wardsoutfitters

Was the arrow berried in the ground when you retrieved it? I just cant believe it didn't open I have shot quail and the vortex heads still open. Well sorry to hear about the animal lost. But think about this the vortex line of heads still in the closed posisition have a 7/8" to 1" cutting dia which is bigger then most of the fixed bladed heads out there. Again we have to start blaming ourselves instead of our equipment. as for shooting a spike bull and o-ring not moving I think thats a bunch of crap, you do realize that if you remove the vortex heads from what ever you shoot the O-ring slides back in place You cant even keep the blades closed if you wrap metal bread ties around them. I know because this is how we used to practice with them and after the 2nd shot they still deployed. It's phyisically imposible for a sound vortex head not to open unless you weld the blades in place or bend the blades so bad you have to hammer them back into the head.I stand by that 100% and if you can prove me wrong then I give you 3 dozen of the heads of your choice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ya I need some good arizona music !!!!

If you would like to see some good Coues and Elk footage go to YouTube and search under Ward's Outfitters.Here Is The Link http://www.youtube.com/wardsoutfitters Please Let Me Know What You Think . If you like them please Rate them!! Thanks Steven

Yes My dad is the inventor of the vortex line of heads!! But I will say there are a bunch of good mechanicals out there. As for the rage not passing thru the shoulder I will say I "think" they hit the shoulder blade but I cant be sure because we never recovered the animals. All I am stressing is if you are going to shoot mechanical heads please pick the ones that fit my discription I'm onlt saying this because there isn't a mechanical we haven't tested.

Fatfootdoc Did you recover the arrow? If the blades were side to side then you would have not caught the top of the lungs!! This case sounds to me like another bow hunter blaming their equipment and not them selves for making a bad shot !!!! All I have to say is that I have harvested over 100 big game animals with vortex heads and have witnessed approximately another 100 harvested with out failure. I will go into this. the problem with rage heads is you have to much blade to push through bone if you infact hit bone. You see all the advertisement of the Rage out penitrating fixed heads and thats a bunch of crap. The only reason they penetrate so well in the gel in there adds, is because the large entrance reduces shaft pinch. We all know if you shoot a feild tip into a target it almost always out penetrates a broadhead well this is not the case when shot into gel, because of shaft pinch,. I watched clients shoot two coues bucks at less then 30 yards this year in the sholder blades , we lost both bucks because of poor penetration. Its simple if you are going to shoot a mechanical head you want one that if fully deployed after it gets past the hard stuff on the entrance . you also want one that cuts a 7/8" or 1" hole on the entrance and I mean cutts not punches like a bunch of the heads out there . by this I am saying ,make sure the blades are fully sharpened from tip to base, if they are not your asking for trouble with deflection and poor penetration and lost energy atached is a picture of a buff I shot on house rock 42 yards, 76#'s with a vortex mini-max 75 grn 2" cutting dia

I talked to leonard ornways assistant yesterday and I was told that this will not be a issue for this year , that it will be discussed in the december meeting at the soonest and if passed wouldn't come into effest untill september 2009. This is suprising because when I first talked to leonard he told me that it would be decided on at the april 2008 meeting. Now we have plenty of time to fight this rule change

LETS NOT FORGET THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE A ISSUE AT THE GAME AND FISH MEETINGS IN A FEW DAYS !!!!!!!!!!!!

I would suggest that we all start getting petitions signed. We have to take these signed petitions to the meetings and read the names of every person who is against this issue. Tony you gave a list of things that the game and fish have to do to get a new law passed. When I talked to leonard at game and fish he said that this issue was going to be presented to the commission for the final rule making sometime in april. this would mean the again they have kept the wool pulled over our eyes and went thru a bunch of steps without letting the public know that this was a issue. Leonard also stated to me that I as ward's Outfitters wouldn't want to be on the fronT page of the new york times telling people that my hunters harvest animals over bait. I then informed leonard that I do not care what the general public thinks about how I hunt as long as I am doing it within the laws. Do they not care that we are the ones paying their pay checks with hunting license and tag sales!!!! Man I dont have much more to say WE HAVE TO SPEEK UP FOR OUR RIGHTS AS HUNTERS AND KEEP GAME AND FISH FROM HURTING US EVEN MORE.

