donniedent

***Note*** everyone should take a look at the new topic called "Whats going on in 10 this year" Interesting read. thanks for posting it Elkaholic. Whats my take on the posse/group thing? I don't really know what to think. The one thing I do know is if you need an army to hunt a bull elk, you're not much of a hunter in my book. Its another one of those things that isn't illegal but chickensh!t all the same. As for the radios, the only thing thats going to stop that is for G&F to make yet another law. I hate to say it because I think we have enough laws but when its abused by some it ruins it for everyone. Its really unfortunate because radios and cell phones can be good tools for staying safe and keepiing tabs on people you're hunting with but when guys are using them to guide people into animals... it should become illegal. It completely takes "fair chase" out of the equation. Its against the law in Wyoming to use a radio to aid in the taking of a big game animal and for some reason I thought it was here as well. I'll have to go back and look. If its not, it should be and if it is, G&F needs to have a more strict enforcement policy.

Well, add another story of BS happening to hunters up in 10. I was excited about our 10 late rifle tag, now I'm getting a little concerned.

So what of he posted a link? That means nothing, I could have done that! Why don't you offer something to the discussion other than "Wait till my buddies get here, you're gonna be sorry!" You sound like somebody's snot nosed kid brother. What do you think about the influence of guides on hunting? What do you think about two hunters going after a wounded bull? If you know the whole story, did he in fact know the bull was wounded? This isn't a school yard and we're not scared of your big brother coming to beat us up! Offer something more than stories about crows please!

Nice bull! I'm guessing 330"ish

Haaaa...lol

"hope you have better luck the rest of the season and hope these other fellers butts grow shut." I think that statement is my absolute favorite! I didn't go back and read through to find who said it but it sounds a littl like Lark. And THIS one is probably the best rebuttle to one of my comments. "I believe an ethical guide should say he has no interest in being part of such unethical conduct. Now some will say the client is always right and that he has paid the guide to do as he asks, but to that I say bs! A guide or outfitter should not check his ethical standards out the door simply because his client has none. "

Incredible bull. Congratulations

I've probably had the biggest mouth on this subject but I think I'm ready to sit back and wait for the whole story. It should be a good one. Can't wait to hear the other side of this one.

Yep, thats the whole point isn't it? Your friend sounds like someone I'd like to know is in the same woods as me.

I gotta say I really hope so. It would be nice to hear that they didn't do all they were accused of. That would be awsome. I've eaten crow many many times. I'm wrong alot and if I am, I'll be the first to say so. It still wouldn't change my opinion on how this whole thing went. Its still a common occurance for hunters to fight over animals. Its still common to hear about guys being bullied around on public land. If this whole saga accomplishes anything, I hope it shows people that the trophy isn't the goal of the hunt... the hunt is the goal of the hunt. I have nothing against hunters wanting to do the best they possibly can. What I do have a problem with is when it is at the cost of fellow hunters. Craig spelled the story out very clearly and with great detail, I really don't see how the main points of the story could be much different that what he told but hey, stranger things have happened. ***EDIT*** Let me add something else. I only have 270 or so posts but I have been coming here for 7 years. Nobody has a problem with the fact that you have 6 posts. I think the issue some have is that it seems that you've only joined the site to deffend the actions of others. This is a discussion forum and this is a very important topic that absolutely needs to be discussed. It is unfortunate that we have not heard from the second party at this point. There have been some, inculding me, that have used strong words. But I think what you're hearing is an overall discust with the direction hunting seems to be going. We all have stories of things like this and I think as a community and a culture... we're done! This kind of crap has to stop!

You come on here with "6" posts - no introducion as to who you are - obviously defending a "group" of hunters who been accused of "misdealings".. And tell us to stop - enough- quit the postings of discussions and opinions - baddering - we have a known member posting his personnel experinces - why would the g$f be involved if there was not some truth to accusation/seriuosness of situation - the recording is a bonus. i think it was just the verbal agreement to let them hunt 2 days "unmolested" these are FACTS and not hearsay - my word against yours- from 2 parties - when the g$f is standing witness! if pictures where taken of a bloody arrow - a hit high on the shoulder/lung area which produced a blood trail - Obviuosly anyone looking thru binoculars would be able to "ID" the bull as already having been shot! for the record - if this "GROUP" did 1/2 of what has been stated -it doesn't look good , from a hunters view . we need new people on the forum and members of our site - but who are you to tell us anything as to how and what we can discuss or when to quit! Very well put.

