sjpitts

I have wanted a boat to use a Lee's Ferry for a while. A long while. In fact, I hiked 50 miles through Paria Canyon with scouts in 1982 or so, and we came out at Lee's ferry. I remember seeing fishermen pulling trout out that were bigger than I had ever seen-- by a factor of 2 or 3. I have wanted to fish there ever since. So 40+ years later I finally bought the shell of a boat that I think might work. It is a 90's Alumacraft. 16 feet long. But no motor. See picture below. The boat has a rated capacity of 5 people and 1240 lbs. And the recommended horsepower range is between 15-45HP. I would like to be able to take me and a couple of my friends or adult kids all the way up river, and maybe even take a little camping gear if possible. I would also to be able to use it on the mountain lakes when I get the time--- those that are restricted to electric or 9.9 hp motors. And I would like to keep the boat as light as possible-- since I don't have a lot of horsepower in my tow vehicle. My first idea was to just buy a 9.9 HP motor that I can also use on mountain lakes and go for it. However, I am a little worried that 9.9 won't be enough to get me and my friends upriver. My second idea is to get an older 2 stroke motor in the 15-25 HP range. One that might even be light enough to easily remove or swap out for 9.9 or smaller when I want to. But even then I am little worried. I see that NPS requires 25HP or more when the water flow is high. In either case I would probably convert the boat to tiller steer, just because it is simpler and easier. So does anyone have any thoughts and recommendations for this? Thanks Jared

CouesPursuit-- so I did some online research on outboard motors and I read a lot of good things about the 80s-90s era Evinrude/Johnson two strokes like the one you have. Do you like the motor? Anything you don't like? Any problem getting parts to keep it running? The 40HP like you have seems to be pretty common and not too heavy, but there are also a lot of 50HP and higher out there.

What is the fun in that?

1. I think you are right about not removing a working console. I will take a closer look at the structural integrity of my console and existing steering set up. 2. I am not sure what you mean by a CNC? 5. That is good to know. It seems like a flat bottom boat would be slightly preferable, but I am glad to know that this will work. I like this boat overall.

Thanks for the link. I spent some time reading some threads-- very interesting---those Alaska guys are serious about their river boats.

So as I said above, I have not really done anything on this project other than some boat cleanup and stalking Craigslist for outboard motors. But I am starting back up with the hope to have this done by early spring. Based on everyone's recommendation I have decided to go with a larger motor and not worry about trying to make this boat work for mountain lakes. I really want to be able to get three people and camping gear up the river. So based on this I am going to be looking for engines between 25HP-60HP. With that being decided I have a bunch of questions for the Lee's Ferry experts 1. Console Steering vs Tiller-- the boat currently has a console for steering, and it even has a steering cable of unknown origin. But the condition of the console is a little sketchy so my original idea was just to remove console and go with a tiller outboard. But now that I am going with a larger engine I am not sure anymore. Looking at the example boats I can see that CouesPursuit has a tiller and HuntnTAT2 has a steering console. So does it really matter? Tiller seems to be simpler to set up and maintain-- but it also seems like it would be easier to see where I am going with a console, but I have never driven a boat on a river so maybe that does not matter. Any thoughts? 2. Electric Tilt and Trim --- am I going to want electric tilt and trim on the outboard? It seems like it would be very nice, but it does add significant cost. And I am not sure if they are commonly found on the size of engines I am looking at. I know I have seen electric tilt and trim on 50HP, but I am not sure how common it is on 25HP. 3. Jack Plate to raise/lower the engine --- similar question --- am I going to want one of those? It seems like a fancy hydraulic jack plate would be very useful in shallow water. But they are also very expensive so it may not be worth it. But maybe just manual jack plate that lowers or raises with the turn of a handle? See On the Fly. I can't really tell if CouesPursuit or HuntnTAT2 has a jack plate on their boat- but they might. 4. What about a Jet Drive outboard --- I have seen a few of these for sale. But they are expensive-- more than regular outboards. And I am guessing that they are more difficult to maintain. And they are supposed to be not very efficient. So if I got a 60HP outboard with a jet drive it would really be like a 40HP with a prop. And one more big question--- 5. Do I have the right boat? My boat is nice aluminum fishing boat, but it has relatively deep V hull. I can't help but notice that both CouesPursuit and HuntnTAT2 have a more flat bottom boat-- I would call them jon boats but I am not sure if that is the right terminology. So am I going to regret trying to build a Lee's ferry boat with a V hull? Should I be looking for jon boat to build up instead? Maybe I should have started with that question Any advice is appreciated. Thanks again for the help. Jared

