LazzInc

I think I see about 129 5/8ths gross ,,,,

silent hunter ,,,,, good to hear from you ,,,,,,, no on the 1,000 yard bench rest shooting ,,,,, the company has grown too big and spare time is very hard to find ,,,,, in addition ,, I have a teenage son and teenage daughter , OUCH ,,,,,,

oh yeah, the 168gr sierra has been a stellar performer out of the Lazz Patriot and the Warbird ,,, it is probably THE most popular Lazz factory load we sell ,,,,,,

first of all, I want to thank all of YOU for allowing me to be part of this conversation ,,,,, things here can sometimes be controversial and when a man’s ego gets involved, well, things can go astray (((Ladies out there, imagine that huh ?!?!?))) ,,,, anyway ,,,,, 308nut is certainly dedicated to what he does and he uses a proven method that works for him ,,,, or at least it has worked well for him so far ,,,,,, this really boils down to two very different ways to approach the long range shot ,,,,,, 308nut and many others use relatively slow bullets, with high BCs, and use windage and elevation turrets on the scope to adjust for the shot, based upon many field calculations that are probably best left to the hand held computer devices they are using ,,,,, 1 ,,,,,, I don't like slow bullet speed, regardless of how good the BC is etc ,,,,, wind drift at 1,000 yards with my 168gr bullet out of the Warbird is FAR LESS than a 308 win shooting a 220gr bullet, ((((even though the BC of the 220gr is far superior))) because time of flight to the target is so much faster and an overall drop from boreline is only around 165" with the Warbird to 1,000 yards ,,, that the wind has less TIME to impact the bullet coming out of the Warbird ,,,, MORE than making up for the differences in bullet BC ,,,, 2 ,,,,,,,, realize that with both calibers shooting the same bullet ,,, the Lazz Warbird will still have the retained velocity at 400 yards, that the 308 win has at the MUZZLE ,,,,,,, and that turns into killing power at long range ,,, and YOU NEED THAT to be successful in the field ,,,, 3 ,,,,, I don't like scopes that use windage and elevation adjustment turrets to prepare for the long ranger shot ,,,,, the biggest reason for this is that I have NEVER seen a scope that had adjustments like that, that would return to, or adjust to these exact calculated positions, every time, back and forth without fail ,,,, especially when the scope is mounted on a high powered magnum rifle ,,,,,, 4 ,,,,, I like to sight in and actually practice at long range ,,,,, with a scope that once adjusted, never gets moved ,,,, so that my 3 mil-dot down is 710 yards ,,,, my second mil-dot down is 550 yards ,,, and my first mil dot down is 400 yards ,,, and with the center cross hair, at 100 yards, I can shoot the eye out of a prairie dog at such close range ,,,,, with a FRONT FOCAL PLANE MOUNTED mil dot reticle, so that my mil-dots are the same spacing regardless of the power setting the scope is adjusted to ,,,,, 5 ,,,,, I like to make sure that my load and rifle will shoot 5" 3 shot groups at 710 yards ,,, that it will shoot 3 1/2" groups at 550 yards ,,, and 2" groups at 400 yards ,,,,,, that is more important than all the performance calculators in the world ,,,,, THEN ,,,, as I said in my previous post on this thread ,,,, when it is time for the shot and I go to WAR ,,,, I make my mental adjustments for WIND, ANGLE and then RANGE in that order ,,,, hold the mil-dot reticle to those adjustments, get real steady and squeeze the trigger ,,,, do I shoot at our valuable game animals much beyond 710 yards ?? ,,, NOPE ,,, WHY ??? ,,,, because I do not PRACTICE much at ranges beyond 710 yards ,,,, that simple ,,,,,,, I am old and fat now and I cannot see much farther than that !! ,,,,,,,,,,,, I will be hunting into Mexico till Friday of this next week ,,,, so I will be back on line after that time ,,,,,, WISH ME LUCK ! ,,,,,,

