billrquimby

DesertBull: SCI lists the Alaska-Yukon moose -- the largest of North America's moose -- as weighing up to 1,400 pounds and standing around 7.5 feet tall at hump. I always thought they were a heck of a lot larger than that, but that's only because I had to cut them up and load them on horses. If I had to carry them out on my back I'd add at least another 1,000 pounds and swear they were 12 feet high. Coosefan: Take your .300 if it makes you feel more secure. I only wanted to point out that thousands of moose have been and still are killed cleanly with the .270 and similar calibers. Heck, the Indians up there use .22 Hornets on them. Get close, which isn't hard to do, and put your bullet into the right spot and you've got 3/4 ton of meat on the ground -- enough to keep you busy cutting and carrying for the next three or four days. The antlers alone on a good bull are a chore to carry. I've attached a pencil drawing I did based on a painting by Bob Kuhn. If the top of the hump is 7.5 feet up, the head of a man of average height will not quite reach the eye of this bull. BillQ

I would try to put your bullet low and just behind the "elbow," angling into the heart. Failing that, I'd try to hit both lungs. At the distance you'll probably shoot your moose I wouldn't expect a problem getting through a bull's shoulder with a good 150-grain bullet from a .270. Ditto with the 7mm and .30 calibers. The key words are "good bullets." You have lots of choices of bullets today. I've always loaded Nosler Partitions and they have failed me only once, and that was on a far-off mule deer of medium size. Swift A-Frames and several other brands have good reputations although I've not tried them. Your shots at a moose probably will be at 200 yards or less. I'd pick a bullet designed for "controlled expansion" that won't blow up on a shoulder but still will open up where it counts. Moose are relatively easy to stalk compared to our whitetails. You usually will have plenty of time to get off a well-aimed shot. Bill Quimby

"BillQ I actually was surprised to see you mentioned the .270 as being good for moose? That is my favorite gun and would love to take it but I thought it would be too light for the moose? I have a .300 Win and a 7mm RM I can take as well and was going to spend my time and $ on one of those guns instead. Like you said bullet placement is everything but I am not that good at bullet placement so I would feel better with some more punch just in case. " I grew up hunting before all the magnums came out and bullet placement was everything (just as it is today). My only moose were killed with my 7 mm Rem Mag, but I would not hesitate to take my .270. If you're "not that good at bullet placement" I suggest you do a lot of shooting on and off the bench. A poorly placed bullet from a .375 H&H Magnum or even a .458 Win Mag is not as effective as a properly placed one from a .270, 7mm or .similar rifle. Unfortunately, for many of us "more punch" means more recoil and more recoil too often means less accurate shooting. Compared to elk, moose are relatively easy to put down and a .270 with 150 grain bullet is perfectly adequate for them. Read O'Connor and see how many moose and grizzly bears he and his friends killed with theirs, and remember that they were shooting bullets that were far inferior to those we have today. BillQ

For September in Alaska, take a supply of Deet. Mosquitos in that part of the world can get as big as sparrows with spears. As for a rifle, anything in the .270, 7mm RM, .30-06, .300 Win Mag range is plenty for caribou and entirely adequate for moose. As with anything else, bullet placement is everything. You can expect rain for sure, and on a "drop" hunt you need to be in especially good shape physically. Take good raingear, good boots, a good packframe/backpack, a knife and sharpening stone, a take-down meat saw, your optics and more ammo than you expect to need. Depending upon the year and where you are you could have great to miserable weather, so pack clothes and sleeping gear accordingly. If you shoot a moose more than a mile or so from where you were dropped off you will be sorry you pulled the trigger. You cannot imagine how big moose (especially the Alaska-Yukon variety) get until you've walked up to one you've just shot. Just imagine dropping a Budweiser draft horse and having to cut it up and carry it out. I suggest you do not gut your moose as you would a deer or elk. Instead, remove the cape, head and quarters, leaving the neck, backbone, legs and entrails intact for the wolves and ravens. Be sure to buy wolf licenses. BillQ A tip for anyone who will be flying in SuperCubs and other small bush planes: Pack your rifle in a soft-side gun case inside a hard travel case. The hard case is for your commercial flights; leave it at your stop-over hotel or with your outfitter and carry the rifle in the bush plane in the soft case (unless you will be in a big Beaver or Otter). For long trips to Africa and Asia I removed the foam from my hard case and stuffed my clothes, underwear, etc. around my rifles I'd put in soft cases. You're allowed to check just two bags (they consider a gun case a "bag") on overseas flights. Another tip for long flights with guns: Leave plenty of time between connections, especially if you will be changing airlines. You may be able to run to catch a flight, but your luggage can't. Good luck. I envy you. There's nothing like your first hunting trip in an unknown environment.

