Redbeard

Sorry, I know this is more than you asked for but I just can't help getting on my soap box sometimes. The reason why you can't shoot well at long ranges is because it's HARD. The limitations of the equipment and fine points of form really start to show at about 40 yards. Getting consitent at long range is really difficult physically/mentally and requires super fine tuning of your equipment. If you aren't practicing with broadheads you might want to see what that does to your accuracy too. It usually makes it worse. Just an example of how form makes a difference. Two years ago I was shooting (Mathews LX) frequently and getting 4" groups at 60. I haven't shot that bow much in the last year. Now I am at 4+" groups at 40. Same exact setup. I shoot the longer ranges ONLY to get confident for closer shots. I'd NEVER try to shoot an animal at 60 yards. ( Honesty edit: I've though about it and missed two at 50 but I don't plan to do it again.) There is just too much that can happen in that amount of time and distance on a live animal in a non controlled situation. If you are dead on at 40 then don't shoot past 30 at a deer 'cause you will be shaking, the wind will be blowing, the deer will be moving, and they jump the string. Seriously. I have no problems believing I can drill and elk at 40 as long as I know the range. I wouldn't shoot farther at an elk because of potential loss of penetration. When there is a little nervous coues buck in front of me I have no confidence the deer will even be there when the arrow arrives! I've had several misses from ranges between 15-40 just from them jumping the string. Really. The proof is in the video. They drop and spin. Then throw in all the other factors and it's hard to believe they can be killed with a bow. Well, I did get one about 10 years ago. Perfect broadside 15 yard shot but he jumped the string so bad the arrow went through him lengthwise from the rear! Sure I was shooting a 195fps recurve but it was only 15 yards! Think about all this before a shot and you will come unglued! I know people will want to argue this but bowhunting really starts at under 50 yards anyway. There really isn't any reason to shoot farther than 40-50 at anything. Just get closer. Sneaking closer than 30 is a real challenge though. That's what makes bowhunting fun, challenging, and more rewarding. It isn't just about killing an animal with a bow. It is about getting close. I think (IMHO) that it is easier and more fun to become a better hunter than to become a better long range shooter. I have had more success with recurves and longbows at close range than with compounds at any range. I'm shooting both trad and compound in preparation for my elk hunt this year but I'll probably hunt with the longbow. Getting less than 25 yards on an elk during the rut is reasonable. Coues deer??? I just don't now what to do with them. One good close bowhunting encounter is worth a dozen long range kills. A week after I shot that coues buck I called/stalked and killed a bear with that same recurve. It was woofing and growling at me at about 5-6 yards at the time. That may be too close but the point is I would have missed an experience of a lifetime had I shot him at 50. So my advice is keep practicing with your bow but also focus on becoming a better hunter so you can more often get a good close shot.

I just got back from Andy's house hearing the stories and seeing all of his pictures. Wait til you see the one of the second lion with its glowing eyes. It looks like somebody photoshopped it. You guys are really hot right now. How many lons have you caught in the last month? Andy was actually talking about heading back to Tucson this week to hunt. You better call him up and talk him out of it. Andy is pretty psyched to have got two in two with you guys. I warned him that his gut would hurt after spending so much time hanging out with you laughing his butt off. He said you must have ADD or something cause you never stopped entertaining him. Makes me remember the good ol' days. Hunting with you. I still crack up every time I think about all the crazy stuff we used to do. I need to hook up with you all next time you go out. I need a good laugh and I love seeing those dogs do their thing. If it snows again maybe I'll try hunting with my chesapeak bay retriever. I hear your Dad's best dog is part bird dog. Way to go man. I'm so glad you got to hang out with Andy too. He's a solid hunting partner for sure. Chris

