donniedent

So I was thinking about all those stupid wind generators they are gonna be putting up in 10 and came across this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=c3FZtmlHwcA Also read and artical that describes fires and that these things malfunction and cause fires. http://bangordailynews.com/2011/06/29/opinion/forest-fires-and-wind-turbines-the-danger-no-one-is-talking-about/ Here's my take. Obama is outta there in 2012. We're gonna get a fiscal conservative in there and I can promise they are gonna ramp up domestic energy production and probably open the floodgates for coal, oil and gas. What happens with these dumb turbines then? 1 turbine only produces enough energy to cover the carbon footprint of 1 family. And how many of us are going to have to look at these stupid things. And... whats the risk gonna be in Arizona of forest fires if one of these things catches fire? I don't know, doesn't seem even remotely close to worth it! ***EDIT*** Little side note for you. They are going to be treated as occuopied buildings. That means no discharge of a firearm within a 1/4 mile.

412" bull posted on another local forum, not a "monster" site but there is a link to the forum on a "monster" site (hee hee hee). Just for all you guys that love to see huge bulls! No clue what unit its from. ***Edit*** Thought I was on a trail of a story and it didn't add up so I deleted what I posted.

Lark, I always love your posts. I think the big one is a pretty common goal for all of us, but what lengths will some go to get the big one. I don't think Law vs. Ethics was the best title for this topic honestly. My goal was to get a really good discussion going about the "state of the woods" so to speak. My family has two big hunts coming up, a junior cow hunt in 3c and a late bull tag in 10. I gotta be honest, these stories I'm hearing aren't very comforting. I haven't hunted Elk in Arizona in I think 9 years. The last thing I want to deal with is a bunch of arogant turds! I sure as heck don't want my kids to ever witness the kind of things that are happening out there. Is there anything on Gods green earth that we can do as responsible sportsman to help slow this attitude machine that hunting has turned into. I'm mean at my house I can make sure my kids know the difference between right and wrong. Beyond that, we're all subject to however someone wants to try and treat us in the woods. I've always looked at my passion for the outdoors as an escape from what this world is becoming, now its turning into the same self-serving, I want, what I want, when I want it, toilet of a society I spend my daily life in. Don't mind to sound so negative... sorry.

Well Justin, just like my great grand dad used to say, that's the sh!ts! What I will say though is that guides are as individual as the rest of us and just like the majority of hunters are good people, from my expirience, guides are the same. Intentions were pretty evident in your description of the encounter. I'm sorry your hunt went bad. Its unfortunate to hear any story of a bad hunt. Kinda bums me out to be honest. Its a sad state of affairs when a G and F guys has that kind of response for you and its deffinately not the kind of conditions a guy should ever expect from any hunt and especially one you have to wait so long to draw. If I were you I would remember one thing though, anybody could have pulled a stunt like that, just so happens it was a guide and his client. What is sad is that the client probably felt somewhat justified due to the amount he had to spend to pay that guide. Hmmm... That just sucks man, really sorry that happened to you.

Great posts and thank you for posting guys. So what happens when others (increasing IMO) negatively effect your expirience in the field because of their lact of respect for others? What should our reaction be? As a whole I believe that sportsman are one of the most ethically and morally sound groups in society but what happens and what do we do when that begins to degrade?

Great response!!! I didn't take it that way at all. I didn't open this topic for a bash session. I opened it to hear exactly the kind of response you posted! Again, excellent post. I personally believe there are gaps in where the law ends and personal responsability begins. I do not believ changing any laws or creating more is any kind of answer. That being said, I also think that as the "trophy" hunting movement progresses, we will see an increase in conflict during hunts. I do not believ it will be long before one of these conflicts results in a tragedy. When that happens, all heck will break loose. The greenies and animals rights people will go bananas and I think we'll see the kind of changes that every hunter regardless of ethical stance would hate to see. My question would be how do we stop or even curtail such conflicts?

Awsome job guys... can't wait to see more episodes!

I started another thread so we can discuss this kind of stuff in general. http://forums.coueswhitetail.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=27340

Well, I think this topic has passed joke status and needs to die. I think there some good points made here but I'm doubting we'll hear from the other side or see a pic of the bull. If I were "Bowtech" I sure as heck wouldn't come on here and I deffinately wouldn't post a pic. I'm gonna keep popping in to see if he actually does respond but other than that I'm done. Good talking to you housewives!

Hey, there you are! I said I could be wrong! Just throwin sptiballs man, where's your dad?

I think you nailed it. Same feeling I had.

Interesting little note for those really watching this closely. Richard and couesnaz have not posted in a while. I wonder if they were asked to stop posting by the "group". Might be wrong, they could have just gotten bored but it is interesting all the same.