ac guy ,,,, hey ,, at least you are bold enough to ask !!! ,,,,,,

couesDeer ,,,,,, a 5 1/2" group at 500 yards is very good ,,,,,, but I think you could get it under 3/3/4" @ 500 by switching to IMR-7828 powder, and federal 215M primer ,,, and seat the ogive of the 140gr b-tip bullet about .010" off the lands ,,,,, "IF" they will still go in the mag box seated like that ,,,,,, otherwise seat them as far out as you can, but still having them fit the mag box ,,,,, then work the load up to about 60 fps SLOWER with the 7828 than you are going now with the reloader25, to further improve accuracy while keeping an eye on pressure ,,,,,, then when you have settled on the FINAL load ,,,, then load up a hundred or so with new brass, then rotate the LOADED cartridge case necks on a concentricity gauge from RCBS to cull the ones with .002" or less run-out from the rest ,,, and use the .002" or less ammo for your long range shots at trophy game animals ,,,, if there was ever a better powder made for the 7mm magnum bore, than IMR-7828, I don't know of it ,,,,,, BTW ,,,,,, I just was at the 550 yard range this morning in my final preparation for Mexico Coues Deer hunting tomorrow ,,,,, first three shot group out of my personal Warbird ,,,,, measured 3 & 5/8 " ,,,,, no wind right at 7:00AM either, so I had a chance to correctly set my scope windage right on at 550, which is also important ,,,,, John@Lazzeroni.com ,,,,

Just think what you could do with a new super accurate lightwieght Lazz Warbird rifle ?!?!?!

308nut ,,,,,, are you going to take Lark out for some lessons ??

What kind of groups do you see at 500 yards with the reloader 25 powder and 140 b-tips ? ,,,

Lark ,,,,, ,,,and when you realize that the Lazzeroni rifles NOW are very light weight compared to 10 years ago ,,,, you might be even more impressed ,,,,, go to the side of the home page here and click on the Lazzeroni Banner ad ,,,, you will go right to the Lazz Website for the latest information ,,,,, also ,, remember, my own personal Lazz Warbird rifle is the Thumbhole model with a 25" barrel ,,, works like a champ ,,,, same for the one we built for Jim Reynolds ,, john@Lazzeroni.com ,,,,

the last time I compared the 300Wby Mag to the 300 Rem Ultra Mag ,,,,, I used factory 180gr ammo for both and factory rifles with the 26" barrel length for both ,,,, that is where I came up with the data that the 300 Ultra is ALMOST as fast as the 300 Wby ,,,, anyone else tried that exact comparison with different results ? ,,,, same thing happens when you compare the 30-378 Wby Mag to the Lazzeroni Warbird ,,,,, using 180gr FACTORY loads ,,,,, whether both have 26" barrels or both have 28" barrels ,,, the Lazz Warbird will beat the 30-378 Wby Mag by around 100 fps ,,,, handloaded velocities are a different story and it all depends upon the actual dimensions of the WBY chamber, the throat, speed of the powder used and type of bullet/lubrication etc ,,,,, the 30/378 is actually on par with the Warbird as far as velocity POTENTIAL is concerned ,,,, but the factory rifles are hindered by a poor chamber/throat design, and the big belt on the 378 case, makes it very difficult to design a mag box arrangement to hold 3 cartridges properly and make them feed flawlessly, like the Lazz Warbird does ,,,,, That is the whole reason I made the Lazz Warbird, was to go as fast as my own 30-378 Wildcat did, but without the belt and headspace on the shoulder for better accuracy potential, along with 3 in the mag box capability ,,,,,

Lark ,,,,, no problem ,,,, I need a little ribbing from time to time, keeps my head from getting too big ,,,, you will be happy to know that I am working with one of the USA'a major rifle manufacturers as we speak, to offer a reasonably priced rifle in the Lazz Warbird caliber,,,,,, I am not for certain exactly when it will happen, nor will I steal their thunder with a premature announcement ,,, but it will come ,,,, also ,,,, I need to lighten up a bit on the Ultra-mags, they really are pretty good calibers, the 300 Ultra Mag for instance is just about as fast as a 300 Wby Mag, but without the belt ,,,,, John@Lazzeroni.com ,,,,,

I don't want to sound like an authority all the time on the Lazzeroni Warbird ,,,, But I am the one who first drew the Warbird's cartridge dimensions on a piece of paper in about 1995 ,,,, John@Lazzeroni.com ,,,

yeah ,,, when they leave Jim's or my own Lazz Warbird Rifle ,,, we nick name them the "Meat-Seeking Missles" ,,,, MSM for short ,,, which is more than I can say for the gentleman who thinks his ultraMag is everything the world has ever known (Lazz Warbird just eats the Ultra-mags for breakfast)) and he doesn't even like my comas ,,,,!???! BTW ,,, they help keep my brain engaged ,,,,,

The Warbird's Nick-name is the ""MSM"" ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,