I talked with a WM from AZGFD for two hours today. I promised not to give his name for obvious reasons but he's been with the Dept. for many years. He's as frustrated as we are. One thing he said is that the Dec. coues hunts are going to be drastically reduced so that the tags can be raised and the hunt moved to Nov. during the general mule deer season. The idea is that they can sell more tags and have a lower kill success so kill the same number of deer. The ratio is for every two Dec. tags they take away they will issue three in Nov. This applies to the Northern units mostly but they will be adding a fourth hunt in the southern units and taking away dec. tags there too. Just thought you guys would be interested. He also said that all of the BS coming out from them (AZGFD) lately is coming from the top down. The WM's input is not even asked for and most are opposed the the changes but the higher ups don't care. The WM's might as well not be doing surveys because all of the decisions are being made without their opinions. He also said that the public comments made by individuals are not given much weight. Organizations have much more influence. He suggested it is time for a change at the top of AZGFD to a philosophy that cares about big game and hunters especially since we pay the bills. He said we need to start pushing now because Duane Shroufe will be leaving in 2008 and will likely be replaced by somebody with exactly the same philosophy unless there is pressure to do someting different. Time to organize guys.

Hunter numbers are down because the deer herd is at record low levels. It's not like they just don't have enough people applying so have leftover tags. The idea is to move the hunts to a time when hunters will be LESS successful so they can get more hunters out there without killing more deer. (or elk) They are lowering their buck/doe ratio goals and their kill success goals, and any spike is considered a "buck" in their counts too. All this when the deer herd is already hurting. The idea is (I think this is the simplest but most truthful way to say it) make AZ hunts worse in terms of kill success, quality of the experience (bucks seen, number of other hunters in the field), and trophy quality so more people will be hunting and buying tags. Don't forget that the federal money that AZGFD gets depends upon the number of licenses sold. So it isn't just the increase in money from selling another couple thousand tags but it is added to by the Fed. money increase. I'm told that they just care about getting as many people hunting as possible and the quality of the hunt, kill success %, and the quality of animals taken is NOT important. Furthermore, it will be even more dangerous to be in the field and enforcement will be impossible with so many mulie and coues hunters in the field at once screwing each others hunts up etc. The reduced number of Dec. coues tags and Sept. bull tags is just setting us up for the A/B hunts and tag price increases they are proposing. It will happen once they have arranged the tags so it is clear what an A hunt is. You'll see... What is the ONE thing that AZ has had over other states that has made us so popular with NR's? Quality of the hunts and trophies. AZGFD is literally trying to ruin that with these rules. They no longer care about managing the wildlife populations and having a quality experience. Period. I dare them to say otherwise. We are entering the Dark Days of Az hunting. The things that made it worth waiting so long to draw a quality tag will be gone in a few years with this new management philosophy. I don't know if we can do anaything abaout it short of having a revolt of some kind but they know they don't need to listen to us serious hunters. They know we will continue to apply no matter what and if we don't no big deal they are counting on all of the once every few years hunters to buy tags. It is kind of supply and demand. The demand is way higher than the supply so they can jack with us and still sell out.

THe WM I talked to said that the Dept. doesn't consider "serious hunters" like us representative of "Joe Average Hunter" so you are right on the money. So why go to meetings anyway? So why do they conduct hunter surveys? Maybe that's why they ask in their surveys what hunting/conservation organizations we belong to. If we say we do maybe they throw our opinions in the discard pile? But Joe A. Hunter isn't the one who cares about the future of hunting either. They will go if they draw a tag but otherwise they will just go to the dunes or something. The Dept. needs to recognize that their future and support isn't with those guys anyway. They are not volunteering, applying for 8-10 hunts a year every year, buying archery and over the counter tags every year, turning in poachers, contributing to conservation organizations, etc. Joe A. huter is often the problem with hunting getting a bad rep. when they are seen driving around road hunting while drinking beer and tossing the cans out the window.