Hee hee hee. Funny

Coues Krazy, couldn't agree with you more partner. But, the loophole that one might use in this situation is the law. Law basically says that the kill shot tags the animal. Whats unfortunate is that stuff like this is going to happen until ethics change. Trophy fees, magazine artical deals, sponsorship deals... it a money game. Guides are going to push now more than ever to get the trophy animals for better tips and trophy fees because I'm sure their bookings are way down, they have to make up for it somewhere. Its hard to blame them, its how they feed their families. Not to mention a 400" bull on the first page of your website isn't bad advertising. Pretty easy to see why this stuff happens. People will do whatever they have to do (in alot of cases), to make money. Theres a very thin line and while most of us, if not all of us would agree that chasing an animal that another hunter just wounded is wrong, plain and simple, there are those out there that would use the law to take advantage of a situation. SirRoyal, I'm with you on this one sir. I can't imagine what "Bowtech" can say in his own defense to negate the fact that he bumped a bull, wounded and pursued by another hunter. Like I said before, if he didn't know the bull was wounded when he drove past Craig, then he knew very soon after. And if by some slim chance he didn't know that bull was wounded before be bumped the bull, he dang sure kenw when G&F was called. The part that probably gets me the most is he knew for a fact the bull was wounded when he promised to give Craig two days and he waited till G&F left to go in after the bull again that same day. That is BS! You can explain away any other part of that story but this last part really chaps me, no excuse for that crap! Oh and if by chance we hear that it wasn't actually him that went back in to find the bull and part of his group... thats even worse because the chickensh!t excuse would be "I didn't go after it they did." and its backhanded and shady! Elcoholic , I think the bull is still alive, if it was a single lung, high lung shot theres a good chance that bumping that bull ensured his survival. Only possible bright spot on this fiasco of a story. Donnie ***EDIT*** P.S. I'm thinking I might open another discussion on "The Campfire" to continue a general discussion about hunter ethics. I would like to give the other party in this situation a chance to tell his side of the story on this thread of he so chooses. I think if we continue this discussion while its still fresh we can come to a general concensus among ourselves and maybe come up with some ideas on how to change this from opinions to policy. Anybody interested???

Yeah, unfortunatly I think I'll draw another elk tag before we hear both sides of this one...... RON WHITE... No touchbacks!

Not soon enough... my A.D.D. started kicking in about 2 days ago. I do believe BigMoqui is right though. If the "group" ever does get on and tell their/his side, someone will end up carved up on a local public forum. Don't know who but someone will. I really have less of a problem with the way the "group" supposedly acted than where hunting as a whole is going. I mentioned on the other site that I can see how things could get sideways when you have two hunters going after the same bull. The fact that this is a common occurance bothers me more than anything. The stories Lark told are funny as heck but alarming at the same time. I think, as I said before, that 90% of the guys here would accept defeat and help Craig find his bull. Maybe there was a reason they didn't, maybe there were other things that occured to piss the "group" off. We won't know till we hear their side.

If your kid is anything like mine he won't sit that long without going crazy. I would wait till 16 or 17 to do the hang out in the meadow thing. In all likelyhood your gonna have him up at the buttcrack anyway and by 10 he'll be ready to eat and catch a few z's. You want him to be fresh come 3 o'clock. Take him back for a bite and a nap.

Oh man what a nice bull. Huge congrats man... great job.

couesaz... You're not going to answer me are you? You jump up here, defend one side who, by the way, we don't get to hear from yet. You don't have an opinion that you're willing to share. You dance around the true issues. Are you Obama's press secretary? You're Jay Carney aren't you?

Dude... it seems a little funny to me. SEEEEE, they posted next to each other again! There you go I said it... happy there buddy? Honestly, I never thought you guys were the same, I was just the guy holding the stir stick in a big pot of... of... Scat. Yeah I can say that word here. And you are sooo right, I'm going crazy to hear from the other side on this one. I really do hope they post their side and as I said before I have no problem being wrong and if I find out I am in the wonrg here I will be the first to admit it. Now yell at your son in the other room to answer my freakin questions!

Who said you threatened anybody??? Oh you're talking about the the exageration I made in reference to you saying wait till they get back from the hunt... eating crow buisness. Oh ok. No I made that little bit up to needle you a bit. It was an exageration and kind of a joke. You do sound a little "school yard" in your responses but I'll leave it alone. "What I do know is both parties involved know the real truth, and at the end of the day that's all that really matters." You're right in a sense... I guess... but I think it is a great topic of discussion. It has become a common occurance from what others have said and I think what really happened matters to us all. I think we as hunters have a say in what happens on public land. Its our land. And if policy needs to be changed as far as game laws go, it will be hunters that eventually push to make that change. Why do you think game and fish puts those surveys out online. They want our input. Well, situations like the one we're discussing have a bearing on what we as a group of hunters think. Are there changes that need to be made? How long before something like this escalates and someone gets shot? Will it be worth discussing then? Your opinion matters just as much as mine and while I do tend to be long winded and opinionated, I would love to hear your opinion on the questions I asked you. But... you will NOT engage in a discussion with me and honestly that tells me more about what is really going on than anything you could possibly type. Thanks dude!

Couesnaz and Richardoutwest, you guys seem to pop in and out of here around the same time everyday... I think YOU are the same person!!! NO.... WAIT... I don't care! Again, you both come to defend but offer no input of your own(Richard did a bit at first). Do you have a mind of your own Couesnaz or are you a "bowtech" fanboy? I'm surprised you're not out helping him. Maybe you didn't make the cut...maybe? Back to the topic at hand. Couesaz, all BS aside, what is your opinion on the subjects I asked you about? Will revealing your opinion somehow betray a friend that is still in the field? Do you think it is ethical to chase a bull, with the intention of tagging that bull, that has been wounded and is being tracked by another hunter? Simple question... I DARE you to answer!

And the crowd goes SILENT. So whats the deal COUESNAZ? Nothing constructive to offer? Nothing to say? I'd love to hear your opinion on the questions I asked you.

Yeah, kinda nervous about the late bull tags we have!

We'll still hunt. I'm not in any dilemma. I just don't to run into this kind of crap. Me and the woman will find some out of the way place to avoid all this kind of crap. Lark, I honestly don't want to see any more laws but if something is being abused, it needs to be dealt with. I have radios and always carry one but I don't use for hunting, just for safety. As far as animals going in the books... I absolutely agree. Problem is, some so called hunters have no problem being dishonest to get their bull in the books. Its a shame. I guess none of this will ever get any better. Just sucks.