ghost

Lark- I was just answering your question by giving just a taste of those type of statistics. I dont think people come here to research that stuff but I do think its important that people in the community are aware of the reality that these things do actually happen thats all. I have a remington 700 .243 that I have had since I was 14 stock as a rock with a fixed 4x scope, but a good handload for it. It shoots sub moa. I learned alot from that rifle that transfered nicely to a very fancy setup that I had the opportunity to play with for a few years. I guess the reality is that just about any gun out there is capable of pretty impressive stuff in the hands of a proficiant shooter. And shooting proficiancy has no magic to it....thousands of rounds plus thousands of hours...thousands of dollars can factor in but you cant buy ability. I no longer hunt with my .243 and its just kinda my play gun now. I like my 300 WSM in a bedded thumbhole stock with a leupold scope mounted in leupold rings on an EGW base (only company that made what I needed). It shoots just fine and I would take a shot comfortably out to 700yds with it. I also have trouble seeing the need to shoot much farther then that...I generally think I can get within 700yds....Its a deer they dont have binos or counter sniper training....or maybe they do....on second thought, Im convinced the big ones do. I do think that comparing a sniper rifle to a hunting rig is not really an accurate comparison simply because they have very different purposes. Not to say that one can't function well as the other but Ive never seen wildlife wearing armor of any kind and returning fire and I have yet to shoot at any game that my accuracy had human life hanging in the balance, and those variables can definately affect your accuracy. What makes a "sniper rifle" a "sniper rifle" is the title of the person holding it. For the point of the question that started this thread Id say buy a rifle in a cal that will meet your needs in a make and model that fits you and you are comfortable with. Then mount a decent optic on it, there are alot of good ones out there for less then Nightforce or S&B. Find a load that works then practice practice practice....left handed, right handed and every weird unnatural shooting position you can think of....Then if you plan to retrieve the rifle from your carry system quickly set your rig up and practice retrieving your rifle quickly. Its all about comfort confidence and practice. And thats all just one guys opinion.....and we are all entitled to our own. I have my experiences to base my opinions on but so does everyone else.....Im no expert. Five pages into this I dont even know who started it any more but theres alot of great info in this thread.....read it all and formulate your opinion.

Lark, Just for the record....I know of three LE sniper shootings in the past seven years, two were in the past 18 months and thats just one agency in AZ. The reality is that media reports police shootings and often do not get the full info on who did the shooting. Public perception around snipers is kinda messy and alot of people dont like the idea that there are "trained killers" patroling their neighborhoods. There is a common misconception about snipers and what their job is and believing that LE snipers and military snipers operate in the same manner. A sniper is alot more then a highspeed rifle....there are thousands of hours of training and multiple aspects to the discipline. When referencing the rifle a sniper uses one must realize that they are out to complete an objective and their rifle is a tool that they have. However, they can and will complete their mission with whatever is necessary...it might be a bolt gun, handgun, M4 whatever......or more often then that in LE incidents, it is done with good optics and some form of communication. A snipers job is more observation that shooting in a lot of cases. In regars to this thread, there are a lot of things that can be done to a rifle that can improve its accuracy.....the most often overlooked thing is improve the shooter.

Asking what unit is a fair question and a great conversation starter...I ask frequently. Im no expert but I would wager that in 2009 there were more then one quality buck taken from every unit that had a coues hunt in it. That said, my question is this, What difference does it make if someone knows what unit you killed in? Check the regs and the success rates I promise you were not the only one hunting that unit or the only one that filled a tag. Share the info...this sport is one that tends to intimidate new folks as it is and if they get shot down or scoffed at when they ask for help it turns them off. I say if you really know your unit you probably have multiple spots....take a new hunter with you...let them see deer or maybe taste success...then in the future you never know they might be willing to give you some info..

having had the opportunity to look through most big name optics (Swaro, Zeiss. Leica, Schmidt and Bender, Night Force, Leupold etc. etc.) in the field and comparing the Vortex Kiabab 15x56 to my Swarovski 15x56 on tripods next to each other looking at the same mountain at the same time I would have to say the Vortex Kiabab's are great bino's. They are lighter, the clarity and light gathering capability are to close to compare and the price is fantastic. Some say you get what you pay for, I believe if you can find a relatively new company with a good product you can get a high quality product before it becomes popular and the price goes way up. There is no substitue for quality optics and I think the Kiababs fit the bill. Just my opinion.