Sounds like you guys got this worked out. It is understandable if he thought he was meeting somebody there that he'd come up to the blind. I've been walked up on while sitting and the hunters usually see me then walk off. The folks that go ahead in sit right down are the ones that are being inconsiderate and dumb. Dumb because of the wind situation. If somebody beats you to a tank then go somewhere else. If in doubt sneak up on a tank and glass the trees etc. If there is somebody there sneak quietly away. That's the way I do it anyhow.

Are you wearing full Alberta treestand clothing? When I hunted up there and sat in a stand for 4 hours I thought I'd freeze to death. Back at camp the local boys were complaining about how warm it was and shooting their bows in t shirts. I had on all the clothes I own and insulated coveralls and those giant mickey mouse boots. I figure the weather when you were sitting here was about the same. That is brutal. You must be waiting for minnie moose to endure that.

Becker, Man I hate to hear stuff like that. Andy left me a message and mentioned some of your hunt problems. You did the right thing by leaving because it isn't worth fighting over and no deer will come in with scent blowing from both sides of a tank. It's bad enough dealing with the wind direction with one guy sitting. It is too bad so many people are so clueless, which I can at least understand as maybe they are beginners, but to also be so blatantly disrespectful and stupid is maddening. I've had morons do the same things to me in the past. My solution was to stop sitting tanks. It sucked to let them run me off but I could not handle the repeated frustrations of things like this. Keep trying though. One thing I can tell you for sure is deer will come into a tank that people frequent. Even ones right on the road. They may not come in when they can smell, see, or hear people there but I've seen deer spooked off a tank when somebody came in then 1/2 hr later they come back. Epperson's first archery coues buck was shot when it came back to a tank three hours after he had spooked it by flinging one over it's back. I was planning to sit the same tank once but some other guy showed up at the same time so I let him sit. I knew he'd get out of his tree early because his stand would get the early sun and he'd cook (Aug.) I came back a few hours later and saw him walk off. I got in my nice shady ground blind and an our later a lion tried to get in with me. He didn't seem to mind the activity either. You will not beat the wind though. If they can smell you they will hang up and not come in. I've seen that a bunch too. Stands or blinds in canyons are the worst for swirling winds. You will get a ton o' pictures then sit there for days and not see a deer. It's the wind. Good luck.

dang dude. It's bad enough sitting in a tree all day in August. Keep it up though and you will get one.

I have done quite a few skulls in my day and just finshed two more. Every time I do it I think, "How do they get all that clingy little cartilage stuff out of the nooks and crannies without spending forever picking at it." If my buddy Andy and his bugs were closer I know how it would get done but no such luck. Does anybody have a slick method to prepare european heads?

Any idea what this thing is???

The size of a deer is in the eye of the beholder. I know the deer I want to shoot when I see it and that changes from season to season, day to day, and unit to unit. I define a good buck by seeing my tag on it. Sometimes you gotta let the 130" bucks live and shoot a spike you know.

Great buck! Congrats.

I realized that letting it rot a bit helps. I need to finish these things so I'll try one boil with borax and then on down the list. In the past I've used peroxide used in beauty shops. It is more concentrated than the drugstore stuff.

Nice buck with lots of character. Congrats.

