Hyperwrx

Good to know. Too bad our state bobcat prices weren't more closely tied to NAFA prices.

Over the past 2 seasons there has been less fluctuation in grey fox pelts than bobcat pelts at the ATA sale. Are you thinking grays are dropping at the NAFA sale? Most of the best fur coming out of AZ goes to NAFA each year.

Call the thick stuff. Use a shotgun. Cottontail distress.

I have lived almost 5 decades in the area. Back in the good old days (70-80s) we predator called all over QC. Now its overrun with homes and developments. We had so many coyotes running around we called them with handcalls as kids. Now only a few family groups remain, sneaking around eating out of garbage cans. The coyotes in question cross Hunt Highway and hang out in the day on the West end of the San Tan park in the hills. West of North South Power Rd line is Gila River Indian reservation (unhuntable). The stupid San Tan Park now includes the North end of the San Tans and they do not permit hunting or trapping in the park. Before it was a park we used to go back in there and call/hunt them. Even though we are out of the city limits and on a county island, AZG&F regs limit shooting a firearm 1/4 away from a occupied residence. Using a bow is really the only option. 4-5 years ago a lion migrated down into the San Tans and then down into the neighborhoods eating dogs and cats. Try THAT in your PJs and your compound bow! http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/local/article_52bde056-7f1c-11df-a4ef-001cc4c002e0.html I took my SLR a few years back and hiked in straight back off Wagon Wheel Rd. I called in 7 coyotes in 1 group and took a lot of pictures of them. Here is a few of the San Tan coyotes I took pictures of. You most certianly shot one of these or their offspring. Keep up the good work!

Nate, thanks for restating that. I included NAFA as one of my 3 options for trappers to sell their fur. NAFA, like the others has its pros and cons. I would not base my opinion of local sales on last years Kingman sale. That was a poor example of a local sale because the buyers had most the sellers cornered on price because the sale was so late int he season and many didn't know about NAFA. Buyers already had their orders filled from other state sales and in my opinion, took advantage of sellers. G.K. for sure did. NAFA's cons in my opinion: 1. You are paying to ship your fur, which for me would cost a good chunk of cash to ship and insure my fur. You could use a middle man to pick up and handle shipping your fur, but they will take a cut. Cindy Seff and her husband are selling themselves as NAFA middlemen in that process. Make no mistake, they wouldn't do it if they weren't making money. Bob is talking about having a table set up at the Kingman Sale to help trappers fill out the NAFA paperwork and get it on its way. 2. Once you ship your fur to NAFA, you are at their mercy on sale prices. In the past, AZ bobcat prices have generally been good. We've had many of our bobcats in lot top lots- #1 or #2 for many years. That's the top bobcats in the entire North American Continent. That's saying something about that trapper and how he puts up fur. BUT if your bobcat isn't good quality you are taking whatever they sell it for. $50 or $1200. 3. NAFA commissions are based on how much fur you sell and its sale price. The more you sell the lower your commission goes. Sell just a few bobcats at $200 and I 'believe' you're paying up to 10% of your total. 4. At a local sale you get your check right then (Kingman) or in a week after the sale (ATA). There is something to be said for getting your money right away. NAFA you get the check in the mail MONTHS after the sale if your fur was in the first season sale. That being said, $200 more per bobcat above what you were previously offered is a no brainer! I sell my fur and support the local trappers association. I believe I got a fair price for my fur. I averaged higher than the ATA state average and that's good considering all my bobcats are lower desert cats. When it comes to making money selling fur, money talks and BS walks. Each trapper can do what he feels is best for him.

Coyote was hit right in the vitals. Good shot with the bow.