Dogman68: I have been fortunate to have hunted all types of game all over the world and can say the purest form of hunting is with dogs. Bird dogs, retrievers or hound dogs -- it doesn't matter. I enjoy watching them work. In the early 1970s I spent 57 days over a two-year period hunting mountain lions with three different houndsmen. The first two were experienced 'coon hunters but only wannabe lion hunters. We rode all over kingdom come in some of southern Arizona's roughest places, and we got into a lot of trouble, mostly because we didn't know the trails or when to stop following cold tracks. We chased a lot of deer and got into some coati fights. We even chased a few lions. I learned a lot about lions and what they ate and how they lived ... and how not to hunt them ... during those 57 days. I finally shot one on Oracle Ridge in the Catlinas on my third day of hunting with Ollie Barney, who knew more about lion hunting than anyone in Arizona at the time. Although some people on this site hold lions in contempt I feel they are one of our state's two top game animals. I just haven't figured whether to rank them before or after our whitetails. BillQ

I agree that coyotes probablly eat more deer than lions, but deer aren't entirelyl vulnerable to coyotes. Once in the flat between Sunrise Lake and Slaughter Ranch I saw a coyote running like the dickens away from an antelope doe. I believe she would have killed that coyote if it hadn't scooted under a fence just before she caught up to it. Another time Bullwidgeon's grandfather and I were driving from Alpine to Big Lake when we spotted a coyote being chased by a mule deer. I don't know how often this happens or if an angry mother deer/antelope has ever caught a coyote, but it sure made me cheer for the them. Bill

Years ago, I was president of the Lander, Wyoming, One Shot Antelope Hunters Past Shooters Club and wanted an Arizona antelope conservation project for our Water for Wildlife Foundation. Because I thought water was what Sonoran antelope would need out in that dirty desert of the Cabeza Prieta I approached AGFD with a proposal to provide funds to build a water catchement. Officials, however, were afraid developing new water sources would encourage coyotes. At the time no one had ever seen a Sonoran pronghorn drinking at any known water source. So, instead of water, we gave $10,000 as seed money for a research project to determine numbers and movement. Until then no one had ever studied those endangered antelope! Our money apparently embarassed the U.S.Fish and Wildlife Service and others because research projects have been under way ever since. My point is those antelope have survived forever through dry and wet years. They apparently do better in dry years than coyotes do, and taking water to them may keep more coyotes alive -- ultimately resulting in fewer antelope. Kinda Catch 22. Only God knows. BillQ

Jim: You are correct about "undressed." My Oldtimer's Disease gets me confused from time to time. That's a double meat whopper of a pig anyway, and losing 48 pounds in butchering seems extreme. Javelinas tend to get heavier with every step you take. It helps to use the pig carrier I posted on this forum earlier, though. BillQ

" ... he ended up being 73 lbs undressed and I got 25 lbs of meat from him. " A 73-pound "undressed" javelina would weigh 80-90 pounds on the hoof. That's about what an average young Coues buck will weigh, but it would be a REALLY HUGE hog. Have you thought about suing your butcher? Losing 48 pounds in the butchering process seems extreme. Years ago, Game and Fish used to have roadblocks where they weighed javelinas. Local sporting goods stores also had "big pig" contests. If I remember, the average of all javelinas coming through the roadblocks was something like 37 or 38 pounds field dressed. A 45- to 48-pound hog would win a bunch of rifles in the contests. The largest javelina I ever saw was killed with a bow by a guy named Stan Snitzer and it looked like a small bear. I've forgotten what it weighed but it was in the low-60-pound range. At the time it was considered the state record for weight. BillQ

500 yards? Where will you be hunting? I've killed maybe a dozen Wyoming antelope and helped at least that many friends shoot theirs at the Lander One Shot Antelope Hunts over the past 22 years. Neither I nor anyone with me had to shoot more than 250 yards. Most shots were considerably less than that. BillQ

MVD requires that all residing in Arizona for X number of months register their cars and obtain an Arizona driver's license. There may be an exclusion for non-resident students, but I've not heard of it.