Here are some pictures and the story of My wife Janice's Kaibab mulie hunt. We did everything wrong for this hunt but it worked out right. We were both so tired this week we almost didn't go. We had hemmed and hawed around but a couple of friends talked me into it. One said, "Well if you don't go hunting you could always work on your house." The other one said, "It's a Kaibab tag you gotta go!" That was enough. We really just looked at it as a camping trip with the girls. We had planned to leave Thursday afternoon but we just slept in until Friday morning when we finally packed and headed out of town for the 5 hour drive leaving around 10 am. The odds were definitely not in our favor. We hadn't scouted. We didn't hunt until the last weekend. We brought our 4 and 7 year old kids. We left town late and got there late. I even left a full can of gas sitting at the gas station in Chino! As we finally turned off the highway onto the dirt road we met a couple of VERY nice guys from Tucson who were leaving with a nice buck. Looked to be about a 170" 4X5. They gave us some tips about what the deer were doing and told us they had seen a couple of small 3 points on a waterhole at 9am that morning. With everything against us I said, "That is good enough for us but we'd sure like to see your buck's brother." They wished us luck and we headed to find camp. I sure wish I'd asked their names now. I think we ended up camping in the same spot they had left, complete with firewood. I quickly threw up the tent while Janice got her camo on and hunting gear together. Everybody jumped in the Jeep and we raced up the road to find the waterhole they had suggested. In minutes we were there and just like they said there was a blind built about 75 yards away. We rushed Janice up the hill and I gave her a bunch of last minute instructions since she had never hunted alone before. Things like, "Don't forget to put a bullet in the chamber, make sure there isn't another deer behind the one you are going to shoot, don't wait too long to shoot." (she's famous for procrastinating pulling the trigger, "Can I shoot him now?" "Yes!" "Are you sure?" "Yes!" you get the point.) And the most important piece of advice, " If it is bigger than a spike shoot it." It was after 4 pm when I drove off with the girls. I took the girls for a ride in the jeep to see the Grand Canyon sunset and when I got back to camp I turned on the 2 way radio in case she called for a ride back to camp. About one minute later I heard my name through the static then. "He's in the pond!" I looked a Zoe and Phoebe and shouted, "She got one!" then threw the girls in the truck and raced up the road. I told Zoe, "I bet she got one of those three points." When we got there I looked over to the pond and there was a big deer and a nice four point antler sticking up out of the water! We jumped around hugging and hollering. When I pulled the deer out she said, "I didn't even know if he had the other antler." In fact she had no idea how many points or how big the deer was when she shot. Here's how that happened. After the sun went behind the hill and Janice had been sitting for all of an hour (long hunt eh?) she was getting cold so she put her noisy Gore-Tex rain jacket over her legs. She figured she'd better test how noisy it would be to move and shoot with it there. So, with the rifle on the bipod she looked through the scope through her shooting lane to the left then while still looking through the scope she panned right to the other shooting lane. To her amazement there was a buck in her scope! She couldn't believe it so she lifted her head and looked over the scope and sure enough it was real. She looked back through the scope remembering my advice, Don't wait around to shoot, and if it is bigger than a spike shoot it. So, while the buck was still drinking, she pulled the trigger . The deer just fell face first into the pond and never tried to get up. She got up to run down and see if she needed a follow up shot but it was obvious it was over. She was one excited girl. She asked if buck fever came before or after you shoot since she didn't start shaking until after. This is her third big game animal and each one went down with one shot. I was right with her for her nice coues deer and huge elk but this one she did alone. Every time she just concentrated on making the shot and did it. I wish I had such a record. This is definitely the record for the shortest hunt I've been on. Things got comical during and after the picture taking. It was dark so it was hard to know if we were getting good pictures. Besides that Zoe had to go to the bathroom and Phoebe just wanted to play in the truck. We got them to hold still for a few. After that we tried to load the whole deer into the truck so we wouldn't leave a gut pile etc at the tank. It is hard enough trying to wrestle a 250+ pound wet dead deer into a truck but Janice has severe tendonitis in one elbow so she couldn't lift with both hands. We only got so far as getting his head and neck on the tailgate with his antlers tied to hold him there. Just when we were about to give up a guy came by an an ATV and helped me lift the buck into the truck. We must have been quite a sight. Back at camp I skinned and caped the deer while Janice made dinner and the girls sat around a roaring pinyon campfire. It was perfect. I kept thinking about how this is exactly the kind of amazing/funny story my Dad used to tell about his hunts on the Kaibab back in the 60's and 70's. My stock 1975 CJ5 even helped add to the nostalgia. I wish I could tell him this story in person. He would have loved it. Unfortunately he died exactly two months prior to this day. I know he is happy we went ahead without him and he's laughing about it. I have never been lucky in hunting but if we had done one thing different or right (like leaving home on time for one) we wouldn't have met those Tucson guys so I would not have had her sitting that waterhole. Really, who would think a mature buck would come to a water tank before dark on a main road on the second week of a Kaibab rifle hunt. Of course it really wasn't me that got lucky but I'll take being married to a lucky woman as close enough. Her buck gross scores 173 and at the check station they aged him at 6-8 years. He didn't have the kind of mass you'd expect on a deer that age from the Kaibab but, WHO CARES! I am way more excited about my wife's buck than the coues I shot last weekend myself. I just get so much satisfaction seeing her succeed. Both hunts were way out of character for me with no scouting and no expectations but like they say...Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good. Friends and even tips from strangers can sure help with luck I guess. Here I was doing it the hard way all those years by finding animals myself. I'm going to have to start listening for a change. I'd like to track down the Tucson guys to say thanks. They were driving a maroon colored truck pulling a small 5th wheel travel trailer with another little utility trailer (12" wheels) behind that with their ATV. One guy was tall and thin and about mid 30's. He had a unit 33 coues tag last weekend and killed a nice two point on that hunt. His buddy who had the Kaibab tag was also in his 30's but shorter and a bit stockier. Both had light colored hair. If you know these guys let me know so I can thank them.