Here are a few Pictures from tis past month.

You nee a R&W Custom string they are guaranteed for a year his number is 520-507-0255 ask for Rodney

Sweet Buck !! Theres a life time full of memories !!!!!!

No we couldn't hunt 27 in dec. but we could hunt it in aug. and jan. But we did loose OTC archery in unit 1 to the best of my knowledge it will be a draw. I hope we don't loose 27 that would really SUCK! you see if we harvest 20% we loose the december hunt in that unit !!!! This is where it all begins!!!!!!!!!!!

What leonard said Is that if archers harvest over 20% in any given unit then we will loose the December season in that unit. Didn't we loose december 27 last year?

Great the commission needs to address public input. What I don't understand is how A PROPOSAL IS ORIGINATED TO BEGIN WITH? WHO DOES THE ORIGINAL INPUT THAT ACTUALLY CREATES A PROPOSAL? Once a proposal is made anyone that is against it is two steps behind. People against the proposal need to get info out and motivate people to go to meetings ect, but the proverbial cat is out of the bag and unless there is an overwhelming outcry proposals usually become policy. I see the real power is in the actual creation of the proposal. What are the guidelines, scientific basis, need analysis or political connections that are needed for a proposal. Who has the commissions ear? Probably not a bow hunter. In other words who is yanking the chain of game and fish to MAKE CHANGES to any policy. I believe their needs to be more transparency at the beginning of the proposal. Does the GF and the commission have a top down approach; have a desired policy and then come up with reasons for it. "Gee those guys are whacking all our trophy deer over salt. What reason can we come up with to outlaw salt." Or is it bottom up, "Our scientific studies have proven without a doubt that the deer cocaine is effecting the sperm count in all the deer on the rim. Maybe we should outlaw salting." Which method is most likely. Bob I talked to Leonard Ordaway today form Game And Fish. I asked him about the salt and baiting issue at hand. He seemed suprised that I would even have knowldge of what was going on. He stated that the issue of baiting has been submited thru the rule review process and will go back to the commision eairly summer for the final rule making process. I expressed that we as hunters of az should be made aware of the rule changes, He stated that it will be posted on the web site two weeks before it goes for final say. I also said that it needs to be readly available and we as hunters need to be notified if something was going to be changed that effects us hunters, he disagreed with me and said it would be on the web site and It's Up to us to look these things up. He also said that the proposed rule would read to this effest " intentionally placed substances to atract animals are illegal" , Kind of broad to me. He also said that the commision will look for the publics input on this matter , But as we all know I think their minds are made up. Also sounds to me from what I got form the conversation units 22 and 23 might be closed just like unit 27 this year. but dont quote me. basically we have two weeks to express how we feel about this whenit comes to the table. Thanks STEVEN

You know I think most of the people on this site are for salt and feed. If not then oh well, we as hunters need to look after each other and stand behind one another. I'll be the first to say that I do not gun hunt for big game. I haven't since I was 14 years old BUTI will also be the first to say that I will defend anything that effects any of my fellow hunter friends we all must stick together no matter how we feel about certain issues. The bottom line is we as hunters must stick together on even the smallest issues at hand, united we stand, devided we will fall!!! I will ask all of you that attend the commision meetings to ask about this issue. Please print out the harvest data and take that with you in defence of archers over harvesting.

I mainly guide in the southeast units

I really think if they had mandatiory firearms reportation they would find they are harvesting to many animals. and they would have to lower the number of permits offered.