roninflag- The fur market is a commodity like many other goods and is impacted at many levels from several variables. Current indicators shows a continued decline of general fur prices, both ranch and wild fur. That being said, here in AZ we primarily focus on lynx cat and grey fox. High end bobcats (perfect coloring and heavy pelt) will still be snatched up by fur buyers for good prices $400-700, but mid-grade, poorly handled desert bobcats will see lower prices ($300-$100). Grey fox has shown less of a price fall as bobcats. Last year I believe the ATA average was $20-23 a grey pelt. Contrary to what others might say AZ Coyotes will be nowhere close to the industry quality coyote. Genetically we don't have the color the garment industry wants. The heavy pale coyotes are the ones seeing the $75/pelt prices we get excited about. The typical Arizona coyote will see a $10-15 price tag. Hardly worth the effort. Last year a fella went and got his fur buyers license from AZ G&F and bought up all those cheap coyotes for $5-15 each from the ATA fur sale and sold them elsewhere for significantly more. Lots of the artsy fartsy stores in Sedona and Jerome sell a typical desert coyote tanned hide for $60. Wall hanging decor snowbirds want. The variables that are impacting sales this year are the terrible economy Russia is having due in part to the economic sanctions the US put on them for their invasion into Ukraine. Our last recession will pale in comparison to what they are seeing now and will for the next few years. Also China caught and sent to prison a few more mink fur buyers who failed to pay import taxes on the millions of mink they bring into the country. Word went around quickly that China was a no show to the early fur sale. Prices on muskrat and coon are dismal. The silver lining is bobcats, if handled properly, can still make you a small bit of coin in you are not investing tons of time getting them. If your fur handling skills are average, do not expect to make more than $150 a bobcat. Last year fur buyers said lots of Arizona fur was not put up well. Greasy fur, goofball stretching techniques, poorly sewn up pelts, and general mishandling resulted in dozens of trappers ticked off and 'no sale' their fur at the ATA and Kingman sale. Also we have a habit as new trappers to take small and sow bellied females because we have no self restrain when something is in our cage. You are not going to get hardly anything for a 12 pound female bobcat that stretches 30 inches so why harvest it? Late season female bobcats oftentimes have kittens. Their belly fur will develop damaged fur around the teets. Off color and missing fur is the result and buyers do not want it. 'Owl's eyes' comes from a female who has a late litter of kittens last year and her fur has not yet recuperated. The belly fur around the teets, when fluffed up and blow on, will show less growth and often be slightly off color than the surrounding snow white belly fur. Ideally, you only want to take full grown female bobcats with no fur damage in Late December to last of Feb or early March. That is when fur is prime and worth the most to the seller. Badgers in this market will get you a $20 bill if you know what you're doing. Worth more as a keepsake in my opinion. Fur sellers (trappers & hunters) have 3 main options to sell fur: Arizona Trappers Association Fur Sale Briarpatch Fur Sale NAFA Fur Sale All have their pros and cons. My philosophy, which I have practices for many years, is sell quality fur early. Buyers have quotas on top quality bobcats (15-20% of our AZ market) they are trying to fill. They don't want mid-grade bobcats (80-85% of our AZ market). I wont do your fur for you but I will help any trapper who needs help putting up fur. I will loan stretchers, stand next to and coach you as you flesh, sew, skin, and stretch bobcats and foxes. I do it each and every season and have already had several trappers show up to my home these past 2 months to stretch bobcats. There are resources out there to insure you get the most money for your fur. Use them.

In the desert, gray fox can be found in hills with a lot of rocks. They dig out dens in and around the rocks. Kit fox are found more in flat desert. They dig burrows in the ground and are much more nocturnal than grays. I seldom see kit fox cruising around or coming to the call during the daytime. The ones I have called were all at daybreak. Grays come to the call any time of the day.

Ears are much larger. Even though in my photo of the kit fox looks like has orange on it like a grey fox, it really doesn't. Its fur is grey and tan only. Not much black or orange anywhere. The tails are much bushier.

You live in Gilbert. No need to go so far North. The area between Phoenix and Tucson is loaded with coyotes, bobcats, and foxes. Take the I-10 South and stop at all the small forming towns along the route. Hunt the outskirts of town where the agricultural fields meet the desert. Take the 79 South and hit the hills to the East and West for fox. Oro Valley is teaming with coyotes. There are more bobcats in the Tucson area that just about anywhere. Bloody Basin Rd gets hammered.

Yeah I always have leg out. Thought about doing some with the legs in just to see if there was a difference in price. The ringtails were all caught in big rocky canyons up north here. I'll have to get back to you on the trade. The ringtails are half my nephews so I'll contact him to see if it's alright with him. We have caught 8 ringtails up here. Never new they were up here. Never saw one and we never caught one, even back when we were leg hold trapping. Brian I haven't caught a ringtail since back in high school. Cool looking pelts with the long banded tail. Yeah let me know on the trade. I have a kit fox pelt saved from last year. Grey on the back and tan on the stomach. Bushier tail than typical fox. I know some areas where I bet there are a mess of them, but man it's a drive for me. Fur market looks to be down 20-30% from last year unfortunately. Buyers are going to try to capitalize on this and take advantage of trappers hard work. Here is the Kit I skinned and still have the pelt. Good luck on the fur and keep at it!

You always have nice fox and you put them up well. You always legs out them? Your ringtail are generally found near big rocks? I'll trade you a lower desert kit fox pelt for a ringtail.