Actually that is THE famous Morrison Dakota longbow that has killed: A hybrid deer (genetically proven), a bear, a lion, a few javelina, a giant elk, a mulie (that I missed first ) and a nice coues deer. I'm sure there are some small game animals on the list too. I think he killed all of them with one shot too. He doesn't hunt with it... he's an outright assasin! BTW he got it for 1/2 price because it has a bent limb. I think he's doing the "Dirty Bird" dance or something.

Thanks for the kind words LB. Ditto to you.

Hey little bear. Interesting how there is a picture of you with the same background as that lion. Humm?

One time Andy and I were putting up a camera in a bear infested area. We jumped a bear about 50 yards from where I put it. When I came back the camera was busted open and I got one picture. A bear's nose at two inches.

I've heard of using borax. Sounds like a winner. Where do you buy it?

That's pretty much my technique Bullw. Minus the Bud anyhow. I've been doing a couple hours each evening after work. I tried to do my wife's elk a couple of years ago but never finished. It is dried up now but still ugly. Tines, I haven't tried borax tell me more. Beetles are the best but they need care and it is kinda stinky for awhile. Plus you don't want them getting loose anywhere near your mounted heads!

Thanks 25-06. I would have thought it was a total joke until I noticed the "angry" face at the top of the post. Notice he has exactly one post which means one of two things. Either he is a regular user who wants to take a shot anonymously so reregistered under a new name (I hope not) or somebody who just registered to stir up trouble because he can't stand to see somebody else happy (more likely). I just got done boiling out the skulls for both of our bucks (what a pain). It isn't so bad since I get to really look over the antlers. I forgot how much I used to enjoy fondling antlers and looking at every detail. Both of our deer still have bit of velvet on them. This season has helped get me excited about hunting again. My wife is more excited too. Funny how just being lucky can do that to you. I guess that's how the casinos get rich.

Highroller, Surely you are joking or just an onery (perhaps jealous, angry?) person. First off I hate to ruin a picture by putting an ugly tag on the antlers. So, second, just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. Third if AGFD wants to ruin the memories of an entire family of an excited 44 year old mother of two by writing her a ticket for not being able to see her tag in the pictures, send 'em over.

Yeah, I think we give deer too much credit for being smart sometimes. Really they have some basic survival instincts but they are NOT conscious like people. I have shot many animals where their buddies just kept on feeding right around the dead one. Gut piles attract coyotes and deer don't like to come to water with a pack of coyotes present or if they smell them they will be nervous so I think that is reason enough not to leave them there if possible.