This is a discussion forum correct???

Its a terribly sad situation. I've been paying close attention to this deal since it started. Craig seems to be an honest stand up guy and really sucks that he had his dream hunt blown by someone who cared only about themselves. They both could've been following that bull for months. They both could have spent countless hours scouting that bull. But the simple fact is Craig got to the bull first, the other party should have at least left the bull alone and let Craig attempt to finsh his hunt. Instead, they got greedy and competative and stopped seeing the bull for what it was, a bull elk someone else shot. You see, money isn't the issue, guides aren't the issue... they are just tools. They are used, by some, to get whatever they want. I don't blame guides for this, if there wasn't a demand... they wouldn't be there, plain and simple. The demand is the issue! The almighty trophy... fame, mag articals, maybe some free gear, your picture on a broadhead package. It all boils down to recognition. These guys want to be somehow recognized as great acheivers in the world of hunting. Now hunting is no longer a sport but a means to an end.... recognition.

That was great... thanks Richard!

I'm sorry the money part of my post was refering to what you were saying not the guide part, sorry if I mixed the two. You are wrong, no where does it say "money is the root of all evil". It says "the LOVE of money is the root of all evil". Would you ever call a baseball bat evil? Probably not! And money has NOTHING to do with what happened. I make a very good living and I work hard to do so but I hunt strictly DIY. So you're saying because I have money my ethics are now somehow corrupt? The last deer I shot was a spike! I was out for meat and meat only on that hunt. But... according to your logic because I make a good living I throw my ethics out the window? That is retarded thinking... did you vote for Obama because he thinks the same way. And... uses class warfare to do so. It does strike a nerve with me because anytime theres a discussion like this, someone always pipes in about the rich guys and guides. No you didn't mention guides but it usually goes hand in hand. Work on your thinking a little bit and look at the true issue.... the second part of your first post where you hit the nail on the head... and guys without alot money are the same dang way!

Are we really gonna start the class warfare buisness. This has nothing to do with how much money someone has. The only guy that we know for sure had a guide was Craig. It was never stated that the Bowtech guy had a guide, it was only stated that he had a group. Guides are not the issue guys, the issue is the true motivation of alot hunters these days. Guides provide a service. Ask any guide and he will tell you the hunter has the last call, if he wants to pull the trigger on a rag horn its the hunters choice. Its also the hunters choice to hold out for a 400" bull. If Bowtech was being guided, he could have stopped the whole thing with one word as soon as he saw that Craig shot and wounded the bull. Money, guides blah blah blah... it has zero to do with it. If hunters weren't willing to pay trophy fees it would be a non-issue! Guides provide a service plain and simple. Its their job to give you what you want. I guess when you have more money your ethics somehow disolve??? Retarded!

Stan, you posted this same thing on the other site so I'm going to reply on both sites. Here is a copy of what I replied on the other site. "Nuke a thread where no names have been mentioned? The closest thing to personal info was a licence plate. All you really have here is hunters sharing thier opinions on a messed up situation. And AZ402, if you haven't read any of the posts, how do you know what has been said or if there have been accusations? Because there were probably no laws truly broken, this is a chance for us as hunters to police our own. If we don't stand up and say what we, as an American culture, think is appropriate and not appropriate who will? There are laws that govern how we are expected to act in the field according to the law but there are no laws that say how we should act as a culture. We set our own standard. We police our own. The majority says what is acceptable and not acceptable. They teach ethics in Hunters Education but past that we are left to our own devices. If sportsman don't have a venue, like this, to share our concerns about the direction our sport is going then what will happen? What will happen if there are not voices to hold back the tide of those seeking to take advantage of our wildlife for profit? I do NOT think guides are the problem here guys. They fill a need. If I look to my left on this page right here I see a long list of reputable guides that have proven over many years that they love what they do and do it ethically. Lets not make this about guides. The problem is our own need to fill some hole in ourselves that says "If I shoot a record bull I'm more of a man". Should we NOT strive to do our best... NO! Should we strive to do our best for our OWN gratification? Absolutley! Should we strive and work for that giant bull so that others can tell us how good we are? NO!!! We should, as a culture, teach others that this a life of self-fullfilment. We deem what is a trophy in our own eyes an strive for that goal. We need to stop basing our personal value on what other think of us, and start basing it on what we think of ourselves and teach our kids that same value! The only rule that was deffinately broken in this situation was the Golden Rule. Heres the deal brothers, if we aren't careful we will start to see game and fish start a lottery for guides on hunts as well, to limit how many guides can work on a certain unit... You don't think it can happen? Let this crap keep happening and see what they do! Let the wrong person get messed with on a hunt, say a commissoner, and see if things don't change! Let a senator or congressman have a hunt ruined by this crap and see what happens. Remember what Harry Reid did to boil George Taulmans dreams of no non-resident cap? Mark my words, if we do not police our own, the government will do it for us!"

