idgaf

I understand the disconnect between the two arms of CAPAZ. I understand the tags will support education to the 70% of the AZ residents that have no opinion on hunting. What I am asking you in the simplest terms how is the political arm funded? IF you ask me to draw a conclusion from your somewhat evasive answers, I would say the political arm is funded by the elite hunters that money is secondary and hunting areas that right now, money cannot buy, every year would be their interest. Please enlighten me and let me know how this conclusion is wrong.

the strategy employed by CAPAZ has been thoroughly explained. But we reached out to over 20,000 hunters in this State and got a handful of active volunteers. Perhaps you should do some self reflections on your own contributions instead of trying to find fault with the group that bailed us out. I sat through the meeting and took notes. I do not understand how CAPAZ is funded (maybe I missed that portion) Also, it was mentioned by CAPAZ Dignitaries that you only put your strategy together for the tags two weeks ago. So if you could tell me or point me to the web site where CAPAZ shows where they will get the money for the political battles I would be appreciative? Also, Did the organization that you are part of raise the money for this fight against HSUS? Or did that money which they used come directly out of your pocket?

https://youtu.be/npD4i1X4ofM 29 minutes of the meeting

From what Im told he was one of the originators of the first tag grab. I would not trust him with a javelina tag in 25m to auction. He made mention AZSFWC is no more. Play the game GOOGLE THIS Jim Unmacht --and their face book page just posted something an hour or two ago.

idgaf - The main obstacle at this stage is how those funds can be used. If AZGFD generates them in any form, through the current donation channel (as I suggested), stamps, you name it... they will earmark those funds to a general fund. This concept sounds great until we consider what that really means - new trucks, larger PC monitors, fancier decorations, blah blah blah. Isn't that just more of the same ol' lame ol' government gross mismanagement of funds? Who's in for that? Not me. SO, this is where it gets interesting and where the conversation has actually turned a corner. As mentioned in my previous post and to your point as well; yes many of the members at the meeting did not give you the impression that they had much intention of working hard to come up with alternatives. BUT, this is where WE come in to play. These folks are clearly a bit tired of only hearing from hunters when someone sounds the bell and the mob comes running. The very same people who go back to their lives and leave these evil board members to go back to doing all of dirty work we reap rewards from i.e. water tanks being repaired, water hauled, fences mended, and on and on... This group is clearly not getting younger (no offense intended here) and there is NOBODY in line to help fill the void. The more I understand, the less I believe it's about the tags. I could be flat ars wrong. But I don't think so. These people need help, they need fresh ideas, and they need your help to hound the H E DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS out of the AZGFD reps to figure out a different way to get this job done. If we don't ride this out and get our hands dirty, they are going to get the job done the best they see fit AND we will just have to live with the results. I am with you and I will do the research this weekend when some of my work stuff gets out of the way. The idea that I would pitch is a separate line item on your hunting and fishing license like they have for search and rescue in Colorado (or the 911 fee on you phone bill) that way they can easily define the monies for education.

Thanks for the clarification with that misunderstanding cleared up I truly believe the ada is to be a worthwhile organization with the best best interests of wildlife and hunting at their core. I still disagree with reallocation of tags using the feudal system. I will edit momentarily Fred

I left my camera on my desk at work(hopefully) I will post in the am

The guy with the pony tail at the corner of the tables. If that was you, you had several Freudian slips regarding AZFWC while mentioning that you are not AZFWC.

This is my take from last nights meeting. Let me preface what I am about to say with there are some really good people with passion for wildlife and hunting on the ADA. I did not get that feeling some of the leaders of the Conserve and Protect board. One of the things I do for work is negotiate deals, so many times when I ask a question I am not paying attention to what they say but how they react to the question/situation to get a more accurate answer of what they are really thinking. (in poker that would be called 'tells') According to my interpretation of what this contingency is trying to do two things; one is education to the 70% of residents of Arizona that are neither for nor against hunting. Secondly, and more passionately they want to fight the HSUS. According to them they want the tags for education only and to not fight the HSUS. I pushed them a little bit to see how much money they need for education of the non-hunters and finally they came up with an amount of 500-750k. Bruce came up with the idea of adding a 1.00 to hunting licenses to get that amount (534,000 hunting licenses were sold last year according to the elk guy) This was dismissed relatively quickly. Conserve and Protects goal for the evening was to try to figure out how many tags the public would be comfortable with giving them so they can raise money for 'education' My take on this is, they do not just want the tags for money, they want the tags for the prestige of being able to allocate tags like their big brothers(elk society, arizona super raffle, antelope foundation). Because of ego, short of somebody handing them ten million dollars they are fixated on getting tags and as many as they can. HSUS war chest number was thrown around many times and it was a number over 200,000,000. I find that very hard to believe that they would spend .1% of that to end lion hunting in AZ with how quickly they dropped out of the getting lion hunting on the ballot. Once again, in my opinion, they do not want alternatives to raising money for education which may or may not be needed. They want tags. I do not believe they have done the necessary research to quantify anything yet, but that's what these meeting could be used for and maybe some more studying of the numbers. Bruce brought up some very valid points that I would consider and am going to run with a little bit to raise the necessary capitol to move the 70% without an opinion to the hunting side. I feel the super raffle guy and ADA have integrity, they elk guy may, but the Conserve and Protect guy I would not trust. my camera ran out of batteries about twenty minutes into it. if you want to watch the first part, I can post on you tube. Also they made mention that AZFWC is no more and has been disbanded, but I did see a few Freudian slips from the Conserve and Protect guy in regards to AZFWC so you be the judge.

