MMACFIVE

308, I think we are closer in thoughts than you think. I actually think if everything is held constant, SD, construction, form factor, etc the the BC from any caliber should be nearly the same. e.g all Nosler Accubonds with a SD of .260 should have nearly identical BCs. What do you think? ( and thats' not patronizing!)

308 nut: you said, and I quote "Also, 2 bullets that have equal caliber and form factor but have different SDs, which do you think will penetrate more? Lets pretend that one is a FMJ and one is a thinly explosive bullet. I think we can have both made with the same form factor and the same SD? Can't we? Then we have to agree that one will penetrate better then the other. So No, equal construction was not "Stated right tin the quote"! And as far as Sierra setting me straight: the 220gr 30 cal round nose has SD of .331 and a BC of .31 while the 220 HPBT MK has a SD of .331 and a BC of .629. So doesn't that actually "set you straight? My main point is that it is not accurate when a posters states they would not use bullets X because of SD. If I compare the venerable Nosler partition that has been one of my favorite bullets for nearly 50 years and recognized and one of the best penetrating bullets on the market I know I can shoot a Barnes (or eTIP, or GMX, or) that weights about 30% less and still get nearly the same penetration because of "Post Expansion SD". We could get on a tangent about BC vs Velocity, vs wind drift here if we want to go on a tangent but that was not my intention of the post. I am not Trolling. I am not telling anyone they should be shooting one bullet or another (although we have killed nearly 60 javelina, Deer, Antelope, Bighorns, Elk, and other big game animals with Barnes and have never had a single bad experience so I have complete faith in them. I also like speer, nosler, and hornady, among others. I am suggesting to not base penetration on SD alone! And 270: I kinda have to question you last statement.

1st, why do you say that the barnes will out penetrate the berger? It may in some cases and not in others. I am not trying to make this an argument between Berger and Barnes; Its just that they are kinda the extremes in construction right now. I'm just try to say that technology and changed so much over the last 50 or so years that SD does not have the meaning it once did. When all bullets were a form of cup and core a person could use SD as an estimation of penetration potential. That's not the case anymore. If all else were equal (ie construction, expansion ratio, material, etc...) the bullet with the higher SD wins. Period. Exactly, If all else is equal the bullet with the heavier SD will penetrate more. I can't not count the times I've read on these forums "don't use that 145g LRX cause it just wont have enough penetration compared to the 190 Berger...." B.S. Also, 2 bullets that have equal caliber and form factor but have different SDs, which do you think will penetrate more? I agree but you missed equal construction....I think you were implying that though? I think what you're looking at is a barnes 120 blowing through a section of ballistic gelatin where the berger might have exploded and didn't exit. That has nothing to do with SD but everything to do with construction and expansion properties. Once again I agree...I think this actually supports my theorem that "SD in and un iits-self" is worthless. SD is also a direct contributing factor to ballistic coefficient. That is part of the reason barnes bullets have such low BCs. Equal weight and form factor, the jacketed lead bullet will have a higher BC. Why? Because (among other contributing factors such as specific gravity and others) the all copper bullet has more mass which produces more air drag and doesn't weigh more to be able to offset the added drag. Which will penetrate more? That depends on how much each will expand. This statement I might have more problems with. SD is not a direct contributing factor to BC. Only if it has the same form factor (but you might have meant that too?) e.g. a cup and core 220g round nose and a cup and core 220g VLD form factor with have a very different BC. And BTW copper has less mass than a lead bullet not more. And mass does not produce more air drag; form factor does. That's why a 6.5mm 140g berger with a SD of .287 has about the same BC and SD and thier 7mm 168gr bullet. If they have the same velocities won't they have the same trajectory?

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Its too bad you've have such a bad experience with the pressure with Barnes. Since the put grooves on the and called the TSX I have never seen this. I drive them at the same velocity with about the same powder charge as conventional bullets.

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Becker is absolutely correct. A rifle does know if it is canted or not. It only matters if the scope is sighted in level and held level for all shots. Remember the barrel actually oscillates, or moves in a circular motion when it is fired. With a "good load" we are just catching the bullet exit at the same position of the barrels motion.

I have 2 VX6 3x18's. I just used the turrets as is (MOA). The new "Z-Lock" is really nice. I am converting my other scope to it. I have been shooting two VX6 3x18's and 2 VX3 4.5x14's quite a bit lately. I think the VX6's are far superior optics to the VX3's.

This may be stating the obvious but the standard CDS turret as is comes is MOA. Once you have one cut for a particular load you can still count the clicks and use it as MOA if you want.

I will go to $2400....but no lower.

I have an excellent Swarovski 80HD ATS (angled) spotting scope with 25-50x and a Snugfit case for sale. I NEED a 95! Asking $2500. I live in Flagstaff. Mike

What is the going rate for this scope?

The small scratch on the barrel of the eyepiece is the only flaw. Please ignore the dust.

See if this helps???? Mike

I've been doing more research on my asking price.....$2650 seems to be more inline? Mike

I have an excellent Swarovski 80HD ATS (angled) spotting scope with 25-50x and a Snugfit case for sale. The barrel of the eyepiece has a 1/4" scratch on it (the glass is perfect) I am asking $2800. I live in Flagstaff. Mike

The Rifle Railz is a eloquent no mod required adapter for a gun. The Loc Jaw seems redundant though? If the Rifle Railz had a row of 1/4-20 holes couldn't I just put my tripod quick release plate on it and achieve the same thing?

Last year on an Antelope hunt this guy was bragging about his 12x50's and wanting to sell his first gen Swaro 15x56. Six of us happen to meet on a hill and I set up the 12x50's next to Leica 15x56 and the Swarovski 15x56 neu on tripods. All six of us went from one binocular to the other looking at an old barn about 1 1/2 miles away under light overcast. All 6 of us ranked the 12x50's clearly number one, with the Leica's 2 and the Swaro 15x56 a distance third. I sold a pair of my 15x56 neu to partially fund a pair of 12x50's. During 5 days of October whitetail hunting my son and I kept switching back and forth between the 12's and 15's. Never once did I feel like I preferred the 15's or need the extra 3x. So, this year I sold the other 15's and a 2x doubler to help fund a new pair of 15x56 HDs. Scouting and on a 7 day bull elk hunt my son and I kept switching back and forth between the 12's and the new 15's. Never once did I feel like the new 15's were handicapped! They are far better than the 15x56 neu. There were times the extra 3x helped. Having said all that if I were only buying one I would get the12's. They are lighter, much easier to hand hold, and they have a greater field of view and have great edge sharpness. If I need that extra 3x I probably need my spotting scope.