You'd think as much as you follow me and all my comments on CouesWhiteTail you'd be a better predator hunter by this point. Let's set a goal for you to actually call in and shoot a bobcat this winter season rather than spot one from the road in your truck and take a pot shot at it. Let me know if you need some help. Shoot me a PM rather than argue in this thread any more. Kudos to the hunter above who actually called in this giant of a bobcat. Nevada stretch him on a wooden stretcher and do a good job sewing up the hole(s). You must have used a fur friendly caliber because I see minimal pelt damage.

Very nice furred up bobcat. A bobcat that size, properly cared for, could put some nice money in your pocket. That bobcat was taken at dusk I presume, 1/2 hour past sundown.

It's hosted in Williams, Arizona this year. It goes from state to state and we're lucky to have it here. Home court advantage. I can post more information if people are interested.

I have a lot of guys ask me to sell it now that Remington has discontinued the caliber. Mine is a Remington Model 7. with a Bell & Carlson Carbelite stock and a Leupold VX3c. That gun shoots ways better than I do.

In the Cholla cactus even. Ouch.

No idea this far before the event. I'll post it up when I find out.

I was contacted by Ron Day, the president of the ATA, and asked to post this information in various trapping forums to get the word out. The ATA Fur Sale will be held on Saturday, Feb 21st, at the Gila County Fairgrounds. Check in will be from noon Friday, until Saturday at 10AM. Come and participate in the largest and most successful fur sale in Arizona.

The competition was invite only but get in contact with the right people and you can get in. Enterance is $250. Payout is down to 12th or 15th place. Big dog and little dog also. Winners walk away with several thousand dollars. Top teams have to pass a polygraph after check in. They've caught teams cheating before. You arrive at the check in the afternoon. Big get together and rules are gone over. Then the Calcutta auction begins. Once you pay out or nobody bids on you, you are free to take off and begin traveling to your hunting area (state). When I competed in Colorado, we drove back to AZ to hunt. You hunt a full day, call in that evening with your numbers up to that point, and hunt again in the morning until checkin at mid-day or so. If 2 teams arrive at checkin with the same number of kills, winner is whoever arrived first. Pretty much double digets will get you in the money. Guys who win generally have some sacred piece of ground they are hunting on that has had no hunters on it for quite some time. I have only hunted public land for that competition and have really never done very well, but it's fun. The WCCC will be in Arizona again next year, then it's off to Colorado again. Cortez I believe.

There are a number of guys that use .17 calibers for coyotes. Most opt for a cartrdge with a bit more powder behind it, say a .17 Remington but I have taken a number with my .17 Fireball. Bullet placement is crucial and at 3800-4000 fps, a splash makes an aweful mess.

The Arizona Trappers Association webpage is not operational right now. I went there to find the convention date. I'll contact the president and get the info.

That's all tall order. Each type of animal needs to be put up slightly different. I'd say go to Trapperman.com and look on the forums and try to gather information. Bobcats are needing to be stretched Nevada style. Be more specific and I could try to explain stuff.

Not sure exactly what you mean by selling at the beginning of the season. Do you mean contacting a fur buyer and meeting him in December to sell him your fur as opposed to waiting until an Auction in Feb or March? Big difference if that's what you mean. A fur buyer is in it to make himself money. Don't let anyone tell you differently. It's their business. If you are selling your fur to a buyer that has nobody competing against him and he knows you need the money, you will get less for your fur. I'd say 1/3 to 1/2 less. By putting your fur in a organized fur sale you force the fur buyers into a situation where they have competition on the bidding of your fur. Buyer A wants your 4 pelts. Buyer B wants them also. Buyer B knows buyer A wants them bad so he forces buyer A bids on other fur before before your lot in hopes he doesn't have enough cash later on in the sale. The buyers are all playing money and head game with each other to come out making money. Most buyers have tens of thousand of dollars to spend at a fur sale. Some even over 100K. A typical fur sale is moving $300,000-500,000 in money believe it or not. Now everyone understands that people need money at certain times. Some guys don't or can't wait until Feb or March as they need money now for a reason (Christmas!). Expect to take a hit in the pocketbook but hey, something is better than nothing. I always hear about guys complaining about the prices they get by selling early but that's the downside of needing money in hand quick. I know a local buyer who will buy fur whenever you want to sell it. Dennis Kubish from Globe Hide and Fur. He will meet you and treat you fairly. FYI- the market is slated to drop 10% or so they're predicting. ATA Fur Sale photos

Tube them but its not like pulling a hide off a bobcat or orther animal. You have to cut it all off bit by bit. Doesn't peel well and fleshing it is tough.