I've seen the antlers, and they're even more impressive than the photo. Billy and Ben Mattausch are great hunters, as is the rest of the Mattausch family, including BullWidgeon. BillQ

Your grandfather told me about his 45-minute hunt. Congrats to you both. Seeing photos and talking with him has me thinking about hunting javelinas again. I may try a HAM hunt with a flintlock next year if my health allows. There's a big herd on some land we own near Nogales. See you on the mountain. BillQ

There is no basis for my thinking this, but I strongly suspect that a fire in the lambing area on the north side of Pusch Ridge had a great deal to do with the decline of the sheep on that mountain. The south side of the ridge got hit hard by hundreds of hikers each week, but the north side remained a sanctuary until the fire stimulated new growth in the lambing area. I do know that there was a dedicated group of hunters who went ut and glassed up the sheep as often as they could. A year or two after the fire, just about everyone started glassing up mountain lions. The high grass and brush brought on by the fire gave the lions an edge over the sheep, IMO. I also suspect that building the resort and condominiums on the north side didn't help, either. The Pusch Ridge desert sheep are different from the RM bighorns in Morenci in that people invaded their secure areas. In Morenci, the sheep still have a place to go to escape people when so inclined. Incidentally, I flew on a game department helicopter sheep survery years ago that began in Sabino Canyon and went across the south slope of the Catalinas and around to above what now is Catalina State Park. The purpose supposedly was to learn if sheep were found in places other than Pusch Ridge. We lifted off at the end of the road in the canyon flew 50-60 mph across the mountain and didn't slow down until we got to Pima Canyon. Then we flew around in the canyon until we spooked some sheep. From there we went around the ridge and hit the three or four canyons where sheep were being seen regularly. We really didn't "hunt" in places where they hadn't been reported. Also, a couple of years after sheep were planted in Redfield Canyon, I drove up on a small group of ewes on the road up Oracle Ridge. I had just entered the pine zone below the fire station. Not long after that a collared ram from Pusch Ridge was reported in Redfield. A collared ram from the Catalinas also was seen in the Picacho Mountains. BillQ

Looking forward to moving back to Greer in three or four weeks, watching elk, and helping family and friends get their turkeys when the seasons open. BillQ

I would like to see the law that says we can't possess skulls with antlers or horns that we've found in the field. If there is such a law or regulation we need to change it! BillQ

"Clear? Just remember, the key is to contact the Arizona Game and Fish Department prior to picking up the part. There is no way these parts may be lawfully possessed until the department has determined the cause of death. " No way am I going to hike out and return to town to call a wildlife manager when I find the head and antlers of a 400-plus bull elk, then hike back with the WM to retrieve it. This sounds like a bureaucracy's opinion of what some obscure law said. I've come across dozens of dead deer, elk and javelinas, and a couple of antelope over the past 60 years afield but I won't say here what I did when I found them. The bone cops might come knocking on my door. BillQ

Did your friend get a lawyer and appeal? I've not heard of a similar law in Arizona. What does it prohibit? How do we get it thrown out? I hope there is a statute of limitations because I could be jailed for life for past transgressions. BillQ

Bret: Congratulations on your hog. I was over at your grandfather's house yesterday and got to see Billy's huge Coues buck he killled with a bow. Has it been posted on this website? It reallly is something to see! BillQ

Awful1 I find it amazing that a state would prosecute anyone for picking up bones and dried-out antlers or horn. Bill Q

Josh: What's New Mexico's law about shed hunting? I seem to remember reading somewhere that we couldn't pick up sheds on public land and had to report anything we found to the game department. Was I having a nightmare? BillQ

A herd almost always hangs around the windmill just off the right side of the road as you enter Brown Canyon. Bill Quimby

S1438: UNLAWFUL FEEDING OF WILDLIFE Dear Abby: The politicians in our state want to pass a law that would make it illegal to put food out to attract wild animals. I buy a salt block every year and put out a couple of big sacks of corn every month for the starving squirrels and blue jays at my cabin in Arizona's high country. I don't want to break the law, Abby, so please tell me how I can keep the deer away? In a quandry in Greer, BillQ

"I got hit some years ago at about 60 yards and it stung like a bee. Luckily I was wearing safety glasses. Luckily he was shooting a .28gauge. I think the wounds would have been worse. David " Hey guys, don't knock the 28. I shoot a 20 and a 28 ... I retired my 16 thirty years ago because it kicked me too much and have never owned a 12. A 10 gauge or a 12 gauge doesn't "hit harder" than Chaney's and my little 28. The difference is in the number of shot and the size of the pattern. What angers me is how the VP gets only a warning for hunting without a required license. Think any of us would get the same treatment in Texas? BillQ

"how can they hit you with civil charges on a deal like that when the original charges were dropped?" Ask O.J. Simpson about the difference between civil and criminal trials. As I remember it, there wasn't a regular civil trial, only a Game and Fish Commission hearing held in Yuma where an "assessment" was slapped on the hunter for the state's loss of an animal that AGFD never proved was illegally taken. The amount, as I remember it, was something like $10,000, and it was based on a trophy appraiser's estimate of the value of the antlers. I don't know whether the deer was poached or not, but the court agreed that AGFD did not have sufficient evidence to prosecute. Imposing that assessment after failing to find the hunter guilty in criminal court seems chicken #%@ to me. BillQ