Good to hear it. I made it 2 years in Wyoming before I realized it... I think you're smarter than I am. But then again, Nebraska and Wyoming are 2 different places.

Hey just wondering if anyone on here has a trailcam hung in 3c. We were camping/scouting off the Rim road/FR300 over the weekend and my stepson and I found a trailcam hanging on a waterhole just north of the rim. The waterhole had bear sign on it and I'm sure that cam has pictures of it. Normally I wouldn't bother posting this but my Fiance and I glassed up a beautiful boar 400 yds from that water hole and it was a first for her and I'd love a copy of the pictures that cam has on it. I'm sure its the same bear. I'm not going to give a location on here so if you think this cam might be yours send me a PM and I'll give you a general location. Again, I would love to have pics of the bear... he was awsome!

I love that picture. That guy is getting it done by whatever means possible! Reminds me of what our D.I.'s always told us back in Marine Corps boot camp... "Adapt and Overcome"

Sitting water is by far the best way to hunt desert bucks in August. If there are deer, there is water somewhere. You just have to find it. If there aren't any tanks, they are drinking from a seep somewhere in a wash. Now, thats not to say they aren't going a couple days between hitting water and the water is very limited but there is water if there are deer. They will also travel quite a ways for water. The cool thing about your situation and where you are hunting is that if the water is very limited the deer are probably only hitting one or two water sources which means if you find the water, you'll get to see every deer in the area by watching the source. What i would do is get out early in the morning and start walking the major washes where you hunt. Pay close attention to the walls of the wash. You may have to walk for miles to find it though so be prepared. Another trick is if there are any cattle in the area, scout them. They water everyday and won't be far from it. Spot and stalk not only sucks in this heat but it can be a little dangerous. Snakes are still out there in droves. Hope this helps and good luck finding that water source.

A while back I was hunting the late archery deer hunt in 21. I was done for the evening and headed back to my truck. I get about 60 yds from the truck and I look to my left to see a small Javalina feeding about 20 or so yds away. I watched for a minute and I remembered someone telling me Javi's would come to a predator call. Well I didn't have a call on me so I decided to do a quazi donald duck sound out the corner of my mouth with my hands cupped for tone changes. Yeah... well thought out right? I hit my little call and all of the sudden 9 or 10 of those stupid things come out of the scenery like a bunch of snipers that decided to show themselves and they're all headed for me!! It didn't take them long to get to me because not one was more than 30 yds away when I hit my call. As these idiots are getting closer I thought "Are they gonna freakin stop?" Then I got the panic! I threw my hands in the air waving and yelling "stop pig stop". I ended up with three of those stupid things surrounding me at no more than 2 yds! Well, they stopped for a split second, realized I was a human and bolted the other way. I stood there for a second with my heart pounding a bit... then I started giggling to myself. Being the tremoundous intellectual that I am, I thought "I'm gonna do that again". But this time I decided to make a noise that they were making in conjuction with my Disney call. So I start the Donald duck then switch to the barking noise they were making. Now... thinking back on my decision to do this sequence of calls, I realize that in the act of having fun, we as humans sometimes put our ankles in danger. It didn't take but a few seconds and I had pigs screaming at me but this time it was the whole crew and they were disinclined to stop at hand waving and yelling. My ankles weren't actually compromised due to the fact that I was high stepping like a reciever celebrating a touchdown and looking back they were only on my heels for a few seconds but they made a lasting impression on me that day. I don't know now many were on my heels and I don't really think it matters, they made their point quite clear. I made it back to the truck unscathed but a little wiser. I have since refined my technique and its a great way to get the kids an up-close look at Javalinas.

Cool map man!

Yep, a Darwin candidate for sure!!! Negligent discharges absolutely do happen.... if you're negligent, you idiot!!! Playing cowboy shooter with a semi-auto isn't very wise either.

They put that idiots statements on the radio up here in Phoenix all the time. It amazes me he still has been taken out and burried up to his neck in an ant hill.