So here is my update-- as you can probably guess I let this project slide for a while, but I am picking it back up with the hopes that the boat will be ready by early spring. I have decided I need to replace all the decking wood, so that is going to take a while. And I still have not decided what to do about an engine. So I will have a new post on that soon.

I have always heard that swapping in a later model 3.4 is the way to the go. The 3.0 had issues, and the 3.4 solves a bunch of them. I would look into that.

Thanks that is good to know. I wasn't even thinking about the legality of it--- I was just thinking about all that extra unused weight at the end of the boat. And I assume that the same rules would apply to lakes that allow 9.9HP motors-- it is ok to have a larger motor if you don't use it?

Thanks. I had assumed that I would need a long shaft, but I am not 100 percent sure. How was 50 HP on a 16 ft boat? Is that what you would do again given the chance?

That is too bad. I didn't know the fishing dropped off that much. But in reality, I will be happy to just hang out with friends and catch a few.

Hey, thanks for the advice. I think I should follow your example. I spent some time looking at the specs for 90's era 2 stroke Mercury Outboards. The 20 and 25 HP models were 112lbs, the 30 and 40 HP 2 cylinder models were 148 lbs, the 40 HP 4 cylinder version was 177 lbs and the 50 and 60 HP versions were 207 lbs. Based on your example and these specs I think I may want to look for a 40 HP model. More horsepower for my 16 ft boat, and not that much heavier than a 20 or 25 HP. Do you agree? Next question-- when you are using your 24 v electric motor on mountain lakes, do you remove the gas motor? Or is that too much of a pain? It seems like it wouldn't be too hard with a tiller engine, but 148 lbs is still 148 lbs. And I have never done it before. Thanks, Jared

One issue is that the monument designation will likely read to a bunch of road closures. And then restrictions on target shooting like what will happen in the Sonoran Desert National Monument soon. Jared

I sent you text-- thanks, Jared

My dad has (or had) a real nice pair of Doctor Optic Noblilem 15x60B Binoculars. Unfortunately, I let them tip over on the tripod and they have never been the same. I am pretty sure they are out of alignment. Each eye looks crystal clear by itself, but when looking through both eyes it does not look right. We sent them to a place in California, paid a couple hundred bucks. They came back better, but still not what they once were. Does anybody have a recommendation as to where we can send them? Or someone local that can take a look at them? Thanks Jared

Sorry it took me so long to respond to this. We sent the Doctor Optic binocs to Dan, and he did an excellent Job at repairing them. I think they are as good as new. As near as I can tell anyway. I wish we would have sent them to him the first time-- it would have saved us a couple hundred bucks. I