I went. Ill post some video when I get moment. One of the people with solutions gave an idea that I will study.

I find the irony that the working class has the most questions with this initiative and ironically they have to work so they will not have time to ask the questions you keep evolving the answers on. (this feels like the Greek battle of Marathon)My home is three hours from the valley, I will spend 10 hours at work and the three hours traveling, I will not be at my freshest intellectually or aesthetically and I will very likely be walking into a good ole boy gentlemen club hostile environment. COUNT ME IN! I want honest non spin-able answers. If you have a question that you would like asked, IM me and I will do my best to present it. Where and when?

Same group of elk. two had dropped one hadnt. maybe the antler I found on the road.

Nephews picked up these behind his house

Exactly, the kings get rich and the commoners get the minimum. I think we need to start calling it the fuedal system of game management Speaking very selfishly, I only have three animals left for my big ten solo with a bow. Hopefully, I can get those final two hard to draw tags before this passes and transfer my obsession to a different outlet. So much for hunter retention. Had g&f made any mention of needing money for education. I get their emails quite frequently and have not seen a request?

Ok, changing the topic slightly, taking tags is the only option to raise money? Also g&f not very long ago mentioned they had a monetary surplus and even considered briefly lowering the cost of tags. Now they need to create these elitist tags for the general fund? Tell me what I am missing.

Color coded

http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2016/200/867/2016-200867381-0dc5bd6a-9.pdf from their IRS 990 form. Give me a minute and I will put it on that spreadsheet from earlier

I may be wrong on this, so somebody please fact check me. If it is run like the governors tags. They will be given to an organization that represents that species, (that's where 100% comes from) of which its business as normal for that nonprofit. Taking xx amount for administration fees and the rest going to said project. . Once again not 100% on this and I will have to do more research once available. If you look at the donations for AZFWC most of the money is given to the boards pet projects.

Yep totally understand. Very likely their will be a percentage given to auctioneers (COPD or AZFWC) for a fee like in utah. lets say 30% like utah. Do you think their will not be a financial gain for the presenters? If you want I can update that spreadsheet I created a little earlier to show where where the 'charitiable monies' went for Azfwc

Obviously I am not privy to the close door meetings. But if walks like a duck and talks like a duck then ..... AZFWC was founded by Pete C. at the direction of Don Peay the founder of Utah SFW. (If I saying something incorrectly please let me know)They have a noted connection (google the names together). Coop for whatever they are calling themselves and AZFWC have essentially the same players. Now, honestly, do you think there is not a connection between the three?

little too late to do the right thing now isnt it? Our department should have made education a priority with the millions they receive in funding. Their education budget may have been low but who's fault is that? Theirs. They have all the power to put whatever money they please towards educating people. But they relaxed and didnt think they needed to. Well guess what? Now they know they needed to. And to fix it quick they offer up our tags as sacrifice. I'd bet if every employee at game and fish took a $1000 pay cut and wardens didnt get new trucks every year they'd have all the money they'd ever want for education. But that will never happen. Instead let's use publics tags to make up for us being stupid and lazy. G&F has a surplus of money. Thats how you can explain the billboards around the valley with owls on it or a four year old with a sun fish.

you would agree that this group and AZFWC have a great many of the same participants. Don Peay according to some help create AZFWC. They may not be the same but they have the same parents. http://www.coueswhitetail.com/forums/topic/30760-hb2072-letter-from-azsfw/

Information taken from http://azsfwc.org/about/ and the email Jay Scott printed in regards to Conserve protect arizona. I added the arrows. Forgot to credit column on the right is the AZFWC board of Directors.

Let's play the game, Google this "Utah Sportsman for fish and wildlife" https://www.gohunt.com/read/news/utah-division-of-wildlife-under-fire-for-possible-corruption#gs.cqSUHD8

What year did they start they tag program?