismissed it, claiming the agents went too far in killing the bear, javelina and bighorn. He said something lilke this: "The state has been too zealous. It would be like getting inside the Mafia by killing someone." I've forgotten exactly when all this happened, but I think it was in the early 1990s. It definitely was prior to 1994, when I retired from the Tucson Citizen, because I wrote several columns and news articles about it. I learned about the jaguar when someone told me the houndsman had shown him the jaguar in the back of his pickup truck in Tucson! Not long after that AGFD got a search warrant and searched the houndsman's ranch, but found no evidence of the jaguar. After the bust, I spent an hour with the two undercover agents and learned how they had conducted their "investigation." Bill Quimby

"I took your advise and sent a letter to the Director, Deputy Director and all five commissioners." Let us know what happens. Bill Quimby

"I am always amazed at your vast knowledge of hunting history in AZ." Thanks, but it was my job to know such things. I spent more than 30 years reporting on Arizona outdoor subjects, and was priveledged to have known most of the genre's newsmakers during those three decades.

Here is what the Arizona Wildlife Trophies book shows for Arizona jaguars: 1917 E.J. O'Doherty Helvetia (Santa Rita Mountains) 1924 Jack Funk Cibecue 1926 Fred Ott Nogales 1958 John F. Nutt Nogales 1959 Ed Scarla Santa Cruz County 1961 Arvid Benson "southeast Arizona" 1963 Terry Penrod Big Lake 1964 Russell Culbreth Ft. Apache Reservation 1965 Lawrence Magee Patagonia Mountains I photographed Larry Magee and his jaguar. It was huge! It also was the last jaguar to be legally taken in this state. He did not have it mounted and instead donated the skin and skull to the University of Arizona. I saw the skull again in about 1985, when a large cat of some kind was killing dogs in northwest Tucson. The skull was brought from a warehouse and compared to the tooth marks on a poodle killed by the mystery cat. The teeth marks matched, but the track found at the site were not a jaguar's. Game and Fish hired Ollie Barney, then the best lion hunter around, who rode the area and found no sign of a large cat. After that, reports of dog killing ended. Not listed above is a jaguar released from a cage by an outlaw outfitter and killed near Pena Blanca Lake by Jacques Herter, who apparently didn't know his "hunt" was "canned." The Herter family owned the largest mail order sporting goods company in the USA at the time, and he wrote several articles and a book about jaguars before wildlife manager Bob Hernbrode Sr. (father of the present game commissioner) busted the outfitter for illegal bear, lion and jaguar hunts. After jaguars were protected, two more were killed illegally. One was killed with shotguns by teenagers hunting ducks at a pond near Nogales. The other was caught and killed with hounds by a houndsman hunting mountain lions. I think it was in the Dos Cabeza Mountains. Bill Quimby

I called one in with a varmint call near the Willow Springs Ranch many years ago before they were listed as protected, but I wasn't fast enough to shoot it. When I reported it to Game and Fish, I was told there never had been a verified sighting in Arizona. I guess my sighting didn't count. Bill Quimby

Yipee! http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/20...poole-text.html

The guys on the panel that produced that book used to be very active in Arizona's hunting/conservation scene. I've not heard their names for years. Are any of them still around? Bill Quimby

"I live only about 15 minutes away from the AZGFD headquarters in Phoenix so I am going to go down there today and see if there is some body I can speak with that will change my tag." The chances of your speaking with someone who can solve your problem are slim if you just appear at an AZGFD office. Write those letters! If you send them to all the people I suggested, you will have a much better chance of getting the tag in the area you want. Bill Quimby

The guys on the panel that produced that book used to be very active in Arizona's hunting/conservation scene. I've not heard their names for years. Are any of them still around? Bill Quimby

GrB White Jr. Don't stop there. Send a letter to the Game and Fish Department director, along with copies (make sure your letter notes that copies are going to these peopel) to the regional supervisor in your area and all five commissioners, asking that the permit you received be voided and a new permit for the area you want be issued. Bill Quimby.

It's hard to believe that it was 27 years ago when Mike Cupell, Tom Dalrymple and the others worked on that book! Time flies, etc. Please let me know what it sells for. I have an autographed copy. Bill Quimby

After three years of failing to draw a single tag for anything I applied for, I drew turkey and javelina tags! 2008 could be my year. Bill Quimby

I voted for Expedition Safari, although I've only seen it a couple of times. I know the host, and of all the hunting shows his is the most professional. Actually, we don't have cable or satellite at our Tucson home so we see no hunting programs on our six local channels. We do have satellite TV at the cabin, but only the minimum package and only a few outdoor progams. I seldom watch them because they are so poorly produced and packaged. It bothers me to watch an amateur hour, no matter what is hunted or how it is killed. Most of these programs do hunters no favors. Bill Quimby

It should be no surprise to us that anti-hunters are going to flood National Geographic's offices with hate mail. Wouldn't it be great if it got just 100,000 letters from hunters politely thanking the editors for telling the world the truth about hunting? Bill Quimby