I got with Game and Fish yeasterday and would have posted this sooner but my computer took a crap and I just got it fixed. I asked the game and fish to send me harvest data form the 2007 seasons Archery and Rifle. Here are The Facts unit Archery Rifle 1 15 17 2b 1 37 3b/3c 16 68 4a/4b 4 20 5a/5b 3 79 6a 12 74 6b 15 37 7/e/w 24 199 8 7 135 9 4 119 10 5 105 11m 10 0 12a 70 0 12ae 3 118 12aw 16 464 12b/bw 3 199 13a 7 37 15a 3 0 15b 8 0 16a 5 127 17a 2 61 17b 7 67 18b 12 123 19a 8 147 19b 8 46 20a 28 167 20b 5 61 20c 2 144 21 14 104 22 45 99 23 65 121 24a 22 87 24b 10 207 26m 4 0 27 37 239 28 1 203 29 23 202 30a 5 336 30b 6 263 31 14 342 32 19 577 33 49 691 34a 26 336 34b 3 154 35a 10 161 35b 8 198 36a 10 354 36b 10 559 36c 8 256 37a 3 7 37b 7 87 38m 7 0 39-40 2 95 41 7 140 42 14 90 42m 1 0 44a 1 159 45b 1 54 47m 1 0 These are numbers from game and fish I had them send me the harvest data Keep this in mind Archery hunters reported 741 kills in 2007 manditory reportation Firearm hunters harvested 10,835 deer in 2007 " this is what has been reported. 39,517 deer survays were sent out in 2007 19,108 deer survays were returned. 20,409 deer survays were not returned HOW CAN AZGFD SAY ARCHERS ARE KILLING TO MANY DEER

Well I bet if we were to tell game and fish we would buy a feeding permit of 5$'s then they would be all over it. Anyone that is interested in talking about a class action law suite e-mail me at trophyhunts@wardsoutfitters.com I'm tired of all the bullcrap Lets get it on!!!!!!!!!!

well said lance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for the feed We use It is not corn , It's a mixture of different grains and Is 19% protein along with other essential vitamins and minerals, The fact is that the Arizona Game And Fish Department discriminates against archers. The only halfway scientific harvest data they have is archery deer harvests. because we are mandated to report harvists . I think they would be very surprised if the mandated rifle hunters to do the same, they would find more deer are taken then they think. Archers will never harvest the number of animals that rifle hunters do. but azgfd still thinks they have to limit us. Personally I'm tired of this department and the restrictions they impose on archers, A class action suit might make them think twice

I will ask where do you base your facts on about this outfitter? Did you here this at a meeting or from a game and fish officer. Just courious. I'm sure most of the people here oin this site know that the outfitter you are refering to Is me. If not then they do now. I have been feeding deer and other legal game for years And I DONT USE TEXAS STYLE FEEDERS AS A MATTER OF FACT i DONT USE FEEDERS AT ALL FOR DEER. Iwill say that we do harvest animals over feed, I dont see a problem with it. we are very selective with the animals we harvest and i will also say that the animals have gained from us feeding them almost every doe you see in areas that I have been feeding will have two fawns. last year I had one officer questioning me about the feed here at my house I told him the truth and he stated he didn't agree with baiting, two days later I had another buying the feed I devoloped so he could use it for deer also. I will say we are very successiful with our archery coues deer hunters. But I can say this even if they make feedsing ilegal, it really dosen't matter because We will still have the same success rate as if we were feeding. I'm courious as to how they are going to word the rule. I have numerious areas I hunt in the september hunts that are natural mineral spots. it seems to me if you are successiful then they want to do everything in their power to limit your success the next thing to go is game cameras , then ratteling horns , then scent attractants , then optics , the list will never end when you think you have it all figured out they'll change it. thats our good ol game and fish " the only agency that can discriminate against archers.

I also heard that this matter would not be voted on because this is a rule change and they can do that with out hunter input

I talked to Randy form archery headquarters that has been in contact with game commissioners and they are going to outlay any type of feed or salt attractant beginning in 2009. I think this should be discussed in the game and fish meetings. I asked him if he had gotten a explanation on the matter and he said he was told because they are trying to reduce success. I personally feel thats a bunch of crap success is what helps keep hunters interested in hunting there for retains hunter numbers

None of the above. Some are out of ground blinds and are bucks that clients passed. The buck that has the ripped ear is one that I stalked just to get a picture of. it was a windy day, he was bedded and I stalked to within 10 yards but couldn't get any good pictures of him because of the grass. He finally winded me , jumped up and stopped at 25 yards. I'll post that picture He really didn't know what was going on and posed for about 25 pictures as he moved away from me. The mule deer buck needs a few more years on him before my clients will consider harvesting him. I have a bunch more pictures of small bucks the hunters passed. The older buck 2x2 that you see under the ceder was at 45 yards " called in" I suggested the hunter pass him I knew we could harvest bigger. I'll post a few of the smaller bucks