Many years ago we used to hunt 32. It was a great unit. But even then, the access was limited. Today I got a AZGFD email with a notice that said a new landowner has closed the Long Hollow access point. This got me thinking and I looked at the AZGFD guide for unit 32. http://www.azgfd.gov/h_f/hunting_units_32.shtml This is some of what I found: SPECIAL NOTICE: Johnson Road off of I-10 has been closed on Private Property. There is no longer access to the Little Dragoon Mountains and Tres Alamos Wash from Johnson Road. SPECIAL NOTICE: There is no longer public access to State Trust or Forest Service lands through the Long Hollow access point. SPECIAL NOTICE: There are no public access routes on the east side of the Winchester Mountains. SPECIAL NOTICE: Due to vandalism and lack of respect for private property, public access through private lands on the Mercer Ranch (Bunker Hill Road) is now denied. SPECIAL NOTICE: Popular camping sites along lower Deer Creek Road are now closed to camping due to private property. SPECIAL NOTICE: Access to the north side of Redfield Canyon through private land on the Carlink Ranch is no longer available. I know that AZGFD tries to maintain access though voluntary agreements. But as far as I know, AZGFD has never tried to keep access open through other means. For example, has the AZGFD ever gone to court to keep a road open? I know the law is complicated, but in many cases it would seem that there would be a public easement that should be enough to keep the road open. Why not take these people to court? Or has the AZGFD ever tried to buy easements? Either from willing sellers or through condemnation? Has the AZGFD ever built new roads built around private property? I know these things costs money, but I for one would pay a little more in license fees to support things like that. Sometimes I wonder if the hunting community is conflicted on this, because some professional guides pay for the access rights, and thus are able to turn large areas of public lands into private hunting areas that they are able to make more money with. And maybe those with the money to pay for access really like the status quo. Either way, it does not seem like anything good is happening. Jared

That is really good to hear. If the AZGFD is willing, I wonder if they just need more legal ability.

I called and spoke with Dan at mountain opitcs. He seemed very knowledgeable. I am hopeful that he will be able to fix these binocs.

I heard that Remington will also rebarrel the gun to a 22mag. You just send it in, and they send it back as 22mag. That is definitely a better solution than 200 bucks. There is lots of info at rimefirecentral.com Or you could just find a 22mag barrel. That would let you keep your 17 barrel. They might be worth something some day if everyone sends them back. There is also a legitimate debate as to whether or not problem is really with the gun. I have read that ammo makers have trouble with tolerances, and that might be source of the problem. All the ammo makers now say don't use their ammo in semi-auto guns, and it is because of that Remington is offering a recall. In that case, Remington is really just being nice offering you anything at all. just a thought

Well now that I agree with. I just think we should be clear here-- the problem is with the ESA and how it is used as a political weapon, and not the Jaguar in general. Jared

So am I the only one that thinks it would be cool if Jaguars were running around Arizona? I really doubt that even the most ardent lion hunter would want mountain lions exterminated from all of Arizona. So what is the problem with trying to bring the Jaguars back? just wondering Jared

I am looking for a new pack. My brother has the Eberlestock J104 and really likes it. I was under the impression that the J107 was the new replacement for the J104. But I just saw an outdoorsmans.com ad that had both being listed as available. The J107 is at $329.00, and the J104 is at $249.00. Looking at the ads, the packs appear to be very similar. They both have the same size capacity and rifle scabbard. It does look like the suspension is different, but I am not sure how. And it looks like the J107 has a removable top fanny pack and more hydration pockets. So is the upgrade to the J107 worth the price difference? I don't care too much about the fanny pack. But if the suspension is improved that might be enough of a difference to justify the cost. Any help is appreciated. Thanks Jared

The Tonto Forest has posted maps of their proposed changes to the road system in Tonto National Forest. http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/tonto/travelmgt/ You can download individual maps and see the changes. Those roads in red are being closed, those in purple are closed to the public. I like to hunt unit 23, and took a quick look at the maps around Young. They seem to be proposing to close a lot of roads. And even more troubling, a bunch of roads are being labeled as "administrative"-- which I guess means that only the Forest Service, the Ranchers, and their buddies will have access to those roads. They are having public meetings about this-- starting tomorrow. Jared

If you read the FAQ, it says that all the purple roads are going administrative roads, and that they will not be included on the official map. This means if they catch you on one of those roads they can give you ticket, even if the FS and the ranchers use the same roads. And my point was that many of these roads now labeled in purple have been open for a long time-- and the forest service is not admitting that they are changing the status of these roads-- if they were admitting that, those roads would be highlighted in yellow. Jared